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Thread: Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 47

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    Default Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 47

    I figured I should write the intro post to each of these threads in the spirit of the thread.

    So it is with great weariness of spirit I enter 'your experiences with 47uc' thread

    Sigh




    Dear oh dear.

    Anyway the pair, 47/48 ?

    Lise once succinctly wrote :

    The individual in the world

    47 - The restrictions and challenges of being an individual
    48 - The inspiration of the individual.
    Hmm

    I must have said before than when I get an unchanging hexagram as answer it is especially helpful to also see it's pair. I haven't thought much about 47/48 as a pair yet so what does Hilary say of it.

    Confined forms a pair with Hexagram 48 the well:

    'The well is wholly connected; confined means meeting together'.

    By it's nature, the well is already limitlessly connected, while the confined tree must reach down towards the water table. Reaching inward you find help. Outwardly, the oppressive walls are unbroken - but what might the inner space open on to ?
    I think if I get 47uc the first question to myself is 'is this a mood or self imposed disconnection from support or possibilities for life to flow on ?'. The lines can have a mocking tone as I think Bradford has highlighted in his commentaries. Line 1 for example, 'oh dear oh dear poor me' , that kind of thing.

    I have the idea from my own experience with 47uc there is often more of a suggestion of actual outer confinement. In 46uc growth seems without bounds. Quite the reverse in 47 uc.


    One 47uc experience of mine.

    I had been renting back rooms of shops to see clients. For various reasons I thought it might be easier and cheaper to see them at my home. My home is a very very tiny flat. It is so tiny that in order to receive people and use a treatment couch I would have to move things around to accommodate it. And then move them all back afterwards. I asked Yi about working from here and got 47uc. I'd say it was pretty literal. Talk about confined ! Anyway I did try it and it didn't work for me. The amount of time spent moving things out of the way and then putting them back made it not feasible. Also at that time the roof was leaking in a few places...so overall, you get the picture not a great environment to work from. So I'd say overall I didn't have enough space to grow anything here. I think 47 was just pointing that out.


    What does Wing say ?

    TUI, pleasure, in the upper trigram of cosmic ideals, is moving up and out of reach of K'AN, difficulty, in the lower trigram of human affairs. When no changing lines are received, the implication is that, in regard to your inquiry, you are oppressed to the point of exhaustion. Continued ADVERSITY is increasingly disheartening. Nothing that you can say will make a difference. There is little you can do to significantly alter the situation. Only your inner strength can help you endure. Only you can know whether its worth it.
    Does anyone recall any experiences of their own where 47uc was the answer ?

    I doubt it, but still I must plough on I suppose









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    Hi, Trojina:

    Pretty new name. I promised you yesterday (1) that I was going to make some contribution perhaps not entirely based on own experiences but in my intents of literal translation of the received chinese text.

    I always see H.47 HARD PRESSING as an image of joy and life, no matters the hard circumstances. Maybe hard work of struggling for life. I saw the tree in the ring reminiscent of the GARDEN OF EDEN, full of JOY OF LIFE. Maybe challenging God's mandate, trusting in the promise of the snake, feeling like Gods. Of course, nobody´s perfect.

    Going to the literal translation:


    困亨
    kun4 heng1
    HARD-PRESSING FEAST.
    Celebration of pressing hard, or of being hard pressed.

    貞大人吉
    zhen1 da4ren2 ji2
    OMEN GREAT MAN LUCKY.
    Previsibly fortunate for the Big Man.

    无咎
    wu2 jiu4
    NO WRONG.
    Maybe it looks like not being too correct, but it´s not so.

    有言不信
    you3 yan2 bu4 xin4
    THERE ARE WORDS UNBELIEVABLE.
    Believe it or not.


    Maybe the tree looks like a prisoner, but he is a lucky prisoner. Maybe the wall at first seems stronger, but the tree at last, in the long term, always defeats the wall. The root is stronger than stone.

    (to be continued)


    All the best,


    Charly

    __________________________________________
    (1) Say, some year ago. Better late than never.

    Ch.

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    Maybe the tree looks like a prisoner, but he is a lucky prisoner. Maybe the wall at first seems stronger, but the tree at last, in the long term, always defeats the wall. The root is stronger than stone.
    Yes..this is what is said in the Image, from Hilary's book

    'Lake without water: Confined.
    A noble one carries out the mandate, fulfils her aspiration.'

    The lake water has all drained away into the stream below. Where there might have been a sparkling centre of vitality, communication and exchange, there is no water left - no energy for communication.

    Even in such straits, a noble one is still active. The lake water drained downward and inward, merging with the stream in a single, strong current. In the same way, a noble one lets her mandate, what she is called to do - flow together with the aspiration of her own heart. The two strengthen one another and create an inner momentum that follows through to fulfilment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojina View Post
    Yes..this is what is said in the Image, from Hilary's book
    Hi, Trojina:

    I always felt that H.47 image had a strange begining: LAKE WITHOUT WATER instead of LAKE ABOVE, WATER BELOW. Maybe it was for making the image fit te standard sense of KUN, the name of the hexagram.

    The character translated LAKE means MARSH / POND / TRANQUIL WATERS, residence of great diversity of living beings, animals and plants. It´s also said to be the YOUNGER SISTER meaning JOY.

    The character translated WATER means also RIVER / STREAM / MOVING WATERS, said to be the MIDDLE BROTHER meaning DEEP and DANGEROUS.

    Let us imagine that the inner STREAM is feeding the POND, that there is an INNER SOURCE for the JOY OF LIFE, that the LITTLE SISTER goes UP and the MIDDLE BROTHER goes DAWN. Unbelievable?

    Deep and dangerous, the stream, the inner source, the unconscious. Outer joy, the joyous character, full of life, even in the worst contexts.

    PRESSION instead of OPPRESSION. FILLED instead of DRAINED.

    Do not you think so?

    Yours,


    Charly

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    While about 80% of my 47uc readings have referred to an inner condition of my mind, the other 20% have referred to actual physical exhaustion. The treatment is sometimes the same for each: rest. Energy drain, whether mental or physical, is like a rechargeable battery. But our system is more complex than a simple battery, and that means different times and circumstances call for different methods of renewal. They are many, but to name just a few: removing the source of pressure, mental or physical, can suddenly fill us with fresh energy/water. Introducing something new and interesting to our life can wake up our life spring to refill our lake. Singular focusing on our body's tension and releasing that blockage can refill us. For example, I can drop my body's blood pressure in less than 30 seconds, simply by focusing on relaxing tension in my body. That lets the river or spring flow more freely through the entire ecosystem of my body, and most of that is ultimately controlled by my mind. So often release of pressure is all that's needed to start refilling the lake, like releasing water from a dam. Trying harder in these cases usually produces just the opposite effect, trying too hard for too long is often the cause of exhaustion, mental and physical, in the first place. Rain results from heavy clouds releasing its moisture, springs flow when obstacles are removed. Fresh ideas spring energy upward, release brings relief, and sometimes brings the rest we need to recover and recharge.

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    PRESSION instead of OPPRESSION. FILLED instead of DRAINED.

    Do not you think so?
    Is 'pression' a word ? Not sure. I can't really answer you as I'm not focusing on alternative translations here just on how people have experienced 47uc. If I bend my tiny mind to alternative translations that are the reverse of other translations I get a bit side tracked. I think one discovers the I Ching through experience not only translation ....I mean hopefully both together. I've asked you before if you consult Yi ? Do you ask questions ? I don't think you said. It would be great if you can supplement your ideas about the translation of 47 with some real life examples. That would be fun ! For myself I don't believe someone's translation without actually using it in real life and feeling my way into it. In fact I think we discover Yi through real life along side translation. That's why I want to hear your experiences with questions and answers.


    Thinking about the pair 47/48 I feel 47 is a time when there are no outer resources one only has one's inner resources to fall back on.. At 47 times in fact one is forced to find inner resources. One will feel forced to find inner resources when abandoned, left without hope or opportunity. Communication with others is not the way through, words are not heard so what is left ?
    If you are in a prison cell how can you survive mentally ? Advise in the Judgement and the Image tells you how. From Wilhelm :

    'OPPRESSION. Success. Perseverance.
    The great man brings about good fortune.
    No blame.
    When one has something to say,
    It is not believed.'

    "When a strong man meets with adversity, he remains cheerful despite all danger, and this cheerfulness is the source of later successes; it is that stability which is stronger than fate. He who lets his spirit be broken by exhaustion certainly has no success"
    In prison literally confined by walls with no one listening to a word you say how do you cope and make your inner resources deeper and stronger to sustain you ? No one develops deeper resources in easy times.

    Anyway yes it is an opportunity for deeper roots. If a tree can't grow outwards it grows deeper roots. Actually is that factually true or did I make that up...? I don't know but I like the analogy.

    Thinking about it I notice when I receive 48 as a relating hexagram I often find the issue I ask about is resolved through the collective in some way. It's not all down to me, there are other resources to draw on. Often with 48 as relating whilst I am thinking of what to do next a bunch of other people are also working on it and I get carried along . With 47 it's not like that. It's down to me and moreover no one is much interested in my problem. The good side of this is I make stronger inner resource, I get to myself. I liked how Hilary put it

    "In the same way, a noble one lets her mandate, what she is called to do - flow together with the aspiration of her own heart. The two strengthen one another and create an inner momentum that follows through to fulfilment. "

    I can't be sure, will have to have a better look, but I have the idea in it's unchanging form 47 more often indicates an actual literal restriction or confinement of some kind. I'm not saying that is always true it's just an impression I currently have.

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    I can't be sure, will have to have a better look, but I have the idea in it's unchanging form 47 more often indicates an actual literal restriction or confinement of some kind. I'm not saying that is always true it's just an impression I currently have.
    I've told this story here before, but might as well put it in the official unchanging thread: the first time I ever got 47uc,when I was just learning the yi, what Trojina writes above was the case. I was doing castings about things I had no emotional attachment to, the better to learn, so I asked about lunch that day and got 47uc. So of course I DID get emotional, it sounds so awful--will I go to prison etc etc?

    I went down to the parking lot with trepidation . . . and found my car was blocked in by a fire truck. I actually sat on the curb and laughed. There were even officials wearing red! After about ten minutes my car was freed. It was a great lesson for me.

    But most of the time (as we have discussed elsewhere), for me 47 in all its forms refers to an inner state rather than an outer one. My nickname for it is "putting yourself in a box."

    Here's one actual example: A couple of years ago I asked nervously about whether I should agree to be cast in a certain role I'd been offered. I can't recall why I was so reluctant--I know I was busy, for one thing, and it was a large role with a big line load; but also, although I liked the play, I thought most people would not like it at all. I got 47uc.

    My notes say: "I ended up doing it, and it was one of the best experiences I’ve had in theater, a great breakthrough for me as an actor as well." Also it was a huge hit, audiences loved it and we extended the run. So in that case, what Trojina writes--

    self imposed disconnection from support or possibilities for life to flow on
    was exactly what yi meant.

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    Hi, Trojina:
    [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojina View Post
    Is 'pression' a word ? Not sure.
    Of course, it is, it means PRESSURE (1). Impression, expression, oppression, repression, are words. I don´t like the last two. Repression applied to texts means censorship and / or burning books.

    I can't really answer you as I'm not focusing on alternative translations here just on how people have experienced 47uc. If I bend my tiny mind to alternative translations that are the reverse of other translations I get a bit side tracked.
    But the interesting with an ancient chinese text is that it allows multiple translations, parallell discourses, crossed or opposite discourses, sometimes entangled ways of feeling and thinking. I believe in literal translation previous to interpretation, I don´t like alternative translations with the mere goal of going against accepted cannonical ideas.

    I think one discovers the I Ching through experience not only translation ....I mean hopefully both together. I've asked you before if you consult Yi ? Do you ask questions ?
    I agree with you that one discovers the I Ching using it. Sometimes even with bad translations. It happened to me. But soon I got Wilhelm/Malke (something like Wilhelm/Baynes but in spanish) I liked it and used it by more than 30 years during which I used it for myself, for friends, mainly girls, and for casual consults. It wasn't until I read LiSe's Book of Moon that I began to translate myself and to write.

    I don't think you said. It would be great if you can supplement your ideas about the translation of 47 with some real life examples. That would be fun !
    I don't keep records of consults and don't remember of getting H.47 unchanged, but when I got my first Chinese text, the Great Image, I made a quantitative lexical analysis (I am a psychologist and statistician). Ordering the chinese characters by frequency of occurrence I got a Chinese pseudo speech that ended with some sense, I don't know if deep, on character KUN, the surrounded the tree, that I no longer remember because I lost the copy. What I remember is the feeling that the tree was enjoying life in the middle of a secret garden and that the own life or destiny forced him to surpass his prison.

    For myself I don't believe someone's translation without actually using it in real life and feeling my way into it.
    My translations are applicable to real life, only that not the life of kings and knights but of common imperfect people always needy of love, health and money.

    From time to time I´ve posted in shared readings, my advice always based in literal translation was not always rejected although sometimes I lack of good manners. I never claimed to be a master.

    In fact I think we discover Yi through real life along side translation. That's why I want to hear your experiences with questions and answers.
    If you want, ask. But beware, it can fail. And you will have always the last word if something doesn't fit to you. That's what I say to my occasional customers.

    ...
    I can't be sure, will have to have a better look, but I have the idea in it's unchanging form 47 more often indicates an actual literal restriction or confinement of some kind. I'm not saying that is always true it's just an impression I currently have.
    We agree, often but not always. Things change, the Change changes, impressions change.

    All the best,


    Charly

    ___________________________________
    (1)
    pres·sion noun \ˈpreshən\

    Full Definition of PRESSION: pressing, pressure

    Origin of PRESSION: Latin pression-, pressio, from pressus (past participle of premere to press) + -ion-, -io -ion — more at press

    This word doesn't usually appear in our free dictionary, but the definition from our premium Unabridged Dictionary is offered here on a limited basis. Note that some information is displayed differently in the Unabridged.

    Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pression
    Ch.

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    What I remember is the feeling that the tree was enjoying life in the middle of a secret garden and that the own life or destiny forced him to surpass his prison.
    That pretty much ties up with other's experiences here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojina View Post
    That pretty much ties up with other's experiences here.
    Hi Trojina:

    In spite of differences we have much in common.

    When I'm doing a consult for myself or helping somebody to read an answer I often had no fixed translation, although literal two translations of the same line or hexagram can be different, depending on the asking, the contex and , believe it or not, final interpretation!



    Ming Don Gu
    Chinese Theories of Reading and Writing
    Availabe at Google Books
    Yours,

    Charly

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