Does 8.3 mean I am not meant to be with the person?

star123 · Mar 23, 2011

I asked iching 'will my bf come back to me' because we are taking a break after a huge fight and I got 8.3.5. I was looking up the meaning for those lines at http://www.iching123.com/8_text.htm, and 8.3 says:"The one to be intimate and interdependent with is not the right partner" I am wondering if that means my bf is not the Mr. right? Will the situation change over time? I mean maybe he will become the right person? 8.5 sounds quite positive. I am really confused. Could anyone please give me some thoughts?

elias · Mar 24, 2011

8.3 "We are often among people who do not belong to our own sphere. In that case we must beware of being drawn into false intimacy through force of habit. Needless to say, this would have evil consequences. Maintaining sociability without intimacy is the only right attitude toward such people, because otherwise we should not be free to enter into relationship with people of our own kind later on" (Wilhelm)

"The people in the environment of your inquiry are not right for you at this time. Avoid too intimate an association with the group while maintaining an outward sociability. Appearing committed to these people could darken your reputation later on" (Wing)

"Be careful to whom you give your support" (Huang).

"Receiving this line means that we are off the path, or that we are approaching a situation in which we will be tempted to revert to an incorrect attitude.

" 'Wrong people' often refers to wrong elements in our attitude, as when we abandon a firm attitude for one that is indulgent...." (Anthony)

It's hard to put a happy face on this one. Looking ahead to the resultant hex (15), we see Modesty:

"The mountain wears down to become the plain. This is the image of modesty -- a state of becoming -- an attitude of patient conscientiousness in trying to do what is correct. The hexagram counsels us to rid ourself of ostentation (the heights) and to develop our character (fill in the depths). Ostentatiousness often refers to indulging in some form of justification because we distrust following the truth" (Anthony).

chloe123 · Mar 24, 2011

Hi Star123,
I'd do nothing ! He's not the one if you ask me ! You hold to the wrong people ( person ) . This is what I get from the hexagram.
As for the flirting online..is he really? Or do you only think he is? Can you know for sure he's flirting or talking to his Auntie Barbara? But not being flippant - do you really know he's in there to flirt?
I'm old. It's taken me so so so so long to learn to WAIT !
If you can wait in peace and be happy going around doing what you do, then when he shows up again, because I feel he's very likely to ( that's when you're going to use the line 5 ), you'll be able to S L O W L Y assess the situation and S L O W L Y see if he's actually good enough for you and if you can be bothered with him !
Softly softly catchee monkey.
And you mightn't even want to catch him after you've softly softly slowly had a good clear look at him.
I'd be interested to see how this goes !

chingching · Mar 24, 2011

i think hex 15 is the context, your focus is to look for the 'one' which is going to put a strain on the relationship until you get married or feel he is the 'one' in some other way. I get this from the image.

The noble one reduces the many to increase the few,
She weighs things up to even out their distribution.'

So in terms of you focussing on being with the 'one' you are standing by this man with false intimacy, 8.3...as elias has already outlined and quoted. Or maybe you are seeking union with this person without giving your all and this could be because you dont feel (deep down) that connection which is what you are ultimately looking for, but only you know the answer to that.

8.5 is the age old advice "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were." (google tells me Richard Bach said this)

rodaki · Mar 24, 2011

star123 said:
I asked iching 'will my bf come back to me' because we are taking a break after a huge fight and I got 8.3.5. I was looking up the meaning for those lines at http://www.iching123.com/8_text.htm, and 8.3 says:"The one to be intimate and interdependent with is not the right partner" I am wondering if that means my bf is not the Mr. right? Will the situation change over time? I mean maybe he will become the right person? 8.5 sounds quite positive. I am really confused. Could anyone please give me some thoughts?

Hi star123

People here have discussed different ways of understanding 8.3. For me it hasn't signified 'bad' people, just following in a way that doesn't serve your best interests. In any case, imo 8.3 shows your ex keeping close to wrong thoughts (either you are wrong for each other or he misjudges things, or both).
8.5 is a rather impersonal line if you ask me, while in 15 people 'weigh things and make them equal' in order to 'carry them through' (Wilhelm's Image and Judgement respectively).

I'd say that things are at a standstill and will remain so since it seems a mutual decision (15). If any of you wanted differently you would have taken action accordingly.

I also like a lot what chloe says in her post about taking your time to assess things before deciding anything.

take care

star123 · Mar 25, 2011

haha, thank you for your advice. I know it's best to wait to see what happened. That's the best way to find out. But I am very impatient. That's one of the reasons we got into a lot of fights.

chloe123 said:
Hi Star123,
I'd do nothing ! He's not the one if you ask me ! You hold to the wrong people ( person ) . This is what I get from the hexagram.
As for the flirting online..is he really? Or do you only think he is? Can you know for sure he's flirting or talking to his Auntie Barbara? But not being flippant - do you really know he's in there to flirt?
I'm old. It's taken me so so so so long to learn to WAIT !
If you can wait in peace and be happy going around doing what you do, then when he shows up again, because I feel he's very likely to ( that's when you're going to use the line 5 ), you'll be able to S L O W L Y assess the situation and S L O W L Y see if he's actually good enough for you and if you can be bothered with him !
Softly softly catchee monkey.
And you mightn't even want to catch him after you've softly softly slowly had a good clear look at him.
I'd be interested to see how this goes !

star123 · Mar 25, 2011

I agree with what chingching said: "your focus is to look for the 'one' which is going to put a strain on the relationship until you get married or feel he is the 'one' in some other way." I think rodaki's explanation about it doesn't serve my best interest is kinda similiar too. I did put a lot of expectations to this relationship and really trying to do everything to make it work. I have thought about us having kids. However, he doesn't think the same way. He said he really can't see we're getting married because we always fighting. He doesn't want a life like his friends and his coworkers who go home after a long day of work to fight with their wives. I don't know if this situation will ever change. I am looking for a marriage. I want to be this person for the rest of my life but I don't know if this will ever come true.

And thanks elias for giving me so many perspectives.

elias said:
8.3 "We are often among people who do not belong to our own sphere. In that case we must beware of being drawn into false intimacy through force of habit. Needless to say, this would have evil consequences. Maintaining sociability without intimacy is the only right attitude toward such people, because otherwise we should not be free to enter into relationship with people of our own kind later on" (Wilhelm)

"The people in the environment of your inquiry are not right for you at this time. Avoid too intimate an association with the group while maintaining an outward sociability. Appearing committed to these people could darken your reputation later on" (Wing)

"Be careful to whom you give your support" (Huang).

"Receiving this line means that we are off the path, or that we are approaching a situation in which we will be tempted to revert to an incorrect attitude.

" 'Wrong people' often refers to wrong elements in our attitude, as when we abandon a firm attitude for one that is indulgent...." (Anthony)

It's hard to put a happy face on this one. Looking ahead to the resultant hex (15), we see Modesty:

"The mountain wears down to become the plain. This is the image of modesty -- a state of becoming -- an attitude of patient conscientiousness in trying to do what is correct. The hexagram counsels us to rid ourself of ostentation (the heights) and to develop our character (fill in the depths). Ostentatiousness often refers to indulging in some form of justification because we distrust following the truth" (Anthony).

rodaki said:
Hi star123

People here have discussed different ways of understanding 8.3. For me it hasn't signified 'bad' people, just following in a way that doesn't serve your best interests. In any case, imo 8.3 shows your ex keeping close to wrong thoughts (either you are wrong for each other or he misjudges things, or both).
8.5 is a rather impersonal line if you ask me, while in 15 people 'weigh things and make them equal' in order to 'carry them through' (Wilhelm's Image and Judgement respectively).

I'd say that things are at a standstill and will remain so since it seems a mutual decision (15). If any of you wanted differently you would have taken action accordingly.

I also like a lot what chloe says in her post about taking your time to assess things before deciding anything.

take care

chingching said:
i think hex 15 is the context, your focus is to look for the 'one' which is going to put a strain on the relationship until you get married or feel he is the 'one' in some other way. I get this from the image.

So in terms of you focussing on being with the 'one' you are standing by this man with false intimacy, 8.3...as elias has already outlined and quoted. Or maybe you are seeking union with this person without giving your all and this could be because you dont feel (deep down) that connection which is what you are ultimately looking for, but only you know the answer to that.

8.5 is the age old advice "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were." (google tells me Richard Bach said this)

chloe123 · Mar 26, 2011

ooops

Oh Star123 !

This is an embarrassment ! My reply to you was meant to be for someone
else!
I feel decidedly silly !
I did read yours though, and wanted to reply.
You hold together with the wrong people.
He's not the one.

I feel your impatience. And the impatience you feel is the thing you might
need to love more than you love him - or probably more correct - the ideas
you hold about him.
But what I feel you doing is grasping like I used to.
The wisest thing I would try to do if this was happening in my life, would
be to be still and just be with myself and notice my thinking about how I
'want him back with me' and corresponding feelings or excitement or
frustration or impatience. Not ignoring what's present and even if that
doesn't feel comfortable not pushing it away.
Nobody knows the future. He may change. You may get another opportunity to
begin again. And you might not. But oh, don't do it in a hurry !
Sit with impatience, feel that in your body, watch how the thoughts race
with no breathing space between them and give up hope of anything at all
coming to you.
Maybe that attitude has something to do with the king in line 5 who's YOU
and you has learned non-attachment and kindness. Through sitting
compassionately with oneself in discomfort and accepting not-knowing as the
whole truth of things. That's when inspiration comes, that's when your
deeper truth comes, isn't it. When you're surrendered and no longer trying
to change things.
I have been in this situation you're in many times. I have also been
impulsive and needy and graspy and clingy and demanding in loud ways and in
subtle subtle ways. And I am the most impatient person I know.
And it's taken me years and years and years and years to find that really if
I can just wait .. for nothing .. just wait. Just sit. Then everything
comes good. And sometimes it doesn't come out how you imagine.
Our minds are so clever aren't they ? They love to take us away from the
present moment and tell us that what they've go to say is much much more
pressing and important and useful and intelligent and and and and and
and..........
....

One of my teachers tells me that I am the love of my life. If I imagine or
grasp at anything else I'll be disappointed. The cause of suffering is
desire, grasping.
...
I do hope you'll find something that resonsates from my message.

Chloe

...life can be translucent

Does 8.3 mean I am not meant to be with the person?

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