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Basics of Liu Yao/WWG

N

Nevermind

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Even though there are some old topics for different rules of Liu Yao/WWG(working with the lines directly), the basic rules are still difficult to be found. Books about that are very few, calculators are also very few and either payed or in Chinese, so seems good idea to post some of the foundation rules for working with the lines.

Will start with the Palaces. That is the first step that we base everything on after.

While there are differences in the way we read the Lines after we assign them, in different practitioners and schools, the assignments are almost always the same for the branches/family relations etc.

First thing that everything else is based on later is the element of the Hexagram.
To find its element we use the 8 Palaces.
That we can see in Wilhelm's translation(needs to be full edition however), in there in Appendixes we can see:
II. The Hexagrams Arranged by Houses
So the idea here is that each "House" will be the element all Hexagrams in it will inherit.
And if we look how it works, we can see all of them start with the same Trigram for Heaven and Earth(upper and lower) , then we have lines changing one by one, going up to 5th.

All this isn't explained in Wilhelm's texts, however we can see it here:
https://www.biroco.com/yijing/eh.pdf
On the Page 5 is the arrangement we use(there are other arrangment, this one is the one used in practice).

Now, there is more to it then it seems. If we look how the lines move, first one line is moving to Heaven and that is happening generation by generation(the type of Hexagram). As soon as it gets near the top however, it changes direction and moves down. That we call wondering spirit and suggest the situation is showing a moment of time when someone is lost/wondering. That happens because the 6th line can never be obtained by going up, there is movement of the lower ones and 6th line will always show someone/something not affected by the situation/question fully.

A lot can be said about this movement, but that isn't the important part, important part is that all 8 Hexagrams of each palace will have that element.

However there is a little more then we can get from this. That is the lines called Ti and Yong(or Object and Subject).
In the 8 houses text, there is a line they call "Generation Line" or shi yao.
That line we call Ti or Subject.
A little lower in the text at on page 10 there is info for Self and Other line, and that are just another names for Ti and Yong(Subject/Object).
We can see there that for Repeating Trigrams(so Hexagram created from 2 of the same Trigrams), they will always be on 6 line for Ti, and 3th line for Yong for example.

That means the person asking the question will always be on Ti(as long as they are part of the actual situation they ask about, otherwise the rules are different).
However what they ask about won't always be on Yong.
So lets see example with 1. The Creative, all Hexagrams here will be part of the Palace/House of Qian Metal:


ggggg
Ti
ggggg

ggggg


ggggg
Yong
ggggg

ggggg




All is in it's pure form.Ti is outside of the situation in the Future line of Heaven Trigram. Or Heaven line of Heaven trigrams depending how we decide to assign them.

1st Generation Hexagram of Qian Metal Palace:

ggggg
ggggg

ggggg
Yong

ggggg
ggggg

ggcgg
Ti




The movement has started where Ti is trying to reach Heaven. It will never complete, but that is what we look at, and that is in it's first step/generation.

ggggg
ggggg
Yong
ggggg


ggggg
ggcgg
Ti
ggcgg





Second step, one step higher, now it gets to the People Line in the lower Trigram. Ti still tries to reach heaven, just next generation of it. The line that changes is where Ti is, since that is where the movement is.

ggggg
Yong
ggggg

ggggg


ggcgg
Ti
ggcgg

ggcgg





One more step trying to reach Heaven. One more generation has passed to get to that.

ggggg

ggggg

ggcgg
Ti

ggcgg

ggcgg

ggcgg
Yong




One more generation, one more step upward. All this is in the House/Palace of Metal still.

ggggg

ggcgg
Ti
ggcgg


ggcgg

ggcgg
Yong
ggcgg






Last step of the path tryng to reach Heaven. Ti has moved to the position representing Heaven, but can never get to 6th line, because the 6th line is outside of the Hexagram by itself. So that is the last step of Ti moving up, if we look at it as people, that would be a person representing Heaven, Leader, King, whatever but something that represents the Heaven in organizing and leading the other lines. If we look at it as time, that is Present in Heaven, while 6th will be future in heaven, one more reason it's unattainable.

ggggg

ggcgg

ggggg
Ti

ggcgg

ggcgg

ggcgg
Yong




Ti is lost. The movement to Heaven didn't lead to where the idea was, there is no way forward, only way is back. But there isn't time for that yet, so Ti just moves one line bellow lost/wondering. In medical yi jing that types of Hexagrams often come up when a person will fall in coma(more details for that in The Medical I Ching: Oracle of the Healer Within: Miki Shima, that is more connected to Mei Hua in my opinion, but it uses the types of Hexagrams from WWG and it is good book).

ggggg
Yong
ggcgg

ggggg


ggggg
Ti
ggggg

ggggg





Realizing it can never get to Heaven Ti goes back, changing the whole base it was using before back to what it was before it started. Last step called Returning Spirit. In same book we can see the idea that it often happens when a person will die in medical Yi Jing.
(working with the lines that moves a lot back as a priority, because the lines relations take priority over type of Hexagram, but the idea of something Returning is there and important).

Overall this is the journey each of us take in different houses and elements step by step, and in each step there is a very good chance instead of next Hexagram at the same Palace it will change in something entirely different. And that is what we study and contemplate while working with the changes.

That are the Hexagrams of the Palaces and some of the idea behind the movement there. Every one of the Palaces will go through the same changes and Ti and Yong will be in the same position for each palace.
Now, that is enough to find out on what Line we are, and to find the element of the situation/Hexagram we ask about. Can also help to recognize some new types of Hexagrams, specifically Wondering Spirit and Returning Spirit.

Hopefully it can be helpful. If there is interest in that(and it is very complicated and detailed system, so I get if there isn't a ;pt), I can post some of the next steps, at some point later in time, like assigning branches on the lines, and using the Day/Month to figure out what is happening.

Of course, feel free to ask if you have any questions. : )
 

foon

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Hi

It's great to see your post talking more profoundly.

If you're interested in learning Wen Wan Gua, there are some excellent courses in English, which goes into the practical art of reading. I Ching is part of Feng Shui Studies, and you can get some more info, and free resources from:

http://www.astro-fengshui.com/iching/index.html

I learnt I Ching Divination with Feng Shui Research Center and recommend it. The 'Professional YiJing Divination Correspondence Course is the Wen Wan Gua course.

Best Wishes,
Foon
 
N

Nevermind

Guest
Thanks, I'm doing good so far, so not sure another course will help me a lot, at this point. : )
The basic rules are the same everywhere and after that, it's just a question of practice in my opinion.

About Feng Shui... Well, they are different parts of the Five Arts aren't they? : )
Feng Shui being part of the Art of Appearance, together with systems like Mian Xian etc. while all forms of Yi Jing with Qi Men Dun jia, Da Liu Ren etc. as part of the Art of Divination...

But if you mean that they are connected, I very much agree. There are interesting ways to use Yi Jing to find missing items, using the 24 mountains from Feng Shui, or to find problems in the house, assigning facing and sitting site of the house to the lines etc.

My problem with most WWG courses is that they are usually very expensive, and the basic info is more or less the same everywhere.
If someone can't afford courses there is a lot of info around the net as well, a few books about it in English and links in old topics and in google. : )

My idea was to try to give the basic of the system here, so people can use it, without expensive seminars, but I gave up on that, all seems just out of place here.
 

Oliver_s

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Hi there, I'm hoping to learn this practice, but find little out there

Thanks, I'm doing good so far, so not sure another course will help me a lot, at this point. : )The basic rules are the same everywhere and after that, it's just a question of practice in my opinion.About Feng Shui... Well, they are different parts of the Five Arts aren't they? : )Feng Shui being part of the Art of Appearance, together with systems like Mian Xian etc. while all forms of Yi Jing with Qi Men Dun jia, Da Liu Ren etc. as part of the Art of Divination... But if you mean that they are connected, I very much agree. There are interesting ways to use Yi Jing to find missing items, using the 24 mountains from Feng Shui, or to find problems in the house, assigning facing and sitting site of the house to the lines etc.My problem with most WWG courses is that they are usually very expensive, and the basic info is more or less the same everywhere.If someone can't afford courses there is a lot of info around the net as well, a few books about it in English and links in old topics and in google. : )My idea was to try to give the basic of the system here, so people can use it, without expensive seminars, but I gave up on that, all seems just out of place here.
Hi there. I've been looking into many different arts in Chinese metaphysics. But I could never afford the courses out there. And I'm trying to find really good books and websites that could help teach me how to do this properly. There is alot of material out there for qi men dun jia which I really love. But when it comes to WWG there is very little. I'm not in a position to pay the kind of costs masters charge for teaching. Could you please suggest books and resources that could help?It's a fascinating art and one I would love to make use of in daily life. Many thanks Oliver
 

Gmulii

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Hi there. I've been looking into many different arts in Chinese metaphysics. But I could never afford the courses out there. And I'm trying to find really good books and websites that could help teach me how to do this properly. There is alot of material out there for qi men dun jia which I really love. But when it comes to WWG there is very little. I'm not in a position to pay the kind of costs masters charge for teaching. Could you please suggest books and resources that could help?It's a fascinating art and one I would love to make use of in daily life. Many thanks Oliver

Hi.
That was one of the attempts to join them, the text with the line practices with WWG/Liu Yao. I gave up on that some time later... As very few of the western practitioners interested in working with the text, care about the Chinese Calendars.

That I was willing to try to find a way around, but sadly then it become somewhat clear that modern Five Arts practitioners in Asia doesn't use the text as well, with very few exceptions, so the 2 are just too far apart...
If a bridge is made may need to be from the western world, and we are working on making that easier for the western practitioners, but it is going slowly.

Currently I can recommend these places:

https://fivearts.info/fivearts/
http://fivearts.org

The second one also have many translations and examples from the Wild Crane, one of the more popular book about WWG in Chinese and we are commenting on them as well, also posting new cases and questions all the time.
The first one has, so much material that even if you did have $ for expensive books and courses, you would need it as some point to be able to continue on for most of the Five Arts systems(more BaZi and ZWDS, though, but some translations for WWG are really good as well)

Now, as initially notations on the Hexagrams can be a problem I can recommend there my apps. All is free to help the English speaking community trying to learn the Five Arts:

App is here:
https://fivearts.info/fivearts/index.php?topic=15200.0
Manual is here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/380367830/Gmuli-Wen-Wang-Gua-Calculator-Manual

However, as that was a few years ago and members have asked multiple times for something for mobile/online we are working on website now.

The WWG/Liu Yao part is here:
https://www.bright-hall.net/WWG/WWGCalc.html

The idea is to have other calculators, form XKDG, XKFX, QMDJ and I'm hoping Da Liu Ren and Tai Yi someday. Also some basic rules how the system works in articles etc. But lately I'm working on a few other projects and that one is not as active.

If you search around both forums there are a few other apps for other systems of the Five Arts. Also have implementations of the 3 solstice Zhi Run method for QMDJ, I love that it worked out, however that app is with limited functionality, as its content are very much 1:1 copied using books out there and it would be unfair to the authors. But in the forums there are translations of the 100 stems free, it isn't as good as the $ material, but it can do for most people.


I gave up on WWG in here, but if you have questions in the other forums we can answer, there are people with a lot more knowledge then me there, currently. I would recommend the .org one for WWG, as the other forum is not very focused on that last 3-4 years(since some good members left back then).

If you mouse over the PC app it will give info about each part of the system as well, so that can save you a lot of material needed otherwise. Some has changed through time and I haven't changed it there, for example we aren't using Ti/Yong now, while using Self/Other or Subject/Object, more info in the topics in the .org forum. : )

And if you have questions my mail is on the app and all around as well(gmuliu88@gmail.com currently).
I don't check here usually, so better on mail or on PM in the .org forum.

When it comes to reading examples and commenting on them, as a rule we prefer to do it in open topics in the forums, so new members can learn, and not on email or PM, but we make exceptions all the time as well. : )
 
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