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32.4

rodaki

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32.4 is a line I rarely ever get.

In the past I've toyed around with 2 different meanings I came across while searching the archives here; one, the most usual, that we're looking at the wrong spot, the 2nd, a bit more unusual, that the space we dwell on seems to lack spontaneity . . yet today there's a different meaning I'm experimenting with, the one that shows one having false expectations . . not, that is, of one 'looking for the right thing in the wrong place', but instead of 'looking for the wrong thing in the right place' . .


Let me unwrap this a little; hx 32 is one used to describe the maintenance of a steady structure, such as that of a marriage, or else, long-term commitment. What we think of as appropriate in order to maintain it though, is often heavily influenced by perceptions and social standards which, unfortunately, do not always a happy 'marriage' make.

Which leads me to wonder, could 32.4 be admonishing us, of sorts, to keep our eyes open for the game that is truly at stake and around instead of whining for the supposed 'big kahuna' that seems lacking?



(mind you, I don't mean this to the exclusion of other meanings, more of an addendum to them)


ETA: (a-ha moment) I just went and read Bradford's commentary, which, I think, takes a similar approach to that line . .

To be a finder and come home with nourishing meals, look to the real conditions and contexts, where threads, traces, tracks and trails leave clues. The ideals will not leave such tracks, nor do they do much for hunger
 

Tohpol

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32.4 is a line I rarely ever get.

In the past I've toyed around with 2 different meanings I came across while searching the archives here; one, the most usual, that we're looking at the wrong spot, the 2nd, a bit more unusual, that the space we dwell on seems to lack spontaneity . . yet today there's a different meaning I'm experimenting with, the one that shows one having false expectations . . not, that is, of one 'looking for the right thing in the wrong place', but instead of 'looking for the wrong thing in the right place' . .

I had this line quite a number of times about 3 years ago. It kept coming up until I finally managed to get what it was talking about. I think it can be both of those polarities you mention heavily invested in some kind of hunt within a "marriage" be it business, relationship, treasure, research etc. Which means: right place, wrong intent or wrong place right intent. Either way, there's nothing there at that particular juncture. Nothing personal says Yi, and please don't howl with frustration - that's just the way it is. It's a line that really cheesed me off on a number of occasions since I was convinced there WAS something there. And I been on both ends of the spectrum. ('Looking for the wrong thing in the right place.')

Let me unwrap this a little; hx 32 is one used to describe the maintenance of a steady structure, such as that of a marriage, or else, long-term commitment. What we think of as appropriate in order to maintain it though, is often heavily influenced by perceptions and social standards which, unfortunately, do not always a happy 'marriage' make.

Which leads me to wonder, could 32.4 be admonishing us, of sorts, to keep our eyes open for the game that is truly at stake and around instead of whining for the supposed 'big kahuna' that seems lacking?

Yes. I think that's precisely what that line seems to be saying. At least it was in my experience. From either pole, there was always the insistence found in 32 that the "duration" persistence and endurance was the important principle and that is was so easy to be distracted to act too soon. Obviously, we are into Taoist territory which I think we sometimes forget. The I Ching philosophy is very big on trusting the cycles and changes of the Universe, accumulating energy and aligning ourselves with these "streams" thereby getting closer to the essence and quality of an action - or an action in vitro - so that we bring forth truest result. 32 has been real drudgery for me in that context and most certainly 32.4. Ugh. I always imagine a somewhat sardonic expression from the Yi when that line arrives.

But yes, I think there is certainly something in this line that brings us down to earth and encourages us to keep the eyes on the prize, sometimes well beyond are notions of what it right and reasonable. It's a strangely paradoxical line for me too, in that it rains on your parade but not just because one's focus or place may be off, but because there is something much greater than the hunt, if you can just let go for a while that gold will come to you through applying persistence but also faith and trust that the Universe operates and responds in an almost mathematical ratio of effort married with the ability to surrender. And that fits perfectly with the fan yao of 46 where the goal is attained through reaching an important staging post along the way.

I like Bradford's rendering. There is that impression isn't there? Keep it real i.e. as objective as you can - no fantasy and detours - as you continue to persist.
 

ernobe

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32.4 is a line I rarely ever get.
. . yet today there's a different meaning I'm experimenting with, the one that shows one having false expectations . . not, that is, of one 'looking for the right thing in the wrong place', but instead of 'looking for the wrong thing in the right place' . .
.
Contrary to Bradford, you got the meaning of the line right the first time, but I think weren't able to make the appropriate connection to the previous line as Wilhelm translates it. 32.3 is where one meets with whining about the 'big kahuna' lacking in us, and in 32.4 we realize that we should be looking for the right thing elsewhere.
 

Olga Super Star

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I just got this line yesterday. With no surprise.
In my situation it can't be something else in the right place, because there's only one thing I can get in that place. So it means the place must be wrong - at least for now.

What I was wondering is if that 32 doesn't mean that things are going to be like that for a long time.
I still don't get the concept of duration in 32
 

rodaki

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hi everyone

@ernobe & olga: I hear you and there have been times when the usual interpr. stood correct for me too BUT there are times when it's useful to explore other options, especially since divination is a fluid practice and lines must have multiple meanings to be able to cover all possible permutations of circumstance . this is one such time for me.

I do think, btw, that 32 often means that things remain 'like that' for a long time, unless we ourselves change our perspective, (it reminds me of that quote [ if you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got;, which, btw, came up for me last time I was discussing marriage woes with a friend of mine).

Olga, I"m not sure I understand what you mean when you say you don;t get duration in 32 . . you mean as in what kind of duration is depicted? I personally find the trigrams imagery very helpful in that



@Topal
'32 has been real drudgery for me in that context and most certainly 32.4. Ugh. I always imagine a somewhat sardonic expression from the Yi when that line arrives.' :D for that . . I think I know what you mean!

I'd love to hear more about the last bit of your post . .

I think there is certainly something in this line that brings us down to earth and encourages us to keep the eyes on the prize, sometimes well beyond are notions of what it right and reasonable. It's a strangely paradoxical line for me too, in that it rains on your parade but not just because one's focus or place may be off, but because there is something much greater than the hunt, if you can just let go for a while that gold will come to you through applying persistence but also faith and trust that the Universe operates and responds in an almost mathematical ratio of effort married with the ability to surrender

that was interesting for me cause I think you might be hitting at something more than what I had in mind . . see, when I had this reading I was doubting the survival chances of something that is slowly appearing in my life, and part of my doubts has to do with more traditional ideas on what works and what not. So when I got this line (among others) in my reading, it felt as if Yi was commenting on my doubts with a

'hmmm, now these (given) ideas isn't what you should really be looking at/for . . there are other things more important to consider here'


but I have the feeling yours was perhaps a different experience(?). Would you mind elaborating a bit more on it?
 

Tim K

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I've written about it before, but I'll repeat my experience here.

Will I find this and that at this shop? Is it a good idea to go there (5-6 bus stops). 32.4

Decided not to, and later I've found out that the shopping center was closed because of a fire a few days before.
 

rodaki

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nice one Ashteroid, hadn't come across it before!
 

Olga Super Star

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Olga, I"m not sure I understand what you mean when you say you don;t get duration in 32 . . you mean as in what kind of duration is depicted? I personally find the trigrams imagery very helpful in that
exactly. I am not sure whether it means that things are going to stay like that for a while or if it's my intention and commitment into this relation which is enduring..
 
D

diamanda

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exactly. I am not sure whether it means that things are going to stay like that for a while or if it's my intention and commitment into this relation which is enduring..
A lot depends on how the question is phrased. But in general I've found that with 32 unchanging, things remain the same for quite a while, regardless of intentions/actions.
 

Tohpol

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'32 has been real drudgery for me in that context and most certainly 32.4. Ugh. I always imagine a somewhat sardonic expression from the Yi when that line arrives.' :D for that . . I think I know what you mean!

I'd love to hear more about the last bit of your post . .

that was interesting for me cause I think you might be hitting at something more than what I had in mind . . see, when I had this reading I was doubting the survival chances of something that is slowly appearing in my life, and part of my doubts has to do with more traditional ideas on what works and what not. So when I got this line (among others) in my reading, it felt as if Yi was commenting on my doubts with a

'hmmm, now these (given) ideas isn't what you should really be looking at/for . . there are other things more important to consider here'

but I have the feeling yours was perhaps a different experience(?). Would you mind elaborating a bit more on it?

I have had exactly the same more abstract response where it goes directly to a line of thinking which is going nowhere. So, yours was an example of the Yi commenting on your specific doubts and saying literally: "There is no game in the field." Why persist thinking in this way?

32 at its most traditional in terms of the texts, is one of endurance and constancy, in other words, building our will. This can be transposed to marriage as a waiting period in the sense of H.22.3 ( making yourself "beautiful" while growing) and H.5 waiting, but with a real emphasis on the ability to endure. It has something real in store for the future as opposed to 54 marriage which more about cultivating patience in relation to perceived status.

I think this line can reflect those doubts, and go to the heart of our predicament even when we are not so conscious of it. Something more important is here, yes, and something worth waiting for. But to realise it, we need will. After all, if we need to cultivate endurance and persistence and we doubt, we interfere with that process. Yet, paradoxically, we need a quota of healthy doubt in order to maintain discernment and discrimination.

In summary, I see 32 highlighting the qualities of endurance, constancy, persistence - even dedication - over time to represent some type of "marriage" in the future. It's a reminder that we can transcend petty desires (and doubts) and bag a bigger sense of self. But along the way, it can seem like the "game" and even the "field" are permanently out of reach. That's the friction needed for that endurance to be forged. And it's for that reason that H.32 can be such a frustrating hexagram to receive. Line 4 keeps us on track, much as we may grumble about it.:D

Not sure if that has answered your question Rodaki...
 

Trojina

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Not read entire thread but have the gist. Well this is a line I have doubted the usual meaning of for some time simply because I have had several experiences where there certainly was 'game in the field', no doubt about it. Last year I asked what I needed to know about moving, at that time there was nothing on the horizon at all but a month later I was offered a really nice flat which I took.

Another example was hospital course for a health condition. Despite the 32.4 I had about it I took the course as there really was no good reason not to and I found it very helpful.

:confused:

This is odd because I had previously had the exact same experience as Ash re a closed shop.

So I'm not sure about this but I think 'the field' is somewhere very localised perhaps in the way you think of it. My current theory is perhaps when asking of something very narrow, localised, like 'how about using that shop ?' then 32.4 acts as one might expect it to in saying 'you're looking in the wrong place'. However when questions get shall we say 'bigger', less defined, less specific, then 32.4 suggests we are narrowing how we see opportunities down to one field but actually the hunting ground is not only wider but also unforeseeable.

Not sure if that makes sense but it boils down to this perhaps "you are seeking to endure and continue your efforts within an narrowly defined area of interest or opportunity. That field is not especially 'where it's at'. There are countless wider fields beyond this small field you are hunting in. "

So where as I used to take this line as somewhat hopeless I no longer do. I think it's a question of focus.

Concentration of attention in any activity means we must narrow focus. To endure in study for example we must narrow our sphere of attention to the book in front of us. All well and good. But in larger things where we may be trying to be 'constant' and endure by focusing on a narrow slice of potential that doesn't work so well. I'm thinking now 32.4 asks you to take your eyes off the book and look at the sky or look out of the window so to speak. The field you stare at and seek to concentrate your constancy on is not going to yield anything to you but that does not mean there is nothing for you, just not something in that particular place.

The line is still somewhat a mystery. Perhaps in the hospital course example it was saying 'you are thinking of this in one way but that isn't what it is at all, it's much bigger than that' which it was. Perhaps with the flat I was thinking of moving in a particular way when I asked the question, can't remember

I'm not sure but I do see this line in a far more positive way now. Also bear in mind this is a totally neutral line, there is no auspice for good or ill. It merely says, from Hilary's book

'In the field, no game.'


Where a line is completely neutral with no auspice for good fortune or misfortune I think it's important to note that. This is just a statement of fact....this narrow area you look at, there's nothing there. Many commentaries have I think attached misfortune to this which I don't think is helpful

ETA don't think I added much new here except new to myself is the idea of 32 as connecting with persistence of focus which here doesn't work. But there is absolutely no judgement with the line so I think it is important not to read that into it.. It might be worth looking at the line pathway...
 

Trojina

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The line pathway is as follows ;

32.4
46.4
45.3
31.3

The 2 middle ones 46.4 and 45.3 can describe how 32.4 might feel from the inside. It sort of looks like an ideal that cannot be realised but where one is tempted to throw more and more energy.

Basically I think it is 'lift your eyes up from this field'.
 

rodaki

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(this will be a very short post cause I don't have much time in my hands)

Topal I looooved your post, very precise and eloquent and yes, it hasn't sunk in in full yet because I went thru it quickly but it lit some light bulbs already!! :)

Trojina, I'll be back to study your posts as soon as I can (curious to read thru your pathway thoughts)

thanks guys!!

(btw, this line keeps coming up these days repeatedly, like egging me to sink my teeth deeper in it . .)
 

rodaki

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just quoting here a couple of things . .


Not sure if that makes sense but it boils down to this perhaps "you are seeking to endure and continue your efforts within an narrowly defined area of interest or opportunity. That field is not especially 'where it's at'


The field you stare at and seek to concentrate your constancy on is not going to yield anything to you but that does not mean there is nothing for you, just not something in that particular place.

this 2nd part made me think of sayings like missing the forrest to the tree, that kind of narrow focus that misses the point . . the objection I always have in my inner debate:)hissy:) abt the line, is that we have narrow focus because we need something specific goddamnit - ahem . . this is a bit like going out to buy some milk but there's none left - there is some delicious low-fat fresh cream and greek yoghurt, there's even some amazing new cheese spread but but . . I'm sure you get my drift ;)

(is it me or is Yi a nicely lit and peacefully smiling tao-seller at this point? ahemtwice)


the pathway gives way too much new info to put it all together in a solid way . .
now 'solid', that would be another way to understand 32, as being 'solid', not flaky . . not sure how to tie this into this answer though


What I liked so much about Topal's perspective on this is that it feels very grounding in a positive way, like putting down roots, which fits 46 nicely too. Stay the course, steady the heart
 

Tohpol

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this 2nd part made me think of sayings like missing the forrest to the tree, that kind of narrow focus that misses the point . . the objection I always have in my inner debate:)hissy:) abt the line, is that we have narrow focus because we need something specific goddamnit - ahem . . this is a bit like going out to buy some milk but there's none left - there is some delicious low-fat fresh cream and greek yoghurt, there's even some amazing new cheese spread but but . . I'm sure you get my drift ;)

Oh yes. :D It's exactly like that. It's our monkey mind wanting answers on a plate without having to make an effort. But it's the effort that creates the spark of understanding isn't it? But yes, I often grit my teeth at those answers which I can tell are designed for contemplation. Spoon-feeding the Yi doesn't tend to do - at least most of the time. Unless you're in a pitiful state...:hissy:
(is it me or is Yi a nicely lit and peacefully smiling tao-seller at this point? ahem twice)

No, it's not you - that's spot on! And it's the peaceful smile that drives me crazy...:D

the pathway gives way too much new info to put it all together in a solid way . .
now 'solid', that would be another way to understand 32, as being 'solid', not flaky . . not sure how to tie this into this answer though

What I liked so much about Topal's perspective on this is that it feels very grounding in a positive way, like putting down roots, which fits 46 nicely too. Stay the course, steady the heart

Yes, 32 does have that solid, rock-like feel about it, kinda like rolling a boulder up a hill - eventually it'll topple over the crest and our new body will be rippling with the muscles of knowledge and experience which hopefully leads to wisdom - which can be shared. As you say, very 46. And 53 come to that. 32 is very much encouraging in that way but also quite unforgiving - notably line 4 - as Truth usually is: (You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! But here it is anyway! (hat tip to Jack Nicolson and Tom Cruise)
 
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rosada

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Although the title of 32.Duration suggests this hexagram may be about staying with something through thick and thin, when you read the lines it seems to me it's advice about the problem of having committed to a course of action you don't wish to continue.
Note how 32 follows 31.6, the line about words having no enduring influence. So 32 is about what happens when you allow your self to be influenced - talked into something - that isn't really your thing.
32.1 Too quickly committing
32.2 Rectify the situation right away and there wont be a problem.
32.3 But if you made a solid commitment then you have to fulfill it.
32.4 But know there's no other reason really why you're staying.
32.5 So if you've made a commitment fulfill it, but at the same time don't make more commitments.(Kinda like 2.3)
32.6 After this experience IC says we hope you've learned your lesson about making commitments too soon because getting into things and then having to wriggle out of them is not a recipe for success!

Interesting that the next hexagram is 33.Retreat - Gracefully getting the heck outta here...
 
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rosada

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I had an ah-ha! moment about 32.4 after writing out all of the above earlier today. I got that 32.4 "No game in the field" can mean there's nothing more for you to do here, like if you are assigned to round up all the game and when it's been done, there's no need to continue hanging out in the field. Or if you have made a buy on the stock market and the stock is going up this line would indicate a good sell point, no need to endure, the stock isn't going up any further.

I think the lines of 32. can be understood as advice about any kind of commitment be it love or the stock market or whatever. Making up a story to illustrate my point:

The Man Whose Eyes Were Bigger Than His Stomach

32.1 Once upon a time a man took a bite out of a rutabaga for the very first time. "Wow," said he, "I LOVE RUTABAGAS! I will eat them at every meal from now on!"
32.2 His wife dutifully served him rutabagas every day but it wasn't long before he said to himself, "Hmm, I'm not so sure my passion for food is being totally satisfied with rutabagas after all..." He decided he wouldn't miss them if he gave them up.
32.3 But what to tell the wife? If he told her he changed his mind - especially after she'd filled the larder with rutabagas and bragged to everyone how much he loved her rutabaga pie! Her rutabaga stew! Her rutabaga ice cream! - he'd feel like a total jackass plus his wife would never let him hear the end of it.
32.4 But he was so done with rutabagas.
32.5 Still he wanted to keep his word so he continued to eat them. And to this day his wife is very happy. (However, he's not. He's miserable.)
32.6 The man continued to eat rutabagas at every meal for the rest of his life - but he never stopped wondering if something different might possibly have tasted a little bit better. So sad.;)
 
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rodaki

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thanks for sharing the lovely story Rosada :)
I think this bind between staying the same vs changing is very much at the heart of 32 - what to do, what to do . .

I tend to think there is not one right approach in this and the fact that an auspice is missing makes me believe it all the more so - this line feels like an open space where we can try out our thoughts and feelings to see how they fit - is it keep on piling those little things to grow sth as per 46, or is it move on there's nothing here for you . . I like the idea of an open heart (line 4) in the midst of staying true to one's commitment - it makes for a much more fluent (yet not much easier, I have to say) answer to it
 

charly

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Dear Dora:

32.4 is a too short line. Open ended, indeed.


田旡禽
tian2 wu2 qin2
FIELD WITHOUT ANIMALS
arable land, symbol of fertility, cleaned-up of wild animals
a peaceful kingdom
good fundation for a home

Among many other possibilities:


田旡禽
tian2 wu2 qin2
HUNTING NO GAME
If no game, hunting what?
Perhaps another sort of hunting, like pursuing humans, maybe a metaphor for courtship.
Perhaps the hunted hunter, which means fallen in love.

Combinatory limit is large because of the wide range of meanings of each character:

tian2, depicts a tilled field, meaning: 1) field / arable lands / farm / farming // 2) hunt / hunting /
wu2: not to have / no / none / not / without / un... /
qin2, depicted a net for hunting birds with a handle in bronze characters to which the seal characters added beast's buttocks with a tail, meaning: generic term for birds and animals / wild game // flying birds (opposite to runing beasts) // (applied to animals, humans or booty) to catch / capture / to hunt /

I'm wondering if isn't love that knocks your door.

All the best,


Charly
________________________
Chinese tilled fields:
longji-silver-terraces.jpg

Source: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Location..._Terraces_Hotel-Longsheng_County_Guangxi.html
This photo of Longji Silver Terraces Hotel is courtesy of TripAdvisor
Ch.
 

rodaki

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dear Charly,

it took me a long time to read your post and today I got yet another 32.4 . . I'm thinking, 'clarity of purpose' has to be really important here and I'm beginning to see 32 in general as a series of meditations on this couple of stability and changeability, gentleness and upheaval, moderation and turbulence, iow, wind and thunder . . Wind wants to till the land, Thunder wants to go hunting, Wind wants to cozy up, Thunder wants to run wild . . are we looking for game or seeds? I can't say for sure by now, the sure thing is, if things get too divided we ain't gonna get anything for dinner ;)

your images are a small oasis, thank you for sharing!
 

rodaki

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I'm coming back here to add just another short note on what this line is or, probably better what it isn't, namely that this isn't a barren land - no matter we find what we hunt down or not, this is still a place that has to give, regardless of whether we see it straight away or not, whether we're interested in taking what's there or, even better, working for it . . . still, there are things to be had
 

charly

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I'm coming back here to add just another short note on what this line is or, probably better what it isn't, namely that this isn't a barren land - no matter we find what we hunt down or not, this is still a place that has to give, regardless of whether we see it straight away or not, whether we're interested in taking what's there or, even better, working for it . . . still, there are things to be had
Dear Dora:

Quoting David Keightley on fields and hunting in Shang times:

Kind regards,

Charly
 

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steve

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Hi

Just my input here, I get this line a lot, its usually to do with sales, sales can be like hunting. In my case it can be a mixture of looking here there and every where, some times its more like prey that passes by and you strike. I think the line is to me anyway, be very open minded, keep your wits about you. There are many ways to hunt I guess.
It can be positive in sales if you try hard, and being a neutral line it can go either way, you can either eat or go home hungry, sales can be like that.

I think you see my perspective anyway, great thread.

Steve
 
E

erre_kz

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HiI want to share my recent experience with this line.I asked about an exam at University I should have done less than a week later. My question: Is it good for me doing the exam next week (in terms of result)?I received this line. I was a bit worried, I decided to try anyway, what did I have to lose?The exam went WELL. 👍
 

equinox

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HiI want to share my recent experience with this line.I asked about an exam at University I should have done less than a week later. My question: Is it good for me doing the exam next week (in terms of result)?I received this line. I was a bit worried, I decided to try anyway, what did I have to lose?The exam went WELL. ��

Thanks for sharing. I also experienced that 32.4 can not only refer to misplaced positive but also to misplaced negative expectations. Congratulations!
 

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