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hex 19, lin, approach

jilt

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We count august as the eighth month, but the counting of months in many times and places (cultures) is an art, that differs according to time and place.
In the naming of "western" months we still use latin names, that hint -no, I should say point- to another way of counting.
In september we can recognize sept, latin for 7: september, the 7th month
october, octo, 8, the 8th month
november, nove, 9, the 9th month
december, deca, the 10th month.
As it happens, october pretty much coincides with the chinese 8th month.

Then the timing in the judgement in the Wilhelm could also be written like:
when october comes, there will be misfortune.

The interpretation speaks of a certain succes when doing spring things in spring times. Like falling in love is for spring, not for winter and autumn; irrigating and growing is for spring, harvesting for autumn. When you want to harvest in spring it evokes a sense of instant whishfullfillment and you will be disappointed. Remember, there are are four yin-lines in this hexagram, there is a lot of work to be done.

It seems as if more layers of interpretation coincide with the judgement.
If we consider the lake-trigram tui as the inner trigram, and k'un, the earth as the outside trigram, then the image of a lake in the earth appears. The first association can be a lake in a cave, then, it might also be an accumulation of energy/life that makes things grow. It might also hint to metal in the ground. It also gives an image of the mother outside and the youngest daughter inside.
Here the whole hexagram, and not the interaction of the trigrams, is considered for interpretation. Hexagrams can be used to describe the energy-cycle of a year.
Hex 2, earth, then resonates with the winter-solstice (21st of december), hex 1, heaven, with summer solstice (21st of june) on the northern hemisphere. Hex 24 for the 1st month, hex 19 for the second, hex 11 for the 3rd, 34 for the 4th, 43 for the 5th, 1 for six, 44 for the seventh, 33 for the eighth month, 12 for the 9th, 20 for the 10th, 23 for the 11th.
In the Wilhelm the implicit year-cycle interpretation is dominant, it gives the feeling that a lin situation is not possible in the eight month, because the interpretation ties itself up to this cycle alone.
If we leave that tying up to one kind cycle alone, the interpretation states that you can do things according to the cycle you have tuned in, now stick to the groove. Executing a plan goes step by step. Later, when a plan falls together, it should be on the right place in the right time, so don't spoil tings by wrong timing.

Words-adapted from The Bible, book of Ecclesiastes
Music-Pete Seeger

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to build up,a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones together

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace, a time to refrain from embracing

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late



:bows:
 

charly

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...
Then the timing in the judgement in the Wilhelm could also be written like:
when october comes, there will be misfortune.

The interpretation speaks of a certain succes when doing spring things in spring times. Like falling in love is for spring, not for winter and autumn; irrigating and growing is for spring, harvesting for autumn.

Hi, Bert:

If I understand you well, chinese october, yet autumn, is not a so good season as springtime for doing things like:

• seizing country flowers,
• hunting butterflies or dragonflies,
• looking japanese spring pictures,
• getting a girlfriend or a boyfriend,
• requesting babies from the stork,
• ... ?​

Although, of course, never is too late for trying it.

Ancient chinese young peasants used to marry in autumn. Some people see marriage as a misfortune. Maybe that's why H.19 sentence ends with misfortune?

The advice can be: don't let go opportunities, don't wait till the next season for they can no return.

All the best,

Charly


___________________________
Enjoying springtime:

chinese-dragonfly-painting.jpg

Source: http://lizapaizis.com/artwork-designs-by-liza-paizis/chinese-dragonfly-painting/

Ecclesiastes 4.11

También si dos durmieren juntos, se calentarán; mas ¿cómo se calentará uno solo?
Old Reyna-Valera

Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
Old King James
Ch.
 
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rodaki

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In the Wilhelm the implicit year-cycle interpretation is dominant, it gives the feeling that a lin situation is not possible in the eight month, because the interpretation ties itself up to this cycle alone.
If we leave that tying up to one kind cycle alone, the interpretation states that you can do things according to the cycle you have tuned in, now stick to the groove. Executing a plan goes step by step. Later, when a plan falls together, it should be on the right place in the right time, so don't spoil tings by wrong timing.

Words-adapted from The Bible, book of Ecclesiastes
Music-Pete Seeger

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to build up,a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones, a time to gather stones together

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace, a time to refrain from embracing

To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)
There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)
And a time to every purpose, under Heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late



:bows:


hi Bert, good to see you again here!


time and again I have come across threads in the forums here that ask about this 8th month part and try out various time schemes to explain it, but to my limited experience, it has been more about what you mention in the end of your post - about the specific cycle of things (or tings ;)) that we have in mind each time. For example, I had 19 when wondering whether it'd be a good idea to text to someone while they were online - obviously if they logged off that would be the 8th month in that case . .

Sailing for me also has given me many '8th month' ideas, cause there you need to take advantage of any weather openings that appear and your whole program becomes dependent to that element alone, with everything else coming second - especially when secluded in an island by gales - and then it also depends on the kind of winds blowing (eg northern winds start strong and gradually mellow, while southern winds start weak and as days go by keep on getting stronger and stronger - or at least that's what happens in the Aegean). Or, there are spots where weather anomalies emerge that come with warning signs only those who know of the place can recognize

Which brings another element that I feel is very strong in 19, ie that of tutelage (mother/daughter, Earth/Lake). Iow, I feel in making use of 19's time is not only needed to get moving, but to have deep knowledge of the cycle in which we want to move, in order to guide events accordingly - and if we don't know of it, then have someone/thing to guide us forward . . I think sometimes plunging ahead with no awareness of the cycle can even cause the 8th month to come up much sooner!


so these are some thoughts o'mine over this :) .. btw I always thought of this song as a 24 one - funny how the things may get different meanings depending? Sometimes I feel like the world is like one huge kaleidoscope made of multiple points of view (and I'm not even on drugs, lol)
 

jilt

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Hi, Bert:

If I understand you well, chinese october, yet autumn, is not a so good season as springtime for doing things like:

• seizing country flowers,
• hunting butterflies or dragonflies,
• looking japanese spring pictures,
• getting a girlfriend or a boyfriend,
• requesting babies from the stork,
• ... ?​

Although, of course, never is too late for trying it.

Ancient chinese young peasants used to marry in autumn. Some people see marriage as a misfortune. Maybe that's why H.19 sentence ends with misfortune?

The advice can be: don't let go opportunities, don't wait till the next season for they can no return.

All the best,

Charly


___________________________
Enjoying springtime:


Ch.

Dear Charly,

anything goes when the timing is ok? that might very well be so, but you need to be very skillfull/talented/trained to tune in on the right moment and know about resonance and rhythms and therfore you need teachings and teachers.

1 seizing country flowers is definitely for spring in the northern hemisphere

2 hunting butterflies and dragonflies depends on chosen species where and when to go

3 looking japanese spring pictures can be done any time in any library with japanese springtimepictures. Some people even have books with japanese springtimepictures at home and don't have to take openinghours of libraries into account.

4 Getting boyfried or girlfriend: depends on species. We humans are horny all the time, although, when young more then old, in spring more then in winter (is that so?) so we humans are liberated from wooing and mating-seasons. But it is better to get children when you are still fertile... . Some cultures have a wooing season, and when you're part of such a culture it is easier to go with that flow. The metaphor of spring and all kinds of wooing-ritual from other species can set a pace for behaviour.
ehh, by the way, "horny" is an interesting metaphor, coming from animals with horns in mating-season. In hex 26 you can learn about taming such an incredible power.

5 Requesting babies from Stork: although we have many storks in our surroundings and people have images from stork-gods on their windows after "receiving" a child, and there definitely is something with statistics -in years with more storks more babies-, the whole idea is more like when concieving take birth in consideration: will there be enough food, shelter, will it be the right time to nourish a child?

Marrying in autumn would result in birth in summer. Then food is abundant, shelter not much a problem.
 
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jilt

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hi Bert, good to see you again here!


time and again I have come across threads in the forums here that ask about this 8th month part and try out various time schemes to explain it, but to my limited experience, it has been more about what you mention in the end of your post - about the specific cycle of things (or tings ;)) that we have in mind each time. For example, I had 19 when wondering whether it'd be a good idea to text to someone while they were online - obviously if they logged off that would be the 8th month in that case . .

Sailing for me also has given me many '8th month' ideas, cause there you need to take advantage of any weather openings that appear and your whole program becomes dependent to that element alone, with everything else coming second - especially when secluded in an island by gales - and then it also depends on the kind of winds blowing (eg northern winds start strong and gradually mellow, while southern winds start weak and as days go by keep on getting stronger and stronger - or at least that's what happens in the Aegean). Or, there are spots where weather anomalies emerge that come with warning signs only those who know of the place can recognize

Which brings another element that I feel is very strong in 19, ie that of tutelage (mother/daughter, Earth/Lake). Iow, I feel in making use of 19's time is not only needed to get moving, but to have deep knowledge of the cycle in which we want to move, in order to guide events accordingly - and if we don't know of it, then have someone/thing to guide us forward . . I think sometimes plunging ahead with no awareness of the cycle can even cause the 8th month to come up much sooner!


so these are some thoughts o'mine over this :) .. btw I always thought of this song as a 24 one - funny how the things may get different meanings depending? Sometimes I feel like the world is like one huge kaleidoscope made of multiple points of view (and I'm not even on drugs, lol)

Yes! in sailing we meet all those timing-things.
recently I read some books about the history of sailing the Mediterranean, now Im reading 1434: The year a magnificent Chinese fleet sailed to Italy and ignited the renaissance. Gavin Menzies. Again all about timing, monsoon-rhythms and the winter and summer-winds in the mediterranean. How the winds defined the trading-patterns.

Perhaps you could say "Lin" is all about a window in time", the opportunity. Perhaps change the name of the gua in "opportunity"? Leaving that ominous "when the 8th month is coming, aspects are reversed, misfortune" out and stating instead: When timing is right, great success; when the timing isn't ok, misfortune? Good knowledge of the field you're in is of paramount importance, get education.
 
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jilt

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I'm thinking about the people living in the southern hemisphere, for them, using the agriculture-season-cycle-metaphor, it would be: "when the second month is coming, you're out of time"

There are many questions about timing. Taking the yearly energycycle (for the northern hemisphere, things in the south are reversed!), 19, 11, 34, 43, 1, 44, 33, 12, 20, 23, 2, 24 (24 is about christmas, winter-solstice, return of the light), and the question is explicit about timing, then that cycle can be of great help. Here, in the case of the Wilhelm Lin (nr 19) the interpretation got tied up to only one possible cycle, the seasonal cycle from the northern hemisphere. That limits the scope of interpretation and confuses many.

Following the "comes the eighth month", then for hex 24 the line "comes the 9th month, aspects are reversed, bad luck" could be added. Also for 1: "comes december, dont do any creative things, surrender." For 11: but when september wakes, autumn is near.

The dutch Jaap Voigt wrote a very beautiful book about the energy-cycle: Living and working in rhythm with seasons. Unfortunately it is only in dutch. www.jaapvoigt.nl

Hexagram 60, chieh, limitation, appears to have everything to do with making a rhythm. When the 5th line of lin (19) changes, the story of making actual rhythm unfolds.
 
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rodaki

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that's beautifully said about 60 . . the previous days I was wondering of the meaning of 60's ideogram as 'festival' - seems so different to what we usually see it as . .

As to the names of gua, I think 'Opportunity' imho comes very close but 'Approach/Approaching' is also very close to that once you get a feel of it - besides, I'm pretty sure that if it was 'Opportunity' to begin with, we'd probably still be here discussing different names for it, even maybe 'Approach', lol


That book you mentioned about the Chinese fleet also sounds very interesting - thanks for the tip!
 

charly

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Dear Charly,

anything goes when the timing is ok? that might very well be so, but you need to be very skillfull/talented/trained to tune in on the right moment and know about resonance and rhythms and therfore you need teachings and teachers.
...
[Bert aka Jilt]

Which brings another element that I feel is very strong in 19, ie that of tutelage (mother/daughter, Earth/Lake). Iow, I feel in making use of 19's time is not only needed to get moving, but to have deep knowledge of the cycle in which we want to move, in order to guide events accordingly - and if we don't know of it, then have someone/thing to guide us forward . . I think sometimes plunging ahead with no awareness of the cycle can even cause the 8th month to come up much sooner!

Dora aka Rodaki

Hi, Dora. Hi, Bert:

There are many associations with SPRINGTIME ATMOSPHERE, one of these fits with what you said (1):


春風化雨
chun1 feng1 hua4 yu3
«stimulating influence of teacher compared to spring atmosphere»
(Lin Yutang)
I believe that the teaching aspect of H.19 resides in the 5th. line althoug, of course, the sense is not clear without the help of another associations, but that's another story.


All the best,


Charly

_____________________
(1) Another chinese idioms with spring and wind are [source MDBG]:

春風和氣
chun1 feng1 he2 qi4
amiable as a spring breeze

春風得意
chun1 feng1 de2 yi4
flushed with success / proud of one's success (in exams, promotion etc) / as pleased as punch

春風滿面
chun1 feng1 man3 mian4
pleasantly smiling / radiant with happiness

春風一度
chun1 feng1 yi1 du4
to have sexual intercourse :eek:
[Literally SPRING AND WIND AT ONCE, I believe]

Ch.

P.D.:
Aki Toyosaki (Shun Pu)
8489-shunpu-q64y-t.jpg

Source: http://www.jpopasia.com/celebrity/akitoyosaki/lyrics/shun-pu::8489.html
The image of spring..
Ch.
 
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