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chloe123

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Hello, I'm new here. Not sure if I'm doing it correctly. I just wanted to know what people can tell me about how they'd interpret 44 lines 2 and 3. My question was in reference to a potential boyfriend. I'd appreciate any advice. I can't find the interpetations for the lines anywhere. Thank you. Chloe.
 

themis

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Hello Chloe,

Sounds like initially all's well, or was well between you. Therefter things went awry/petered
out - or will ...
I think the picture described by the IC may aptly sum up the situation or what will ensue.
Fear not, thereafter things may sort themselves out. Best not to keep your hopes up.
If there's no fault on your part (Line 3), I suggest you let go. If things don't work out, it's not
meant to be. Should the situation improve, it'll do so in its own time.
"Everything comes gradually and at its appointed hour".

Do consult free online translations of the IC: Hilary's, LiSe, Legge, Wilhelm. I'd suggest
becoming familiar with at least two or three versions whenever casting, thereby you'll gain
a fairly clear picture and understanding of the message conveyed. In this instance, IMO
Hex.44 represents mutual attraction and possibly the impression of yourself as a strong woman.

Hex. 44 Coupling
The situation described by this hexagram is characterized by the magnetic attraction of primal
Yin and Yang, a meeting driven by powerful instinctual forces, beyond the control of social
or personal considerations.
Coupling.
Woman's vigor.
No availing of grasping womanhood.

Line 2
Enwrapping possess fish.
Without fault.
Not harvesting: hospitality.
Comments: Enwrapping possesses fish.
Righteously not extending hospitality indeed.

Line 3
The sacrum without flesh.
One's moving the camp moreover.
Adversity.
Without the great: faulty.
Comments: One's moving the camp moreover.
Moving, not yet hauling along indeed.

The Original I Ching Oracle: Ritsema & Sabbadini

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ich/index.htm (Legge)
http://www.yijing.nl/ (LiSe)
http://www2.unipr.it/~deyoung/I_Ching_Wilhelm_Translation.html#27 (Wilhelm)
 
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chloe123

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thank you themis

Almost all of what you've written is very apt. Wasn't able though to get the last interpretations of the lines though.. Bit obscure to me. I'll hunt around and have a look at some other interpretations.
In my impatience though, I did throw the coins again and ask the same question. It came to Hexagram 2 , line 5. Auspicious..but what? do I have to keep yellow nickers on?? ( I have no wish to sound vulgar, lol, but this is another interpretation I'm not quite sure about. Do you have any ideas about that one? It's quite amusing really.)
 

themis

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You're funny ... ;) yellow knickers :) (Yellow = emblematic and imperial color of China, since the
Yellow Emperor 2500 BC. 'Apron' = ceremonial garment.) Actually it's just a question of 'wait and see' at this stage. That's about the best way to understand the Sage's message. What's essential is to grasp the general picture, the gist of it. If you pay detailed attention to the text re. each line and expect the results indicated therein to materialise you may be somewhat disappointed or pleasantly surprised.

Having said that, there are instances where the text does literally reflect the actual circumstances and it's quite uncanny. What I mean is ... say ... line 53.5 ... here we have the case of a wife who's being neglected, we're led to believe that all will work out favourably, she'll have a child after three years (a lady who finds herself in this situation might give birth before/after three years and might not at all, but the relationship may resume). In actual fact the essence of the message is that she's been treated unfairly but there's no guarantee in every single case that thereafter they'll reconciliate, unless line 5 is followed by line 6.

In line 53.3 we have the case of a husband who's been disciplined, leaves on an expedition
and does not return. However, even if 53.3 is not followed by an encouraging line such as
53.4 or 53.6 doesn't imply in every instance that he will not return. He may well 'return' in the
sense that he'll make amends, they'll continue life together, etc. The IC speaks to each and
everyone according to their understanding.

About your latest casting, well that looks promising. However when one approaches the Oracle
with the same question yet again, one may receive a contradictory response, unless you make
it clear that you need clarification or additional insight to guide you in your next steps.

So best to wait and see ... and just Enjoy ! Be careful not to rush things, in view of the fact
that the Sage has presented 'images' of the situation: 44.2 and next 44.3.
You're the best judge of it all, this is just a suggestion ...

Alternatively, you could try using Jesed's method of questioning along the lines of:
General analysis of the situation between X and I?
My position in relation to X ?
X's position in relaion to me ?
What's the best thing for me to do ? (If responses are unfavourable.)

Hex. 2 Space
The situation described by this hexagram is characterised by the dominance of Yin, the receptive
and formative quality of being that allows all things to become what they are, available and
nurturing like the surface of the earth supporting all creatures. In excess, this receptivity may
become dull, inert immobility. The hexagram Space is the doubling of the corresponding trigram,
and partakes of its attributes.
Space.
Spring. Growing. Harvesting. Trial belonging to the female horse.
A jun zi possesses directed going.
Beforehand delusion, afterwards acquiring.
A lord Harvesting.
Western South: acquiring partnering.
Eastern North: losing partnering.
Peaceful Trial, signifcant.

Line 5
A yellow apron. Spring, significant.
Comments: Pattern located in the center indeed.
 
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chingching

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well I had this line recently and i decided to take it literally and so i wore a pair of yellow undies (along with other clothes of course) to a bbq, and all went really well.
 

bradford

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Hello, I'm new here. Not sure if I'm doing it correctly. I just wanted to know what people can tell me about how they'd interpret 44 lines 2 and 3. My question was in reference to a potential boyfriend. I'd appreciate any advice. I can't find the interpetations for the lines anywhere. Thank you. Chloe.

44 is by far the most misunderstood hexagram in the Yi (22 is second). This is mainly because people jump way too quickly to the wrong conclusion about the "woman power" thing and will twist every subsequent word in the text to fit this misunderstanding.
It may help to think of this as being about the effort to resist dissipation, distraction or untimely action - an act of self-preservation.
 
U

unsubscribed_cm

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Yes 44 ladies is not some "you go girl" power up. This is a situation of bad influences. To be avoided at all costs. If you fall into the seduction of power you are enacting 44 in exactly the way the Yijing advises against.
 
S

sooo

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44 is by far the most misunderstood hexagram in the Yi (22 is second). This is mainly because people jump way too quickly to the wrong conclusion about the "woman power" thing and will twist every subsequent word in the text to fit this misunderstanding.
It may help to think of this as being about the effort to resist dissipation, distraction or untimely action - an act of self-preservation.

Have to say, I've gone full circle on this one, and more than once. I usually wind up somewhere around the middle, between its potential harm and its potential good, and depends on the choices that one makes. I surely am not of the 'avoid at all costs' category, but I do sit up and take notice, especially where my own inner bitch is concerned.
 

bradford

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especially where my own inner bitch is concerned.

The Mawangdui manuscript (before 168 BCE) has different Hexagram names for half of the Hexagrams.
For 44 the word is another character pronounced Gou3, meaning "the bitch, a dog; term of contempt; to hound".
 

anemos

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it reminds me of a reading I got once , about a trip I had to take and meeting totally strangers in a difficult emotionally situation for me. 44 was the relating hex. Don't recall the initial hex or line but I recall it was saying about being myself. Although the occasion was sad It was a lovely trip , and made some good friends , real friends. I have fond memories and what happened there is still a source of inspiration for me. I tend to see 44 as Sooo describes it .
 

anemos

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It may help to think of this as being about the effort to resist dissipation, distraction or untimely action - an act of self-preservation.

this reminds me of the meeting of odysseys and Sirens. He was tied in the mast sail, so he could enjoy her song but still keep his self safe.
 

chingching

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44 was the relating hex. Don't recall the initial hex or line but I recall it was saying about being myself.

25.1.2.3 > 44?

I relate mostly to what bradford said, self-preservation.

I have never seen the upshot of 44...

Tiger where did your post go? It was interesting, I was just about to ask you something about it but it has disappeared...or was I imagining it?
 

bradford

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Another good word for 44 is Restraint -
Restraining the carriage with a brake, restraining the weak swine with a rope,
restraining yourself from serving the fish until that special occasion, restraining yourself from cutting open the melons until they're fully ripened.
 

rodaki

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to MY eyes 44 often coincides with what's known as 'confirmation bias' . .
:eek:
 

chingching

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to MY eyes 44 often coincides with what's known as 'confirmation bias' . .
:eek:

do you mean in terms of how people interpret it? or that 44 describes 'confirmation bias' situations?... because if you mean the former then you could say that about every hex and could find plenty of examples in the forum archives.
 

anemos

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Another good word for 44 is Restraint -
.

Bradford, could you elaborate your pov regarding 44 image?

THE IMAGE
Under heaven, wind:
The image of COMING TO MEET.
Thus does the prince act when disseminating his commands
And proclaiming them to the four quarters of heaven.

I understand the "restraint" and I can recall reading with such a message, but what confuse me is the 44 image. Disseminating and proclaiming sound opposite to restrain. What the prince do here? Is he restraining through proclaiming?

add: An additional question . I have read in this forum that the word "prince" from some is translate as ruler/prince/ princess/queen. If we switch the gender in the image's text , then is it safe to assume that the woman does the restraining ?
 
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rodaki

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do you mean in terms of how people interpret it? or that 44 describes 'confirmation bias' situations?... because if you mean the former then you could say that about every hex and could find plenty of examples in the forum archives.

maybe you missed MY humor -I was being ironic ;)
Literally though, I think it's mostly about an indignant need to take the lead and how to balance it . .
 

bradford

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Bradford, could you elaborate your pov regarding 44 image?

I understand the "restraint" and I can recall reading with such a message, but what confuse me is the 44 image. Disseminating and proclaiming sound opposite to restrain. What the prince do here? Is he restraining through proclaiming?

add: An additional question . I have read in this forum that the word "prince" from some is translate as ruler/prince/ princess/queen. If we switch the gender in the image's text , then is it safe to assume that the woman does the restraining ?


For me it's still the good fight - against entropy. That wind is going to blow his words away and get them all confused and turned around. So he's extra careful and practices redundancy, speaking to all four quarters, with a message that may be tailored to each. So to me he's being careful with his proclamations, minding what the winds of time can do.
 

anemos

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For me it's still the good fight - against entropy. That wind is going to blow his words away and get them all confused and turned around. So he's extra careful and practices redundancy, speaking to all four quarters, with a message that may be tailored to each. So to me he's being careful with his proclamations, minding what the winds of time can do.

Thank you for your response Brad. I see what you mean.

I noticed I used a wrong word at my last question I meant "then is it safe to assume that the woman does the proclaiming ? " Like she is saying "listen to me !!!" But perhaps we are saying the same thing, and the 44 Image is prince's response to her.
 

chingching

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Apantomancy

I was web surfing and this page made me think of 44, certainly I have felt superstitious energies and come across as 'bad omens' when casting 44, feelings of anxiety over unseen energy. Its interesting to think of coming to meet as something unexpected crossing your path and using that chance meeting for divination.

anyway this is from www.occultopedia.com...

Apantomacy, from the greek 'apontomai' for 'to meet', it is the art and practice of divination by omens drawn from chance meetings with animals or things.

The old superstition of the black cat bringing bad luck when it crosses a person's path is one example of Apotomancy which has survived to present day.

Forecasts were usually made from chance meetings with animals, such as birds, cats, dogs and hares, making Apontomancy closely related to zoomancy....Another branch of apotomancy dealt with prognostications made from any objects which happened to present themselves, or that were 'at hand', so to speak. It could be argued that these were chance meetings with inanimate things.

Chance encounters with animals have been, and in some parts of the world still are, believed to be full of meaning. In medieval Europe, accidentally meeting a hare or a goat foretold imminent good luck.

But according to Henry Waton's Gospelles of Dystaues (1507), it was an evil sign to meet a rabbit or hare. By the 19th century, a magical method of protection against the hare was devised. It consisted of spitting over the left shoulder and reciting the following charm:

"Hare before, trouble behind.
Change ye, Cross, and free me."

Now a small disclaimer, dont use this against Topal, s/he (I only know you as a hare Topal) is a good omen hare. :D
 

chloe123

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Wow, thank you everyone for your replies.
Have decided to just go the path of least resistance and be present and watch grasping tendencies. I don't think I can go too far wrong with that.
 

chloe123

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Would someone please tell me how to delete a thread please? My questions have been answered. Not sure if it's possible to delete or not.
Thank you, Chloe
 

bradford

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Would someone please tell me how to delete a thread please? My questions have been answered. Not sure if it's possible to delete or not.
Thank you, Chloe

The thread is now part of your Permanent Record.
 

Tohpol

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I was web surfing and this page made me think of 44, certainly I have felt superstitious energies and come across as 'bad omens' when casting 44, feelings of anxiety over unseen energy. Its interesting to think of coming to meet as something unexpected crossing your path and using that chance meeting for divination.

anyway this is from www.occultopedia.com...



Now a small disclaimer, dont use this against Topal, s/he (I only know you as a hare Topal) is a good omen hare. :D

For the record, I'm a He Hare. ( not to be confused with "he-haw" for a donkey.) :)
 

bradford

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Note to anemos-
Another thought on the Da Xiang of 44. If we look at information as the opposite of entropy (negative entropy) then we see the repetition or redundancy of the King's commands as precaution against error. This is analogous to oversampling in digital information systems. With this you can copy a document lots of times without the kind of cumulative error that you used to get with Xerox copies. Since the image uses a speech image, the old children's game of "Telephone" or "Rumor" would also fit. But the game just wouldn't be as fun if you told the whole group the message.
 

anemos

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thank you :)

Very useful examples. I thought of the "telephone" game when read your comments but the xerox example makes it more "visible" in my eyes.
 

charly

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Wow, thank you everyone for your replies.
Have decided to just go the path of least resistance and be present and watch grasping tendencies. I don't think I can go too far wrong with that.
Hi, Chloe:

Don't worry. You asked for advice and got tons of interpretations. H.44 is a conflictive hexagram indeed. but you've got the point.

About the prognostications:
44.2 says 无咎 wu jiu, NO WRONG
44.3 SAYS 无大咎 wu da jiu, NO GREAT ERROR

The advice of the Changes
It' s of course, do not precipitate, go cautiously, beware of pregnancy danger. Avoid to get pregnant if unwilling.
44.2 ends 不利賓 bu li bin UNPROFITABLE TO GUEST.
44.3 with his 臀无膚, tun wu fu, SKINLESS BUTTOCKS speaks about the dangers of having one's buttocks uncovered.

For my own use I have a rule: each time we wonder about who is somebody in the Changes, the answer is, first of all, OURSELVES.

Who is that 女壯 nu zhuang, that STRONG GIRL?
Of course: YOURSELF.

Yours,

Charly

P.D.
Please, don't try to delete anything. The thread don't belong to you but to all the community.
All be for good.
It's said that gou4 also means GOOD.
Ch.
 
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