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Hex. 59.6 and Spirituality

AnitaS

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Once again I'm thrown upon myself in my spiritual practice. I must understand again why I make my mistakes. I'm getting a new wooden altar of teak made for my new home. I was aghast when I discovered that they were putting in a plank of plywood at the back. I told them to replace that with teak. But I think it was a message to me in this difficult time. I thought it meant that I'm like that altar. Teak outside and plywood inside. My practice after so many years is still superficial. So I asked the Yi what the message could be and got 59.6. Disperse the blood? Leave? Does it mean that I'm scattered and must re-focus? Does it mean that replacing the plywood with teak would save me and my loved ones from harm?

Any thoughts?

Thank You!
 

angelatlantis14

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Once again I'm thrown upon myself in my spiritual practice. I must understand again why I make my mistakes. I'm getting a new wooden altar of teak made for my new home. I was aghast when I discovered that they were putting in a plank of plywood at the back. I told them to replace that with teak. But I think it was a message to me in this difficult time. I thought it meant that I'm like that altar. Teak outside and plywood inside. My practice after so many years is still superficial. So I asked the Yi what the message could be and got 59.6. Disperse the blood? Leave? Does it mean that I'm scattered and must re-focus? Does it mean that replacing the plywood with teak would save me and my loved ones from harm?

Any thoughts?

Thank You!

Hi circe,

first up, I do not believe that anyone who has taken spiritual practice for many years is "superficial" in that. So I would not take this incident of the plywood back as an image of yourself or your practice. Actually what I could imagine is that the answer of I Ching to your question does not refer to the altar, but to the dissatisfaction you are currently feeling with your practice. In my translation, line 6 says "Dispersing ones worry. Get out, keep a distance, go away. No fault." Could this not mean that the constant worry you feel over not being accomplished enough in your practice is what you should stop and get away from?"
59 describes wind moving over the water and of arriving at the temple - which might mean your spiritual development. So I'd interpret this as that you are on your way, but should give up your worries about not doing right.

This is what I would see in this reading, but it is only my personal interpretation.

Good luck with everything!

maui
 

AnitaS

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Thank you so much Maui. I hope you are right, but my spiritual teachers demand much from me and so do I. I'm definitely off track right now according to them and I can see why they think this way. It's just that at times like this, I begin to wonder whether I can fulfill my purpose.
 

gene

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Hi Circe

I am not sure I know the significance of the teak and all, and right now just a quick note and I will look at the hexagram later, but from what I can feel right now, I question whether you are "looking at the moon," or "looking at the finger pointing to the moon." It is important that spiritual practices be done for the sake of attaining a higher state of awareness, and not just going through a form for the sake of the form. You may have to let the form go, and become "formless." It is not the teak, or the plywood, but the sentiments of the heart that matter.

Anyway, will look at this more tonight.

Gene
 

gene

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Hexagram fifty nine is made up of the two trigrams water and wind. It also has the nuclear trigrams of thunder, lightning, and mountain. Water represents danger. It also represents darkness, or the soul locked up in the body. The upper trigram of wind disperses the darkness. The nuclear trigram mountain indicates an inner or a spiritual light. The nuclear hexagram is twenty seven, which indicates nourishment. Nourishment of the light dispels, (dissolves) the darkness. The way to dispel the darkness is through meditation, (the mountain). Meditation gives us that inner light and nourishes the light. It is the going within that produces spiritual advancement, the form is only a means to go within. So in order to dispel the darkness, we use a form that works for that purpose. The form itself is of no meaning except as a tool. Therefore, eventually we have to dissolve the form as well.

Whether the wood is teak or plywood may have meaning for us as a symbol. It is nice to have the teak in the house rather than the plywood. But the real key here is that we have to let go of our attachment to symbols, and look to the meaning behind the symbols. The goal is not elaborate rituals, but a quieting of the heart. (The mountain.) The symbols just help us do it. We must dissolve all that we depend on which is only the form that contains the real meaning. We must concentrate on the real meaning. There is no one form that being practiced makes us more spiritual. True spirituality is simply love, love being defined as harmony, even in disharmony. Hexagram twenty two teaches us that. It is only the content that matters, not the form. Eventually all form must dispense. (See hexagram sixty three line five.) In this sense, “The king approaches his temple, and we cross the great water.”

Perhaps if your teachers are not satisfied with your progress, it may be that they secretly are not satisfied with their own.

Gene
 

AnitaS

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Thank you Gene

No genuine teacher is satisfied with their progress. It is said that it is enlightened souls who make more mistakes - that's because they are more aware of themselves and after all we're human with the yin and yang in us - duality. The challenge is to transcend that as The Buddha did. We are taught that our world is a reflection of us. We create it and even our pets or an urchin is a teacher. I know what you say about form is true, but I think an altar needs our best, our respect since through it we may be enlightened. Gene, can you tell me what exactly the moving line 6 means?
 

gene

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circe

Line six, being the top line, is far away from the trigram meaning darkness. Perhaps it has made more progress than it thinks. It is above the nuclear trigram mountain, meaning stillness, meditation, and inner light, which indicates it has made a lot of progress. It is above the nuclear hexagram meaning nourishment, which means it is capable of nurturing itself and go within to find the light. It is the most advanced. To dissolve the blood means to dissolve the things that are most meaningful to us but not for our highest advancement. The main thing we have to be aware of is our loving nature. We must let that loving nature shine through. Everything else must be dissolved.

Gene
 

gene

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Hi Circe

Yes, but remember, enlightenment is not a goal that is finally reached. It is a never ending process that goes on eternally. There is no hurry, no rush, except that we must do the work continuously, but not with an eye to the ultimate goal. Just doing the work for its own sake. (See hexagram 25 line 2)

Gene
 

Lavalamp

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59.6 - Disperse your fears and anger, your anxiety about your spiritual evolution. Don't take it out on anybody.

Maybe you need a vacation, away from the influences that are making you feel crappy.
 
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AnitaS

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Thank you! Yes, I was looking for something specific too. Fears and anxiety - I sure have them, and I suppose some anger too. Gene you're right. Enlightenment is a process. I'm told though that it happens in an instant. Like some Zen master attaining it when listening to a stone hit bamboo!
 

gene

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Circe

What do you consider enlightenment to be?

Gene
 

bradford

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Disperse the blood? Leave? Does it mean that I'm scattered and must re-focus? Does it mean that replacing the plywood with teak would save me and my loved ones from harm?
Any thoughts?
Thank You!

It means cool off. Too heated. Chill. In Buddhist terms, reach for Upekkha or equanimity.
 

meng

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Or, let go of caring what your family (blood) or group thinks, and just build the temple. Marine grade birch veneer plywood would be much stronger and resilient than solid teak anyway.
 

ginnie

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To add to what others posted about 59.6: Yi considers you strong enough to let those anxieties go.
 

rodaki

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It's kinda funny but reading the word 'teak' throughout your posts, made me think of wood 'ticks', those miniscule creatures that, just like thoughts of perfection, or doubts, can bug us with their bites . . I wonder if (and this is merely a thought, ignore it if it feels untrue . .) you are measuring your spiritual growth in terms of how humbled you feel. Thinking that you might not be good enough, or pure enough, could be a side-way of, almost, inducing a state of humbleness and growth (like inducing a cleansing sweat thru too harsh a training) - that's what I first thought reading your post . .

It's an interesting reading: you are asking about the wood of the altar you're making and you get a hexagram speaking of building a temple with a changing line on trigram wood . . For me, this last line brings to mind of Noa's ark: complete, sturdy and ready to carry him across the floods, away from danger

To echo those that 've spoken before me, I think the line repeats, like the sound of lapping waves, that you can go a long way by leaving your worries behind . . regardless of plywood or teak, I think your altar (your inner self) can be trusted to carry you thru the storms safe and sound
 

gene

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rodaki is saying something very similar to what I was saying, only in very different words. The situation is such that you are seeking something that cannot be found while you are looking. It can only be found while you are not looking. Let me put it this way. Give up the struggle. It does not matter when enlightenment comes. It only matters that you prepare the way. Remember the words in hexagram nine line six? The rain comes when it will. You cannot make it rain (unless you know certain rain dances) All you can do is allow the clouds to accumulate. You do the work, do not presume on the results. (Hexagram twenty five line two) Give up the struggle. What we strive for is non striving. We seek effortless effort. The universe will decide when the time is right. Give up and let it go. That does not mean do not do the work, but we do the work for its own sake, not with an eye to the result.

Gene
 

AnitaS

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Thank you to all. Everyone is right. I love the answers I'm getting. Very interesting Rodaki - wood and building the temple. What I think enlightenment is? Difficult question Gene. It must be surrender. Letting go of the need to prove you're right. I don't think I'm there yet. I may never be. Look at the fan yao - hexagram 29 line 6. Tied up in prison with no way out for 3 years! I wonder whether this has to be taken into consideration. Perhaps it's describing how I'm feeling.
 

gene

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It seems to me there are several different types of enlightenment and some types have many different levels. May I make this suggestion for enlightenment in general? That there is a type of enlightenment that involves the connecting of the conscious mind with the subconscious, and this changes everything for us. The parable of Jesus and the wedding at Cana is a metaphor for this kind of enlightenment. This type I think could happen in an instant, but then, who ever achieves it? Very, very few. One might have been Jesus, another Lao Tzu, and the Buddha, but few others. It is something to desire, and yet it only happens when we are desireless. What a paradox!!! I certainly haven't achieved it. I have mentioned being enlightened on this website before, which got a number of people literally mocking me, but I was speaking in general terms about my overall state of awareness, not this type of true spiritual enlightenment. My knowledge is very, very extensive, but my spiritual life, very very weak.

My fate is what it is, and my path is what it is. I can only go out and meet my fate resolutely, (as is spoken of in the I Ching yet I know not where.) But the experiences I have are my fate, and they are there to teach me, as unpleasant as the experiences may be, they are important for my spiritual growth. If I knew all of my life's path it would endanger the mission so to speak. I wouldn't grow from it. All we can do is do the work. The more we anticipate the outcome, the more anxiety driven we become. The more anxiety driven we become, the more we set ourselves off from the universal forces that determine our life path, and the harder our road becomes. It is important to "Let go and let God."

I wish the deepest spiritual blessings on you Circe. Hope all is well in your country, and your neighborhood. You are in my prayers.

Gene
 

ginnie

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59.6 often comes when we are feeling emotional extremes. But the message of this line is that we are strong enough to let go of anything dangerous or strong enough to send the trouble far away from us, where it cannot do harm to us or those close to us. In most cases, the trouble exists mainly inside our own mind, so the message is to calm down. Don't look at the fan yao, circe. If Yi had wanted you to think you're in prison for the next three years, it would have given you 29.6, not 59.6.
:)
 

Trojina

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Why do you buy into all this humility nonsense anyway ? The biggest egotists are those who proclaim how humble they are blah blah,,,,you know they have humility contests :rolleyes:

59.6 shows you do well to get away from these people.

Be who you are without their pompous judgments.

Just being who you are is humility enough. If someone is reciting a lengthy sermon on humility they generally don't really have much of it themselves.
 

Trojina

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You can't be exiled from your own spirituality anyway. It is always yours. It is never owned by those who deliver long sermons on it. Nothing stands between you and spirit....ever !
 

Trojina

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And there I go and get the same line again and this time too I'm out on my ass so that I can understand and realise my mistakes. Maybe 59 line 6 also has to do with being in a state of banishment, of spiritual exile. This time I asked the Yi how to be more humble because I know I lack humility and this is the line I got.

Oh I thought you meant your religious organisation/temple had banished you into exile ?


But you didn't mean that ?
 
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Trojina

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If I abandon the path - we all need the right guidance and energy - there can only be misery and insanity.


You are saying if you don't follow this path, at this temple, you will be miserable and go insane ?

What is your path ? What religion is it ?
 

Trojina

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They have, Yes. But although I can't go to the Temple to pray, I have access to my spiritual mentors who even now are guiding me.


Ooops crossed posts. What kind of religion stops someone going to the temple to pray ?
 

Trojina

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Today the building contractor who cheated me and wants even more money turned up at my gate and was only deterred because of my barking doggies. Eventually he left, but not without some harsh words. I decided then to go to the police to report him. I was about to leave when one of the sanyasins turned up to give me some advice before I left. And the advice always includes the suggestion to look within for the causes of the circumstances we face. To reflect, as they say. I don't always find the answers right away, but things change for the better when I do. As within, so without. Of course, often these are karmic results brought on from previous lives, but often they are just manifestations of our attitudes and deeds. It's not easy, but it's the only way and it's always an adventure. I am told it is actually very easy. I'd like to get there.

Can be a convenient belief system if you have no wish to change social or economic conditions or want to see justifications for all the inequlaities in the world. I'm well aware of the idea of karma and rebirth, but from that one cannot ever judge another's karma as we simply don't know.

It can be a cruel thing to say, as your 'sanyasin' did, to someone who has been robbed or cheated that it is due to their karma or their inner conditions. There are many in the world, in your country also, who don't have enough to eat, who are homeless and so on. Is that all down to their 'attitudes and deeds' ?

My aunt is 82 years old and her purse was stolen the other day when she was out shopping. I don't think that was down to karma I think it was down to the fact that there are people out there who prey on the elderly !



I don't think the 59.6 refers to your banishment, it's telling you to banish them. They seem like harmful people to stop you praying at the temple and when you have been cheated and robbed to warble on self righteously about karma. They don't seem to have much compassion....but they do seem to think they hold the key to the universe enlightenment and everything.

I know you won't agree with me but I do think in any case what the reading is clearly saying is to get away from these people.



It's not a religion, nor a cult. I'd rather not divulge it, but you will get kicked out if you keep making the same mistakes and if you are serious about your practice. If you're not, you won't get kicked out. I am very serious about my spiritual goal. My ancestors also depend on it. If you make an effort, you can always get back. Some people - like me - learn the hard way. They need shocks and knocks. It's not the first time it's happened to me. If you do go into the temple with that bad attitude and energy, you pollute everyone else with it. Why should other devotees suffer?

You think you polluted the temple ? You think you polluted everyone else in the temple ?

How so ?

How can that that idea that you polluted the temple also be consonant with this belief you gave earlier

And for that I must realise oneness - everyone is important, everyone is special,


From that I'd assume, everyone, no matter what, has a right to go and pray at their temple or church. I mean even in prison men have a right to do that...I think ?


You can pray whenever you want, you never lose your connection with God/ spirit/ IMO


Surely if you feel you have done wrong it is all the more reason for you to pray at the temple, not go away from it as punishment because you 'pollute' it.

It's your belief system, your choice, I'm not spending too long arguing against it but I just wanted to say my POV, especially as I think 59.6 is quite a strong warning line to get out of harms way.


I've asked what religion or cult it is and you prefer not to say.....fair enough but I am baffled in trying to imagine what it is....a branch off of Hinduism maybe ? I guess I can google 'sensai' and check it out

I used the word 'cult' because it is typical of cult behaviour to control members by punishment, through excluding them from the place of worship, telling them they 'pollute' the temple.

I don't know, but to my mind it can never be right to exclude a person from a temple because they 'pollute' it.
 
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AnitaS

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Please desist with this line of thinking. Yes we do create our world and people do suffer because of their own actions and thoughts - any Buddhist or Hindu will tell you that. Just read about the life of the Tibetan Saint Milarepa and you'll see how harsh a Guru's love can be and how it turned a murderer into a saint. I expect you to answer my question, not attack my spiritual path. And line 6 could just mean that I have to dissolve my bad attitude.
 
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Trojina

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Oh I don't argue that there is no karma, I just say that it is a mystery and I don't think we can ever say for example "that man is in a wheelchair because he did something wrong in a previous life". We simply don't know, it is beyond us to know and it is I believe dangerous to say we know because then not only has a person their suffering to contend with but also the false judgements of those who declare it is their karma.

So there may certainly be karma, but you or I don't know how it manifests on an individual level.

I do know the fundamentals of Buddhists idea of rebirth and so on. However I don't think they claim to know exactly how it plays out for others.

Moreover you need to know that not all misfortunes are down to karma. You need to know this in order to understand hexagram 25 for example. Sometimes bad things happen. That's how it is. Not for one moment do I think for example that my aunt's stolen purse was due to her karma. I think an opportunistic thief took advantage of an elderly lady. It was probably the same with your building contractor. It isn't unusual for people to be cheated by contractors. We have entire TV shows here about how people were robbed by unscrupulous builders. Those who have been cheated don't sit back and say "oh I must have done something wrong in a previous life and I am a bad person for being cheated". They phone the TV show and get the robbers tracked down so they don't do it to other people which is a far more useful course of action IMO.


I didn't understand how these people can say that you polluted their temple ? I just can't imagine any Buddhist saying this ? That's why I asked what kind of path this was.

I had to include these thoughts about karma to explain to you why I thought 59.6 was telling you to get free of these people. I appreciate you don't agree, that's fine, I'm just giving another POV and also am slightly concerned for you as I have been in the past that you follow these people who tell you you are like 'pollution'
 

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