Would Erosion or Eroding be an accurate gloss for Kan?

No's how I'd vote.
Good in various ways for Gua 12, 23, 44 and 59 though.

Please explain the logic behind Exposure to me. It seems different from the other terms on the Glossery. I do not understand the connection if it is not the the water erodes away exposing.

Hi Lloyd-
This is from the notes section in my online Gua Ming book. There are differences between the Bagua Kan and the Gua:

Notes:
Rather than simply overreacting to the words Peril, Danger or Abyss, try asking instead: what is it that is deliberately and enthusiastically sought by people who climb about in these deep canyons and boat right through the white water rapids. There is a full-hearted commitment to the process of surviving, to the passing of this trial. There is a great simplicity in having most of our options removed by serious constraints to the path or the route ahead. The senses sharpen, the heart pounds, the whole being responds to the challenge by waking up, being more fully alive. It's a Risk, but it's life learning more about life and what it is capable of.

There's also this from the Bagua section in my first book:
The Symbolism: Kan, as water in action, cutting a river canyon or filling a pit,
symbolizes a fluid response to context, the deliberate changing of self and shape to
meet needs and necessities. From above, the human perspective, there arise feelings
in the pit of the stomach, and a pounding of the heart, when one wishes to cross
this tricky ground, the challenge ahead. The point is, of course, that the teacher is
at work below, patient yet opportunistic. The solution to the problem ahead is not
a single leap in a single direction, but a series of risks, decisions and choices. These
will call upon memory, second-hand if not first, and concentration, meaning to
locate oneself around something central, such as one’s courage, heart or balance.

29.M, Key Words
Repeated, multiple, familiar with + crisis, risk, hazard, peril, exigency, trial, danger

Pit, chasm, canyon, gorge, strait, test; living on the edge, the way out is through

Immerse, plunge in, undergo, commit, fall to, get involved; fear, vertigo, anxiety

Concentration, alertness, challenge, unarguable constraints, the will to live, heart

Flow, water’s approach to givens, necessity to perform; fluidity, grace, courage

Enlightening confrontations, the hard fact as teacher; Castaneda’s having to believe 


Hi Bradford. Thank you. I love the new book, great resource.

I was reading Vol. 1 pg 468ff Book of Changes. I was examining the bagua only, though maybe I should have considered the gua. I read both again this and I think I see what you are saying. Correct me if I am mistaken.

1. The image is water, river as actively moving.
2. That movement creates the ravine, gorge, abyss.
3. So it is about the results of what the water’s force is doing and not the action itself.
4. Therefore water exposes.

I suggested water erodes, but I was focusing (incorrectly) on the action and not the result.

I was replacing: “The Symbolism: Kan, as water in action, cutting [eroding] a river canyon or [the wash from erosion] filling a pit,symbolizes a fluid response [erosion] to context, the deliberate changing of self and shape to meet needs and necessities.” As if the water over time erodes away that which is soft and not sustainable.

But, erosion may imply a negative washing away of good and bad together, whereas cutting may be the teacher as a surgeon with scalpel removing the unwanted only.

Exposure, which definition are you using?
1 the state of being exposed to contact with something.
2 the state of having no protection from something harmful.
3 the revelation of an identity or fact, esp. one that is concealed or likely to arouse disapproval
4 the revelation of something secret, especially something embarrassing or damaging

I guess my confusion is between action vs result. But I see they are split in your translation.

Kun: Earth Accepts (action)
Gen: Mountain is Still (action)
Xun: Wind adapts (action)
Li: Fire arising (action)
Qian: sky creating (action)

Kan Water cuts then exposure (result)
Zhen: Thunder breaks then arousal (result)
Dui: Lake attracts then satisfaction (result)

I was looking for a noun/verb combination. Why are the bottom three not noun/verb combination? Thank you. I alway value your analysis.

Are you going to bind up the new Gua Ming book to match the others?

Result could also be state of being. Then the list would be equally split. Is there are reason for difference?

Kun: Earth Accepts (action)
Xun: Wind adapts (action)
Li: Fire arising (action)
Qian: sky creating (action)

Kan Water is exposure (being)
Zhen: Thunder is arousal (being)
Dui: Lake is satisfaction (being)
Gen: Mountain is Still (being)

wlloydw said:

Hi Bradford.
1. The image is water, river as actively moving.
2. That movement creates the ravine, gorge, abyss.
3. So it is about the results of what the water’s force is doing and not the action itself.
4. Therefore water exposes.

Click to expand...

I think the whole idea of water's cutting action might be confusing enough to warrant dropping it. Think near-term, the way of movement itself, exposure to the constraints and the response to them. It's the water that's exposed to the constraints and the focus is on its response.

The difference between ba gua and the doubled bagua (called chong gua): the latter is more complex because the same thing is going on inside and out, subject and object are resonating, as in this case the exposed party is wanting to adopt the way of water in navigating the gorge, with the water as example. The bagua is a lot simpler - it's the way of water in movement and response, and in being present.

Kan may not be cutting but it is edgy.

Bradford, Sparhawk, Meng thank you for comments and readings. I will ponder this more today.

Bradford:

Are you going to print the New Gua Ming book to match the others?

Click to expand...

Thanks.

wlloydw said:

Are you going to bind up the new Gua Ming book to match the others?

Click to expand...

No. It's intended to be downloadable as a simple html file, and live in a folder or on a desktop. Same with the big Yixue Bibliography.

Thank you.

Hi, Lloyd:

Maybe you already know this chinese document that associates KAN with PRISON, DUNGEON.

It has an english abstract:

GU Wen-shuang
(Heilongjiang Nationalities Institute, Harbin 150040, China)

Abstract:

Basing on linguistic and lexicological investigation as well as the historical background of the compilation of Zhouyi, this paper holds that Kan in Zhouyi ought to be interpreted as dungeon, reflecting that prison in the Shang and Zhou dynasties was a cellar like structure.

Kan is a special hexagram exposing the clue of ancient prison and prisoner. Not only did the affiliated oracle words of the hexagram simply describe the prisoner's psychology, hardships, and living circumstance, but also indirectly reflected the prison's shape and architectural characteristics.

Source: http://zhouyi.sdu.edu.cn/yixueshiyanjiu/guwenshuang.htm

Click to expand...

I believe that for the Changes PRISONER is a metaphor for HUMAN BEING and PRISON for HUMAN EXISTENCE. Also compliant with the opposition SPIRIT (or SOUL) and BODY.

Yours,

Charly

Perhaps this is of interest
The Old Mother of the Waters, The Magic Vermicelli Page 221-222
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Myths and Legends of China, by E. T. C. Werner
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15250/15250-h/15250-h.htm#d0e3446

Charly and Lilly thank you for both resources.

wlloydw said:

Result could also be state of being. Then the list would be equally split. Is there are reason for difference?

Kun: Earth Accepts (action)
Xun: Wind adapts (action)
Li: Fire arising (action)
Qian: sky creating (action)

Kan Water is exposure (being)
Zhen: Thunder is arousal (being)
Dui: Lake is satisfaction (being)
Gen: Mountain is Still (being)

Click to expand...

8 gua is a dynamic.
e.g.
Kan gua represents all things which have water character.
If there is many cars moving on the road,such status also belongs to water trigram.
and if someone is in trouble,also belongs to water trigram,because water always flow down forever,so kan gua also represent dilemma status.that is why one solid line is surrounded(fall into) by 2 broken lines of kan sign.

It is a must to understand original meaning of every gua instead of specific representing.There was no network in ancient,but it is still represented by gui(癸）in I Ching.

I Ching is from natural law.and also it is better to learn some Chinese cultures.