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Any Yijing Witches out there?

yxeli

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I'm wondering about something that I read awhile ago that the I Ching was also a 'spellbook' when it was originally developed? The form it now comes to us is only half the original text? Is it true that originally each hexagram/line had a 'spell/offering' you were meant to carry out after the divination?

I have no idea where i picked this up, could well be complete hokey, but thought i'd ask if there's any truth in this, and if so, does anyone make an offering after receiving a casting? What kind of offering do you make?

Thanks,

Yx
 

Trojina

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Some would say just casting is a kind of spell...and also that some castings can undo the spell of previous castings.....Luis has written about this in CC and elsewhere. Its clever stuff and as soon as I grasp it I tend to lose it...but if I see the thread I'll link to it

Someone told me they did a spell the other day to silence a troublesome neighbour. I said I thought if you used spells you also needed to know about the rebound....my current idea of a spell is you enlist an energy to do your will but you always have to reckon with the pay back somehow. You can't take an energy bend it around to your will without also knowing the antidote so to speak....how to undo it or how to know when the time is up for its service to you.....I think when its time is up for its service to you all kinds of wierd ping back effects can be observed...if you over step it....just like in all the stories...Cinderellas coach etc only lasts till midnight. The sorcerers apprentice uses spells beyond his knowledge and the energy is so strong he can't stop it and...I forget the story.... I think we may be doing far more spells than we think....automatically...in thoughts. I have known several people who have deliberately cast minor but unpleasant spells on those who are annoying them in some way. I tend to think unless they are very clear about what they are doing and what the 'bargain' is they are taking something of a risk there...infact I doubt it could ever be wise to use a spell to harm someone, though these weren't spells to harm but sort of hinder...hinder noisy neighbours etc etc


this isn't what you asked.....but anyway

I don't use any spells with the Yi but I think I could do with more spell type education....pity I am too old for Hogwarts :D
 
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Trojina

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I guess with most actual spells 'terms and conditions apply'
 

bradford

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I guess with most actual spells 'terms and conditions apply'

I like that a lot. Particularly with the Yi, since it has such a delicious and wicked sense of irony. And you never think of all the angles that magic can come back to you from.

Yes, to the general thread question - the Yi was used for spells as well, though I've never heard anything about a separate text. Some time during the Shang people started annotating the bones with "we desire that ..." in addition to "what will be ..."

The Gua, with or without highlighted lines, make excellent talismans for spellwork. I've used them sparingly, and every time I've experienced the aforementioned wicked irony. Always an education.
 

yxeli

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Particularly with the Yi, since it has such a delicious and wicked sense of irony.

irony, yes, i've definitely experienced Yi's wry sense of humour alright!

Yes, to the general thread question - the Yi was used for spells as well, though I've never heard anything about a separate text. Some time during the Shang people started annotating the bones with "we desire that ..." in addition to "what will be ..."

aha! "we desire that", now that makes alot of sense, so they did believe that just by casting you were having an effect on the outer world? By casting they could bring into existence their intention?

I think we may be doing far more spells than we think....automatically...in thoughts.

I always wonder about this. The idea that your intention somehow causes some kind of ripple effect in reality, maybe by just casting and having an intention in mind and divining this intention, we are spellcasting too! But more often then not i think the yi is telling me to go out into the real world and 'do something' actual- the 'offering'.

What about the 'offering' then? 'make an offering and you will succeed'? Obviously the offering differs depending on the intention, but does anyone actually do this? if so, what kind of offerings do you make?

Yx
 

bradford

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What about the 'offering' then? 'make an offering and you will succeed'? Obviously the offering differs depending on the intention, but does anyone actually do this? if so, what kind of offerings do you make? Yx

Two small bowls are enough if you're offering thanks. Many large beasts aren't enough if you're asking Heaven for bunches of stuff.
 

Trojina

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Two small bowls are enough if you're offering thanks. Many large beasts aren't enough if you're asking Heaven for bunches of stuff.

I read this...several times as "many large breasts aren't enough....." :rofl: IMO large breasts often seem more than enough in asking men for bunches of stuff :rofl:
 

el_2

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Funny thing is that I often start by stating "I desire that..." - but only in order to set the background for the question when there is a specific goal in mind. Up to now it had never crossed my mind that the Yijing could also be used as a spellbook. I suppose it doesn't count as spellcasting if I don't intend it to be so.

I find this topic very interesting, so if anyone has any more info to share, I'd love to read it - although, personally, I won't use the Yijing as a spellbook - I don't intend to meddle with things I'm not familiar with (thinking of the rebound effect, etc.).
 

bradford

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I told this story here long ago. My business is mostly land planning and architecture. In the late eighties I had run short of work and did a spell to locate gainful employ. I used Gua/Line 46.3, Advancing on an Empty Town, to open up a new opportunity, and the Tarot card the Eight of Pentacles for practical work. I burned the talismans and put them from my mind. Two weeks later I had a job as an assistant planner, designing a new town zoned for 2000 people from scratch on twelve-hundred acres of a spectacular alpine mesa, along with a dream design team, from whom I would learn a lot. The project went on and off for three years, and then sputtered out for being too visionary for the current market, despite the fact that the land was free and clear. In the end it was only an Empty Town. At least we all got paid and educated.
 

meng

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For me, those two small and empty bowls, offered as a sacrifice, are an attitude adjustment. What has to go is my self-importance, and the thing I'm all worked up over; the thing that gives me a sense of entitlement, particularly entitlements to how others should be. Sometimes the bowl has an object or person in it: a new guitar, a nice female companion, or hot sex object; the feeling of being unfairly deprived is in there too, next to the cup of entitlement.

So if I'm going to move out of this 'full of myself' state of mind, I have to empty and clean those two sacrificial bowls, before I offer them.

That is when increase can come, when the bowls are empty.
 

meng

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Since we're retelling old stories.. :)

A local Indian woman, a shaman of years, gave to me a shard from a broken pot, to carry in my mojo bag, assuming everyone carries a small leather or beaded drawstring closing bag, in which you carry your objects of magic. I later was told (by an old Indian man) why so much of this kind of pottery shard is found and available, even going to the early Anasazi tribes, which this one was from.

Once a year, the woman of every house was to bring a favored clay vessel, and with ceremony, each vessel would be filled with the disputes with neighbors within the tribe, men, women, children, dogs, anything which is causing them to see themselves as other than a brother or sister in the tribe. So the woman would hold it up, and cast it down into a big pit, where it would shatter. Every woman of every family was to do this. After this, there would come a year of peace among the tribal members.
 

rodaki

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I really like the story. I have noticed how, when the vibes around people are tense, there are more chances of things breaking as a manifestation of energy. That ritual sounds like a great way to give a channel to such energy to dissipate it . . wonder if such breaking could also be linked to 50.4; it would give a whole new spin to the line, perhaps showing a ritual to clear away old 'poison' leftovers?


btw, Trojan, I swear I had the same thing happen to me reading 'beasts' - still does every time I read it :duh: . . I dunno maybe it's how it comes after the thought of two bowls?? ah well that's what happens for thinking in visuals! :rolleyes:
 

meng

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Any larger than a champagne glassful is wasteful, once said the French. Italians have a different saying, I've heard. :mischief:

I can certainly see your connection with 59 and 50.4, which interestingly changes to 18 - healing what has spoiled.
 

rodaki

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Ah! I knew the Italians could always be counted upon to be generous with their portions! :mischief:
 

yxeli

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For me, those two small and empty bowls, offered as a sacrifice, are an attitude adjustment. What has to go is my self-importance, and the thing I'm all worked up over; the thing that gives me a sense of entitlement, particularly entitlements to how others should be. Sometimes the bowl has an object or person in it: a new guitar, a nice female companion, or hot sex object; the feeling of being unfairly deprived is in there too, next to the cup of entitlement.

So if I'm going to move out of this 'full of myself' state of mind, I have to empty and clean those two sacrificial bowls, before I offer them.

That is when increase can come, when the bowls are empty.

ah! rightso, this makes all the sense! Ta! :bows:

Brad: Amazing story and I had in fact come across it before here, very literal wryness from Yi for sure!

I'm kind of inclined to try something similar, not for personal gain but for something else, maybe just an intention for my mother who's at the moment quite stressed out, some kind of calming line. Maybe just paint hex 42 and 'intend' it in her direction? Then burn it? Or put it in me old chipped cornflake bowl and throw it down a drainpipe?! :D

Somehow seems a bit negatively destructive, what if you dont want to stop ill will like them injuns were at? It makes sense to smash things when everyones gittin angsty, but what do you do with your offering if its for a blessing to befall someone?

Would appreciate any suggs about whats the most 'calming' line in the book too please thanks!


Yx
 
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bradford

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Would appreciate any suggs about whats the most 'calming' line in the book too please thanks! Yx

Would need to know calming from what to be specific.
The word "casting" in spellwork is meaningful. You don't want to hang on to a spell any more than an archer wants to hang on to an arrow. Break the bowl and walk away. You have to let it go, cast it off, forget about it.
 

yxeli

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hmn.

Well she's quite negative, it seems alot to do with 18, from her childhood initially and she's quite isolated at the moment. She's 67, has raised 5 kids and is a bit lost as to her direction from here on out- she talks alot about dying and she carries alot of those stubborn negative ways of thinking that people often do, and they've become so inherent she doesn't really notice she's doing it.

I'd like to 'intend' for her to be able to be happy and to make friends. I think making friends and having social contact is what she really needs. She spends far too much time alone with her own thoughts. Maybe 13?

Ah I see, 'casting' means as in 'casting out'. Got it. I'm sure I can manage that. Thanks for your help Brad!


Yx
 

Trojina

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hmn.

Well she's quite negative, it seems alot to do with 18, from her childhood initially and she's quite isolated at the moment. She's 67, has raised 5 kids and is a bit lost as to her direction from here on out- she talks alot about dying and she carries alot of those stubborn negative ways of thinking that people often do, and they've become so inherent she doesn't really notice she's doing it.

I'd like to 'intend' for her to be able to be happy and to make friends. I think making friends and having social contact is what she really needs. She spends far too much time alone with her own thoughts. Maybe 13?

Ah I see, 'casting' means as in 'casting out'. Got it. I'm sure I can manage that. Thanks for your help Brad!


Yx

It isn't a great idea to 'intend' for someone without their informed consent IMO. Whatever you think she needs her own soul knows best and we cannot really intervene with our own agenda. Personally I think a sincere prayer/wish however you 'pray' for her highest good is enough. No need for spells here IMO, that seems overly intrusive to me.

Sure with ones own mother it may not feel like intruding but doesn't it drive you nuts when people decide whats best for you ? Would you like it if she decided you needed to make more friends ?


Sounds corny but all you need to do is send her love, wishes for her highest good...whatever that is, (and we don't know what is for anothers highest good is,...sometimes it may even be death or more suffering) and of course your personal attention and help.

Why does this need a spell ? :confused: I think if you are going to cast spells do it for yourslef or with permission of the other....I'm not keen on the idea of summoning up energies to cast at another person.....beware of ping back effect. You don't know what impact a spell will have on you...and its more likely to affect you than her IMO
 

yxeli

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Hey Tro!

No, she has said this herself to me about needing friends. She's alone and she knows full well at this stage what she's lacking, but is full of doubts because she thinks shes old. everyhting seems to hold this other thought of being too old to do anyhting, too old to make friends, too old to start living her own life after raising 5 children for 40 yrs and following my dads whims, being uprooted and not finding any companions. she has none. she had a dog and a cat up until recently, they were her only companions. my dad might aswell not live in the same house as her. She also had blood clots in her lungs a few months ago. My dad dropped her at the hospital, didnt even walk in with her. She had one percent lung capacity. A priest was called in. She nearly died, and she had noone even to walk into the hospital with her.

I suppose it is a prayer. I might call it a spell, or an 'intention', but to me its all the same.
 

meng

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Would need to know calming from what to be specific.
The word "casting" in spellwork is meaningful. You don't want to hang on to a spell any more than an archer wants to hang on to an arrow. Break the bowl and walk away. You have to let it go, cast it off, forget about it.

You know, Brad, this stuck with me all day, something familiar. Then I remembered, that old Indian guy was indignant and told me to cast it down and crush it with the heel of my boot. I didn't understand why he would say such a thing. Now I realize the practice of passing spells along through objects given as gifts or tokens. Though I can't prove it had any spell at all, I can see how it might, especially since I gave so much power to it.
 

bradford

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No, she has said this herself to me about needing friends. She's alone and she knows full well at this stage what she's lacking, but is full of doubts because she thinks she's old. everything seems to hold this other thought of being too old to do anything, too old to make friends, too old to start living her own life

In this case I'd try to send something of Gua 08 her way, which for me also resonates with the Tarot's 3 of Cups. But she would have to be ready to make new friends as well.
Can all those kids do more to cheer her up?
 

meng

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aging...

My mother has complained about looking old since she was in her 30's. But that didn't stop her from continuing on at 94. I mean, how is a person supposed to look at 94? She stays trim, has nice wigs, wears flattering clothes. She says she wants my dad (in heaven) to stay interested in her, so every day she dresses to please and interest him. Sorry, I now recall telling that before, here. It just touches me, that kind of dedication. She writes to me with her own left hand (I am also a southpaw, born on her birthday), and is concerned about spelling and penmanship, which is excellent, as always.

My point is, most everyone passed their 20's feels old at one time or other. But that right there is a potential learning moment or re-learning moment ("by repetition the student makes the work his own." - WB, 29). She asked me after she turned 94, "Bruce, do you feel your age? I don't." I know my mom, and how she meant that - essentially the same being she's always been. Yes, I replied, I know what you mean.

If you look at the biological body, from the age of 18 or so, our bodies already show signs of decay. A body naturally decays in an offensive manner: pre or post-mortom, and that decay process starts very early. Teens' teeth start decaying, and all the faster if left natural, rather than practicing oral hygiene, prophylactic care. That's just how nature is. I think if your friend can learn to accept that, and that she is part of a much bigger picture, concern over age will cease to be a burden, and she will find new vigor and be the ageless being that she is.
 

yxeli

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Brad,

Yeah, you'd think my bro's and sisters would help, but my eldest sibling, my sister, is notoriously bad at showing up when people need her most, my other sister lives in london, and my two brothers don't seem to think she needs any help. She always talks about moving in with one of us, and from a young age she hated when we left the house. She has always put alot of pressure on us because she has always been so lonely. I'm the youngest daughter (as you might have guessed) and from a young age my sisters and brothers kind of made me her chief friend, probably because of the guilt of leaving her alone.


Meng,

thats a lovely story about your mother still dressing up for your dad. It does seem like a complete waste of time to worry about aging, but i think her negative thought patterns that include aging all stem from her lonliness. if she had a few women she could talk with her own age, I think her perspective would change about it, but she doesnt and she cant see the extreme black and white thought patterns she has.

I will paint hexagram 8 and intend it her way. Is it vital to get rid of the spell? I was thinking of maybe hiding it in her house or in her bedroom? Is that a very bad idea?


Thanks very much for your help!¬

Yx
 

bradford

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I will paint hexagram 8 and intend it her way. Is it vital to get rid of the spell? I was thinking of maybe hiding it in her house or in her bedroom? Is that a very bad idea?
Yx

Then it would be a charm, not a spell.
 

meng

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I think most people practice charms and spells without even realizing they do. Ones thoughts effect the way things roll out. But it can be full of mischief and trickery, or worse. I believe the hexagram that most clearly speaks to this is h60.

I may place a certain object on a window shelf, without knowing why. I just think it looks nice there, or maybe it gives me a nice feeling, or arouses an ideal, whether it be our country flag, a cross, a remembrance of a loved one, a hope or dream.

An interesting place to observe this is at someone's work station, the little personal touches that give each a sense of being at home, at least to whatever extent the company permits. Or perhaps the individual makes certain it is devoid of such inner reflection; all business. It still says something about the person, they are still expressing themselves.

But, for me at least, there's a difference. This sort of magic is within the natural flow (reality really is a miracle!), but if the spell or charm becomes a conscious and deliberate act to create a certain effect: in Joseph Campbell's words: Watch out now, girly! " Being prepared brings good fortune. If there are secret designs, it is disquieting." W/B 61.1
 
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pocossin

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I believe the hexagram that most clearly speaks to this is h60.

I've been thinking about this all day but can't see it. How does h60 so relate? Is it limitation = self-definition?
 
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meng

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I've been thinking about this all day but can't see it. How does h60 so relate? Is it limitation = self-definition?

Once one opens that rabbit hole (the one I referred to, consciously attempting to manipulate someone, for example), that's dark and chaotic - as I perceive it. Let me find a specific Wilhelm comment on 60 which expresses the idea.

In human life too the individual achieves significance through discrimination
and the setting of limits. Therefore what concerns us here is the problem of
clearly defining these discriminations, which are, so to speak, the backbone of
morality. Unlimited possibilities are not suited to man; if they existed, his life
would only dissolve in the boundless. To become strong, a man's life needs
the limitations ordained by duty and voluntarily accepted. The individual
attains significance as a free spirit only by surrounding himself with these
limitations and by determining for himself what his duty is.

When you consciously, intentionally cast a spell, you are effected by the spell and tied inseparably to the results. All the more if the spell or curse or charm has been dwelt upon and premeditated. If you hate someone and dwell on that hate, or if you feel victimized a lot, and dwell on how unfair life is to you, that is a spell. If you say 'God damn it' a lot, that is a curse. Words have power, even if they're silently running in your head.

It's important that ones mojo (or cauldron) stays cleaned.
 

yxeli

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Well,

Yesterday Morning I went out to my parents house, my mother wasn't at home, and i raided her painting stuff, got a yellow sheet of heavy paper ( i thought yellow was appropriate for obvious reasons) and in black paint i painted hexagram 8 along with the ancient symbol for it. I went into her room and while i waited for the paint to dry I just repeated 'i wish my mother to have friends'. When it dried, I hid it under her bed.

Strangely enough, when I went back downstairs I asked my dad where mum was, and he said that she went to see a divorce lawyer (!), which I htought was really profound considering the oracle of hex 8. I waited for my mum to return and she had in fact gone to see a divorce lawyer. so now i'm wondering whether i should get rid of the charm? Maybe right now it's not such a good idea to be messing with this stuff.

Yx
 

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