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Blog post: Why reading for others can be hard

hilary

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This entry is part 2 of 2 in the series Reading For Others
I wrote before about why we*want to do readings for other people – in essence, because we want to help, and*we know what Yi gives, and we want to share that.*As I prepare for the Reading for Others Class that begins this month (starting on the 19th), I’ve really been learning a lot from the in-depth responses people have sent me to the preliminary survey – about why they wanted the class, what they*hoped it would cover, and where the sticking points were for them.
Here are a few of those sticking points, and some pointers on how to get unstuck:

Recognition

When you read for yourself, you naturally*recognise how the answer is speaking to you. Recognising even a small part of the reading (‘ah yes, that line is exactly how I feel when this happens…’) gives you a doorway into the whole.
When you read for someone else, recognition doesn’t work in the same way.*It might not happen at all. You might be unsure whether you’re truly recognising the person in the answer, or just your own preconceptions and/or baggage around this kind of question. And sometimes you’re going to recognise the answer as something you need to hear*yourself, which can be thoroughly disconcerting if you weren’t*expecting it.
Two things help here: really*listening to the person talking, and taking time to ensure that the question they put to Yi is the one they’re really asking.
In your own relationship with Yi, you might have become quite relaxed about questions: you might be able to ask for a yes/no answer on the understanding that Yi will answer the question behind your question; you might not normally use a question at all; you can probably*recognise those moments when*Yi isn’t answering your question, but instead addressing a deeper underlying concern that you maybe should have asked about in the first place.
This is all beautiful, and*none of it’s likely to work with someone else’s reading. To hear Yi answering their question,*a beginner needs to hear the question they’re asking. And being able to hear the conversation is vital for you, too, as interpreter – it gives you a more solid place to stand, as you work to separate out your own preconceptions from what Yi’s saying.

Communication

An interesting thing about that survey – I asked, ‘Why are you interested in a class on reading for other people?’ and people talked about wanting to help, and wanting to share the experience of relationship with Yi.*There’s the ‘aha’ – whether all at once, or unfolding over months – the inner shift, when the pieces fall into a new kaleidoscope pattern. That unique, individual experience of meaning is what we cherish and want other people to have.
Nobody*wrote that they wanted to tell their friends, family or clients what Yi says. I think that’s because we know they need to hear Yi say it.
It’s one thing to understand someone’s reading, and another to be able to*give it to them. So there’s a whole section of the class dedicated to this – I’ve called it the ‘bucket’ (poetic, I know…), because it’s about the container for the reading.
When you look at a reading, you may see multiple layers of meaning: hexagram text, hexagram shapes, trigrams, perhaps nuclear hexagrams, perhaps some associated myth and history, perhaps some reading experiences of your own that paint the whole thing in vivid emotional colours. And here is someone asking you, ‘What does it mean?’ and you need to somehow distil all that richness down into an essence they can take and*use, so it’ll make a real difference for them.
The temptation here is to follow in the footsteps of the ‘simplified I Ching for modern times’ brigade and try to explain what it means – to say ‘making a transition’ instead of ‘crossing the great river’ or ‘being very careful’ instead of ‘treading the tail of the tiger’. Advice:*don’t. Abstractions are forgettable; tigers are not.
You will need to*invite your querent in to the imagery, encourage them to make themselves at home in a world where nothing travels faster than a horse, tigers are protector spirits that also eat people, and wading rivers is dangerous. You may need to choose one image from among the many you can see in text and trigrams. But giving a reading always means giving imagery.
One other tip: be clear in your own mind about the basic*structure of the reading: what the primary and relating hexagram represent, how the diverse moving lines work together. This is essential to the health of your ‘well rope’ – the interpretive skill with which you draw out a reading’s meaning – and so I’ve provisionally sorted it into that part of the class (though what we work on in each week’s video meeting will depend on the questions participants have*at the time). But it helps in communication, too, to be able to say things like, ‘This one is*your hexagram,’ or maybe even, ‘This line gives a voice to*your inner teenager.’

Keeping your head above water

Five years ago, I was burned out and had no idea whether I would ever do readings again. I’d been ‘open for readings’, barring a week off here or there for family responsibilities and emergencies, for over ten years, and I’d run out of everything and needed to crawl away and spend a long, long time sitting with an old oak tree and having no plans at all.
It’s true that divination is significantly different from counselling or coaching, because the real source of help is Yi, not the diviner. (That’s probably why I lasted 10 years, not 10 months.) All the same, being the conduit for its help is work.*So yes… don’t do what I did, and make yourself absolutely unconditionally available to carry absolutely anything and everything for everybody at any*time, indefinitely.
I dare say you, like most people, would have the common sense not to put yourself in that situation in the first place… But even if you’re only reading occasionally for family or friends, you still bear a weight of their expectations – maybe that you’ll come out with something succinct and wise on the spot? – and of responsibility.
I don’t have any universal answers about this – I think the best I can do is share some of the big questions and the personal answers I’ve found. Your answers may be different, but you should probably go looking for some before you do many readings.

How do you need to look after yourself?

I need time outdoors, I need time off from full readings, I need sky and trees, and occasionally*if I’m worried about the person I’m reading for*I need someone to share my worries with, in confidence.
And you…?

How do you understand*your responsibility as a diviner?

I’m responsible for giving them the reading, as completely and as well as I possibly can.
If the querent doesn’t*get it, I must keep on trying new ways of communicating until I’ve run out of ideas. If they resist what it says now, I must do my best to make it memorable so they can use it later. If they miss calls, I’ll write up my notes and email the reading. If someone requested a refund before the reading, I’d send it – and I’d also send the reading. Someone else’s reading in my hands is sacred, and I must do everything I can to give it to them. If the zombie apocalypse happens when I’m working on someone’s*reading, I suppose I’ll just have to write it out on paper and*get on my bike.
And… I’m not responsible for what happens next. Not even for how the person understands the reading – and absolutely not for what they decide to do. I trust the Oracle to do its thing, and I trust the person to walk their own way. Or at least, this is what I keep trying to do.
(And you…?)
stuck.jpg
 
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butterfly spider

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I can only relay how the casting has been for me, my experience, my story. I find it hard reading realms of translations. That said, I find the memorizing hexagrams thread very useful and together with my own journal and wikiwing, am able to hopefully impart something useful to a querant.

I rarely do readings for friends, but the first time I had a book and some Chinese coins, I did a casting for all my family one Christmas. I always remember doing a casting for one family member, who was a labourer and who got 1UC. I remember thinking that I must have got it all a bit wrong. I couldnt understand. Later that Christmas my friend came who worked for Mensa and we did some puzzles, and this family member had an IQ of 154....it was as if I Ching knew already. I think this has always given me the knowledge that there is always an answer locked in there...Also, it is all about faith. If we give our interpretation of a casting, it may be wrong, but at least it is an answer, our own telling of someone's story. Once, when I first went on this site, I asked a question and someone answered. I was so pleased that they had taken the time to offer me guidance, and thought how nice it was that they had answered. What they said was less important than the fact that they had answered.
 

Liselle

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A kitten?! From Hilary?! :D :hugs:

I always remember doing a casting for one family member, who was a labourer and who got 1UC. I remember thinking that I must have got it all a bit wrong. I couldnt understand. Later that Christmas my friend came who worked for Mensa and we did some puzzles, and this family member had an IQ of 154....it was as if I Ching knew already. I think this has always given me the knowledge that there is always an answer locked in there...

Butterfly, forgive me, but I'm confused. What is the connection between your family member, the 1uc reading, and your friend from Mensa? Maybe one thing you're saying is that your family member could qualify for Mensa but you'd never know it by what he/she does for a living...but what was the message of 1uc?
 
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butterfly spider

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I think that the creative imagery of hex 1 was at odds with what I knew then about this relative. How could this person, with seemingly no hint of creative nounce get hex 1UC. I read the Wilhelm translation out - it was the first book I had, and I remember my Aunt being in hysterics thinking that her Brother had a creative bone in his body....cant paint a thing she said, look at him, the only creative thing he has done is paint the front door - and look at that.. I remember it all very clearly. I must admit that my interpretation of his casting might have sounded a little batty to them all - it was the first time that I had ever done this.

Later that Christmas, a friend, who worked for Mensa setting puzzles, very clever, gave us all a quiz to do - and we all sat about 9 of us attempting the quizzes. It felt like a bit of fun, with an elimination process - each of the family members and friends, all falling by the wayside (I remember having about 136), but this family member just kept going. What was interesting was thhe reaction of my friend who was doing the quiz. He felt uncomfortable about being beaten by someone in a vest, unshaven, chainsmoking and who dug roads for a living....

Later, it emerged that this family member had indeed been asked to be a decoder during WW2 as he had always managed to do the Times Crossword. He had also, it came to light been offered a scholarship aged 13 to a big school, but his parents sent him to work in the docks instead. When he was much older, he used to love Classical music and read profusely. Just before he died I sat watching waves with him at his favourite seaside place and he recited Byron and Keates to me.....He told me that he had always wanted to be a poet. His question about 12 years before had been - What am I best at?

Of course, I had not known this when I gave him the Wilhelm translation of hex 1 - creative, almost an unused energy. I think of him when I get a reading of my own where I think - this is wrong, how can this be? It also shows that when we give an interpretation of a reading for someone - on here especially - we have to give it as we see it - and this can help give a different stance on a situation. The fact that my Aunt fell about laughing when I said that this man was creative, shows that somewhere in the casting is an answer - even if it not obvious to that person at the time. Now, I would have been better at giving suggestions on hex 1 - I think it had a lot to do with pent up, unused energy - rather than painting front doors, and used my own judgement more.

I am not saying that because someone is a labourer they cannot qualify for Mensa - that is ridiculous, one of the most intelligent guys I have known worked in as a park attendant. I just wanted to get across the idea that within the casting there is always the right answer, even if we cannot see it, or more importantly, the person who has cast cannot see it.
 
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butterfly spider

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I think that the creative imagery of hex 1 was at odds with what I knew then about this relative. How could this person, with seemingly no hint of creative nounce get hex 1UC. I read the Wilhelm translation out - it was the first book I had, and I remember my Aunt being in hysterics thinking that her Brother had a creative bone in his body....cant paint a thing she said, look at him, the only creative thing he has done is paint the front door - and look at that.. I remember it all very clearly. I must admit that my interpretation of his casting might have sounded a little batty to them all - it was the first time that I had ever done this.

Later that Christmas, a friend, who worked for Mensa setting puzzles, very clever, gave us all a quiz to do - and we all sat about 9 of us attempting the quizzes. It felt like a bit of fun, with an elimination process - each of the family members and friends, all falling by the wayside (I remember having about 136), but this family member just kept going. What was interesting was thhe reaction of my friend who was doing the quiz. He felt uncomfortable about being beaten by someone in a vest, unshaven, chainsmoking and who dug roads for a living....

Later, it emerged that this family member had indeed been asked to be a decoder during WW2 as he had always managed to do the Times Crossword. He had also, it came to light been offered a scholarship aged 13 to a big school, but his parents sent him to work in the docks instead. When he was much older, he used to love Classical music and read profusely. Just before he died I sat watching waves with him at his favourite seaside place and he recited Byron and Keates to me.....He told me that he had always wanted to be a poet. His question about 12 years before had been - What am I best at?

Of course, I had not known this when I gave him the Wilhelm translation of hex 1 - creative, almost an unused energy. I think of him when I get a reading of my own where I think - this is wrong, how can this be? It also shows that when we give an interpretation of a reading for someone - on here especially - we have to give it as we see it - and this can help give a different stance on a situation. The fact that my Aunt fell about laughing when I said that this man was creative, shows that somewhere in the casting is an answer - even if it not obvious to that person at the time. Now, I would have been better at giving suggestions on hex 1 - I think it had a lot to do with pent up, unused energy - rather than painting front doors, and used my own judgement more.

I am not saying that because someone is a labourer they cannot qualify for Mensa - that is ridiculous, one of the most intelligent guys I have known worked in as a park attendant. I just wanted to get across the idea that within the casting there is always the right answer, even if we cannot see it, or more importantly, the person who has cast cannot see it.
 

Liselle

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Ohhh, I see now. Thank you for the explanation, Butterfly. "Unused energy" - I think that's a superb interpretation of 1uc that really captures the "unchanging" part of it.

Your family almost seems to have a jinx on it...:hug:
 

moss elk

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Have you considered (or already written) an article on why some people (like me) find it easier to read for others, than for themselves? (If I figure it out, I'll write one.)
 

hilary

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Have you considered (or already written) an article on why some people (like me) find it easier to read for others, than for themselves? (If I figure it out, I'll write one.)
Er, no - I can't imagine that. I suppose it might be easier to be objective with someone else's reading - but a) it also might not and b) I'm not so sure that 'objective' is a great thing to aim for in your own readings. Please write the article when you figure this out - I won't get in your way.

Butterfly, thank you for sharing the story. It's a perfect illustration of another reason to read for others: you're constantly surprised by what you learn about people. Worlds and worlds under the surface.
 
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butterfly spider

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I am finding it easier to read other peoples castings and yet increasingly tricky doing my own. Does anyone else have this problem?
 

Trojina

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I think one needs to have fairly strong boundaries to do readings in person. I think my boundaries are pretty porous, hence I tend to have found, in the past, my own answers and the one I read for are the same and I do not think this is because the answer applies to both of us. I don't know why this happens. However reading on a forum has less of this problem because the barrier is already there, one is more removed answering on a forum than one to one over Skype or something.

What is completely different between reading for self and others is the relationship with the answer. One just won't have the relationship with the answer for someone else than one would have with one's own reading. For a start an answer for someone else is a snapshot, you won't know in the same depth and 3d intensity how the meaning of that answer has unfolded in the same way as you would your own. For one thing you won't be there in 3 years time when their reading is playing out in their head and in their life. Even if they tell you it won't be the same as the connection you have forged with your own reading. This is why I don't really understand how people think reading for others is easier since we can't fully know how our reading was utilised in their lives. I guess you must mean it feels easier to read for others because it jumps out at you more but although it might feel easier I don't think that would mean it's actually better than a reading one would do for oneself.
 

Liselle

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Cross-posting demon strikes again!
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I have the same problem - I think. Maybe it's easier to fool yourself that you understand a reading when you don't know as much about it? And you may not ever know whether you're right or wrong (e.g. on the forum people don't always come back to say).

With my own, I'm often anxious about something, or trying to solve a problem, so there's a lot of pressure to get "the answer," and get it soon if not right now. Anxiety clouds the mind, at least mine, and time pressure is not conducive to letting a reading percolate. But I don't know how to get around it. I (we?) can't help our anxiety or time-crirical problems. (I know people say "Well, center yourself! Meditate! Etc.!" Yes well. Better idea in theory than practice, at least for me.)

The flip side of "not knowing enough and therefore imagining you understand something you don't" is knowing too much. I think sometimes with mine I tend to drag more "stuff" into it than I should, and then get overwhelmed and confused.

Also, Yi is capable of changing the subject or answering questions obliquely, which is difficult enough when I'm interpreting my own reading, and I imagine even harder with someone else's (the recognition problem Hilary wrote about, made worse if Yi's on another subject entirely). I wonder - Hilary, do you have a feel for this? - Yi surely knows when we're interpreting for ourselves and when there will be a diviner-client relationship (if the parties know that at time of casting, Yi would too) - is Yi less likely to do this when it knows there will be a third party working on it?

Moss Elk, I would love to read your thoughts on this - please do write them up!
 

Trojina

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Simply that when I have read for others in person...when I'm with them when the consultation is done, I often find it's an answer I've had or will get pretty soon. I got suspicious when one day I read for 2 or 3 people and they got the same answer and I got that answer too about something else. Can't recall exact detail but it was like really 'something else is happening here'. I really didn't feel it was the case that answer fitted both their queries and mine too....To be honest I suspect that's Yi's way of showing me something about itself and how I work with it. I've been told that energetically I'm not very boundaried which means I will pick up or absorb all sorts of things from other people unintentionally. Where their reading starts and mine stops is completely blurred. I've also had this with a friend. She always seemed to cast a particular answer about an external topic and then I'd cast that answer about my relationship with her....! So she was asking about moving....and I was asking about me and her...and no I just don't think the answer applied to both things I think something happened beyond my understanding...and I think Yi was showing me it's not tame or predictable or a servant, there's more there than we might ever think

My current rationale on this I am not able to fully explain because it isn't explainable BUT the I Ching has an energy, an energy field. When one asks questions it sets that energy field/your energy field aquiver like lightly touching a spider's web. I think to work with people one to one as Hilary does one probably needs to have the right...oh dear what word can I use...um kind of energy field to do that ? I also think doing one to one as Hilary said can also drain your energy field so if anyone were to do intense one to one readings regularly I think they'd have to make sure they were fully replenished energetically and spiritually in order to stay clear/well/focused.

I don't have this issue when answering in writing on the forum though and I think this is partly because the questioner isn't present one to one and also because when we answer threads here it's a shared responsibility. If my response isn't enough then I know other people will come along and add something...it isn't all down to me. I don't think I especially like being the sole carrier of what Yi might be saying.

Having said that there is still something going on even in answering here because I lost count of the times I've had an answer, been puzzling over it and then someone posts it in CC or SR.

I won't be able to explain all this in a factual way Lisa because it's to do with energies and such ....But Luis, Sparhawk had a lot to say about asking and energies and if I can find it I will link
 

Liselle

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Well, that will take more than 20 seconds to sink in. Very interesting. Thank you for writing all that out, Trojina.
 
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butterfly spider

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Yes if feels easier interpreting for someone else - and yes doing readings physically in front of someone (I rarely do this apart from family) is different from on this forum. It also means that I cannot make any judgement, intended or otherwise, about the person casting. This is fundamental here, I think. Where folk have been on the forum and some form of history can be attributed, we really do not know what is going on in their lives.....we may have an idea, but we do not know. This is why being able to make a stab at the interpretation based on the querants question, is so important - it is almost like being given an examination question - you have to use your knowledge to answer the question...
 
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butterfly spider

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Sorry - my response above was in response to Trojina's reply to me on page 1 - but it doesnt matter.
Trojina - you have a point here, so many times I have been drawn to responding to a casting and then very soon after I will get the same casting. Often it is the other way round - other people get my casting..... It is not to do with the question, I have found, or at least not the question written down, it has more to do with state of being. On a particularly dull day at work, I looked at various readings - one on the well a couple of years ago. The more I thought about the hexagram, the more it kept popping up on here - until one person's problem morphed into my own. I remember it very clearly indeed. Almost as if at any one time, there are those who need the energy from that hexagram.
 

Liselle

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one day I read for 2 or 3 people and they got the same answer and I got that answer too about something else. Can't recall exact detail but it was like really 'something else is happening here'. I really didn't feel it was the case that answer fitted both their queries and mine too....To be honest I suspect that's Yi's way of showing me something about itself and how I work with it.

Trojina, when that happened, did the same casting that the 2 or 3 people got answer their questions? When people come to a diviner, whether they're paying money for it or not, I'm sure they expect their reading to be their reading, answering their question, and not a message to the diviner.

Okay, exceptions come to mind...if there's some overriding dire emergency Yi has to warn the diviner about (e.g. "your house is going to burn down")...if there's something hugely wrong with the querent ("do not spend one more minute with this person")...etc.

Yes, Yi can say more than one thing at once[sup]*[/sup] (which can be hard to pick up on), but still...



[SUP]*[/SUP]"work on more than one level" might be a better way to put it
 

Trojina

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Trojina, when that happened, did the same casting that the 2 or 3 people got answer their questions? When people come to a diviner, whether they're paying money for it or not, I'm sure they expect their reading to be their reading, answering their question, and not a message to the diviner.

Well Yi doesn't conform to what I or anyone expects does it...it gives what it gives. Anyway how do I know it wasn't the other way around, that my reading was theirs ? All I'm saying is funny stuff happens for me when I do one to one in person readings so I don't do them much. It may not happen to you or anyone else but it does to me. We don't ever control what the Oracle does. I mean if they got the answer one would think the answer must apply to them but then again ...hmm it may be due to this I have mixed feelings about reading for others in a one to one way because of these experiences but this might very well be something individual to me. I'm not hugely drawn to doing one to one readings so maybe it isn't right for me and my experiences show me that.



Okay, exceptions come to mind...if there's some overriding dire emergency Yi has to warn the diviner about (e.g. "your house is going to burn down")...if there's something hugely wrong with the querent ("do not spend one more minute with this person")...etc.

I cannot possibly account for why Yi does the things it does. You have to, as everyone does, make your own way with your relationship with it
 

Liselle

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I guess I meant, did you get any feedback from your clients about the readings?
 

Liselle

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Ha - I just remembered something that happened to me - maybe Yi was trying telling you it's best if you don't do this (one on one readings).

We were going over trigram helpers in the Foundations threads, where you toss three coins to generate a trigram. At work one afternoon nothing much was happening, so I cast three trigram helpers about three separate things, dropping pennies on the floor, which, even if anyone saw them (no one did), would just look like spilled change - and got exactly the same trigram each time. By the third time, I had gotten the message: do not do this now at work. :rofl:

However, I didn't have clients.
 

Trojina

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At the time they could relate to the reading somewhat, as i recall, it was a long time ago, but i don't know how the reading played out for them longer term. What was also weird is these people had the same name too.
Within about 24 hours or so 2 people had cast the same line and i cast it too. Spooky. ....it all felt very pointed.
 

Liselle

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What was also weird is these people had the same name too.

Oh my. There are times when things are unmistakable. Only once have I had something like that, which was unquestionably a synchronicity, where I don't feel unsure about it or as if I'm inventing things. It was spooky, too.
 

hilary

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I think one needs to have fairly strong boundaries to do readings in person. I think my boundaries are pretty porous, hence I tend to have found, in the past, my own answers and the one I read for are the same and I do not think this is because the answer applies to both of us.

I want to ask, 'Are you sure?' but I dare say you are - and, of course, I don't know what happens with you.

In general, though, I don't think it makes sense to say, in effect,

'Yes, I can cast 3 coins 6 times and the completely random hexagram that results will speak to me: that's synchronicity at work. No, I can't find myself randomly connected to someone who needs the same reading I do: that would be too much of a coincidence.'

For me, Yi's part of - a voice of - a speaking universe, so it seems very natural for it to be involved in that kind of thing.

...Almost as if at any one time, there are those who need the energy from that hexagram.
Yes, that.

I haven't often had the querent's reading turn out to be my reading, or vice versa. However, since I started reading for people in concentrated bursts - 5 or 6 at once, then a break - I have noticed there are sometimes correlations between the different people's readings. Sometimes both situation and elements of a reading in common, sometimes just readings. This time around the first and last reading I had to interpret were exactly the same. On one occasion, the synchronicities connecting people were so striking that I thought I should try to put them in touch with one another - so I got everyone's permission and did so, though I don't think it 'took'.

So yes... Yi does weird stuff. I do not understand all the weird stuff Yi does.

With my own, I'm often anxious about something, or trying to solve a problem, so there's a lot of pressure to get "the answer," and get it soon if not right now. Anxiety clouds the mind, at least mine, and time pressure is not conducive to letting a reading percolate. But I don't know how to get around it. I (we?) can't help our anxiety or time-crirical problems. (I know people say "Well, center yourself! Meditate! Etc.!" Yes well. Better idea in theory than practice, at least for me.)
How irritating of 'people' ;)

You could try doing more readings when you are not anxious and time is not critical. Broad pure-curiosity readings, even, so there is no pressure at all to get anything from the answer.

Also, Yi is capable of changing the subject or answering questions obliquely, which is difficult enough when I'm interpreting my own reading, and I imagine even harder with someone else's (the recognition problem Hilary wrote about, made worse if Yi's on another subject entirely). I wonder - Hilary, do you have a feel for this? - Yi surely knows when we're interpreting for ourselves and when there will be a diviner-client relationship (if the parties know that at time of casting, Yi would too) - is Yi less likely to do this when it knows there will be a third party working on it?
Probably... At least, I've never noticed doing a reading for someone else that doesn't answer their question. Probably the amount of time we spend on digging into the question helps, too.
...and no I just don't think the answer applied to both things I think something happened beyond my understanding...and I think Yi was showing me it's not tame or predictable or a servant, there's more there than we might ever think

Yup. That. It helps every now and then to stop and consider what we're actually expecting to have happen when we pick up coins/ beads. It becomes completely natural to us, but it is also absolutely inexplicable. I dare say it's good for us to have the weirdness varied a bit so it becomes visible to us again.

It reminds me of the idea that you can look at waking life as a dream - just as symbolic, just as open to interpretation. Of course this can also be the royal path to insanity. But really...
Dr: 'So, tell me again why you decided to send the letter?'
Yeek: 'Well, there's this book that talks to me and gives me advice...'

My current rationale on this I am not able to fully explain because it isn't explainable BUT the I Ching has an energy, an energy field. When one asks questions it sets that energy field/your energy field aquiver like lightly touching a spider's web. I think to work with people one to one as Hilary does one probably needs to have the right...oh dear what word can I use...um kind of energy field to do that ? I also think doing one to one as Hilary said can also drain your energy field so if anyone were to do intense one to one readings regularly I think they'd have to make sure they were fully replenished energetically and spiritually in order to stay clear/well/focused.
Yes. Somehow it's important to be a conduit, not a bucket, if you see what I mean.

Wouldn't surprise me if it were easier for an extrovert to be 'always on' with readings, though.

Trojina, when that happened, did the same casting that the 2 or 3 people got answer their questions? When people come to a diviner, whether they're paying money for it or not, I'm sure they expect their reading to be their reading, answering their question, and not a message to the diviner.

Well Yi doesn't conform to what I or anyone expects does it...it gives what it gives. Anyway how do I know it wasn't the other way around, that my reading was theirs ? All I'm saying is funny stuff happens for me when I do one to one in person readings so I don't do them much. It may not happen to you or anyone else but it does to me. We don't ever control what the Oracle does. I mean if they got the answer one would think the answer must apply to them but then again ...hmm it may be due to this I have mixed feelings about reading for others in a one to one way because of these experiences but this might very well be something individual to me. I'm not hugely drawn to doing one to one readings so maybe it isn't right for me and my experiences show me that.

I cannot possibly account for why Yi does the things it does. You have to, as everyone does, make your own way with your relationship with it

Yes - see above re-weird stuff I do not understand, and realising and re-realising that I don't understand any of it. I mean, the word 'synchronicity' is one of those labels we made up to disguise the fact that we have no clue what we're referring to.

Also 'yes' to Lisa, though, in a way, because I do think there is a sort of cosmic contract here, an agreement that if I ask clearly, I'll be answered. That bare minimum of expectation is essential to doing any of this at all - I think it's what Yi refers to as fu​ (as in 61).
 

Liselle

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You could try doing more readings when you are not anxious and time is not critical. Broad pure-curiosity readings, even, so there is no pressure at all to get anything from the answer.

Oh, I do...I probably should have said "when I do readings where I'm anxious or time is critical." And I'm not saying I never understand those, thank heaven, or I would have given up on this long ago.

I forgot this when I wrote that, but Yi even once gave me 20.6 as advice, which in context I took to mean, "pretend it's not yours." (I do realize that shouldn't be strictly necessary, but if it helps get one's head out of one's own...er...)
 

Trojina

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I want to ask, 'Are you sure?' but I dare say you are - and, of course, I don't know what happens with you.

I'm sure your explanation doesn't answer what was happening for me in those instances yes. Also I feel something more meaningful to me was being communicated than 'it's just synchronicity with these people'. To settle for that wouldn't have felt true to me at all.

In general, though, I don't think it makes sense to say, in effect,

'Yes, I can cast 3 coins 6 times and the completely random hexagram that results will speak to me: that's synchronicity at work. No, I can't find myself randomly connected to someone who needs the same reading I do: that would be too much of a coincidence.'

No...I'm not 'in effect' saying anything like that myself. I didn't come to my conclusions via a process of logical thought... I just knew there was more being indicated for me and it wasn't what you think it was...it wasn't just a random connection to these others it was IMO to do with the act of reading for others and my engagement with that.. It was quite an important realisation for me



Also 'yes' to Lisa, though, in a way, because I do think there is a sort of cosmic contract here, an agreement that if I ask clearly, I'll be answered. That bare minimum of expectation is essential to doing any of this at all - I think it's what Yi refers to as fu​ (as in 61).

If 'I' ask I expect some kind of answer for me...if I bring someone else in and do readings for them the energy can go elliptical, that's how it feels to me, I was describing, my own experience. I really do think people will experience reading for others very differently because it will reflect their own energetic engagement with Yi.

Trying to think of an analogy...floats...what are called 'noodles' I think in swimming pools. In an aqua class we all have to put the noodle under our feet in the water and lift leg up down etc . Everyone does this differently...some people seem to fall sideways, tip over when they can't exert enough pressure under the water to do it...and some people seem to float off and some people just stand there doing the exercise perfectly. We are all in the water but how our bodies work in the medium of water with this task varies a great deal according to strength and even comfort with the element. That's an attempted analogy for getting in the pool of energies when doing readings for others.

Noodles...I love them https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=n...ahUKEwj6usuZ2YXSAhUHLcAKHSa8CysQsAQImAE&dpr=1
 

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Hi,
I'm a little late to the conversation but I just thought I'd contribute my own frustrations with the whole reading-for-others challenge.
I think reading for others using the I Ching is a lot harder than when you're using methods like astrology or tarot cards. With the cards the person can see the pictures too and can get a sense of why you're answering their question as you do. With the I Ching the client most likely hasn't heard of the book and is only confused if you say things like "Bloody tears" and "Nose cut off, no blame." So first of all you need to be able to explain what the I Ching is in a way that creates enough faith and respect to get people to calm down and pay attention.
Another tricky thing about reading for others is that it's really a very intimate thing you're doing. People may approach you expecting a fun parlor trick and suddenly the IC's bringing up stuff they've been trying to keep hidden for years. Not a lot of laughs.
Or on the other hand they come to you with serious problems and maybe you get lucky and you're able to help. So then what happens? They come to you again with an even more serious problem and pretty soon their asking you if they can get away with cheating on their taxes or when will it be okay to unplug grandma from the respirator? Auuugh!
But we love it, right?

jm2c.
 
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butterfly spider

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Your last point is actually very important - as I have a friend who thinks I am very good at giving her advise based on a reading she did several years ago. Recently she is having romantic issues and thinks that by getting me to interpret her answers will solve all her problems. And yes, I Ching can bring up all sorts of dilemmas - and the language can be difficult to put into words at times. That said, I much prefer using the I Ching to help someone than Tarot or divination cards. I think this is because I can go away and really think about the reading - look at my journal, look at this site and interpretations. I feel more confident. With Tarot, when I read for myself, the resulting card or cards is almost glaringly obvious - like here you are, this is what you are getting - perhaps this is just me....but then Tarot feels a bit scarey personally....

xx
 

rosada

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I like the I Ching better than tarot when doing readings for myself cause It's harder to fool yourself when the words are specifically telling it like it is whereas the tarot symbols seem more subjective. Sometimes after laying out the cards I'll then consult the I Ching asking, "Okay, what does this spread of cards mean???"
 
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butterfly spider

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I agree with this, although sometimes the Tarot hits you in the face with it all - even though it is subjective. I too will do a Tarot spread and then consult the I Ching - as a back up. I remember clearly getting the Tower - about a family situation - things were not great and like I said, the Tarot was telling it to me as it was - all falling apart, crashing down. However, the I Ching read 51.3 taken just after said to me that I was worrying too much, thinking that things would fall apart - Thunder yes, but collapse no - most of it was in my mind. Looking back now I think the I Ching was spot on really. Worrying about the falling apart was useless. Yes the Tower is as it was, and perhaps I am not a skilled Tarot reader, but the I Ching was more subtle, to me anyway.
 
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butterfly spider

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I know that the surrounding cards are important in a Tarot reading - and the skill of the reader is important. My friend, a very good Tarot reader said that the Tower is a good card in that it clears away the crap, the rubbish for renewal - or it can signal impending situations that need our energies. He said that the Death card is actually a good card that signifies rebirth.....I find it all a bit too much myself. I have a particularly gruesome deck (Marseille) which doesnt help. My friend uses Angel cards, but I find these a bit floosey for me. My son has a Wildwood deck - that is nice.

I suppose it is like positive and negaitve hexagrams - which actually dont exist except in the mind of the querant and the Death card can be very positive in the light of my friend's relationship problem - she should just end it asap!
 

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