...life can be translucent

Menu

About Moral and Immoral questions

Peter Belt

visitor
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
66
Reaction score
5
Hello there!

I was recently reading the Sorrell's I Ching book (the auto-biographical "real-life stories" behind each hexagram), and was a bit surprised to see how, for some time, they used the IC in order to make money in the stock market, trading goods.

This made me question myself about the morals behind using the IC in order to make money (I have since read another thread in here about the morals of questioning some other person's feelings, but wanted to push this a bit further, or in another direction).

I really want to point out first of all that I'm not making a judgement here, I'm not saying that it is wrong, I am just trying to understand if there is a "rule" about how our own morals affect the readings (for example, maybe it was working for them because they planned to use that money for a good cause? and if someone else was asking out of sheer greed, maybe it wouldn't have worked?). Proof that I'm not judging: I've also asked finance-related questions (even in this forum!), about my company (that sells my art), but since it is related to my passion and helps me make a living out of it that didn't feel 'wrong' to me. However trading goods in the stock market (someone invariably will lose the money that you earn) didn't seem right to me, but again, maybe it depends on how it sounds to the person asking the question?

So my point is: there are questions that we would all agree are immoral to ask to the IC, but there are others that are not so clear. What is the common ground that all questions should share, morally speaking?
I have this feeling that IC works (like everything in the universe) with whatever vibrates. Passion vibrates, love vibrates, ambition vibrates. Money is just an object, it is dead, per se, it doesn't have a vibration, so the IC will not deal well with that. Also, greed is a negative feeling, I guess that also vibrates negatively and wouln't be taken in to account correctly by the Universe, or the IC... well that is just my 5cents about that, what are your opinions?

Thank you
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,169
Hi Peter,
I put your question to the I Ching:
What is the common ground that all questions should share, morally speaking?
I received hexagram 63.1.3.6 - hexagram 20, After Completion changing to View.
This says to me we consult the I Ching for information. After we have Completed going as far as we can go on our own we look for something to give us a wider View. Kinda like we consult the I Ching the way you would consult a map or a weather report.
63.1 could be saying that we come to consult the I Ching when we've gotten as far as we can get on our own.
63.3 could be saying that even when we have the proper information we may not have the ability to use it. (how often the I Ching has advised me and I've ignored it!) Even if you had a map to the "Demon Country" or if you knew all the rules to the stock market, would you be able to pull off a success?
Perhaps line 63.6 does give a certain warning. Although not immoral, consulting the I Ching to get the "right" answer rather than having real life experiences can lead a person to go out too far beyond their own understanding and thus get in over their head. Constantly looking in the answer book spoils the game.

Anyway, my own thoughts on the subject are that since the ancients consulted the I Ching for advice as to when was the best time to kill their neighbors - to wage war - consulting it for playing the stock market probably isn't worse.
Also, I think that even though someone may ask very low vibration questions like "How can I get my best friend's partner to go to bed with me?", the very act of consulting the I Ching about any question strengthens one's connection to a higher vibration and this overtime improves one's moral character.
 
Last edited:

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,169
I wonder if After Completion - View is advice to consider what one will do with the information after receiving it. Perhaps that is when the moral dilemma kicks in.
 

Liselle

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
12,850
Reaction score
2,388
I don't have any thoughts about Rosada's very intriguing reading, but without that...I sort of wonder whether it matters what we ask? We can ask whatever we want, but then Yi can answer however it wants? It can encourage us, give us information, roll its eyes, cut us down to size, slap us in the face, explain what the consequences would be, help us understand our motivation for asking, etc. etc. etc. There's so much nuance. I'm sure we've all experienced so many different reactions from Yi. I'm not sure we're capable of understanding it all.
 

Peter Belt

visitor
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
66
Reaction score
5
Thank you Rosada and Liselle for your answers. All of what you both say does make very good sense and resonate with my feelings with the I Ching.
Rosada your answer made me chuckle, it is rare to have answers both wise and with a sense of humor! :D
I very much like this part:
"Although not immoral, consulting the I Ching to get the "right" answer rather than having real life experiences can lead a person to go out too far beyond their own understanding and thus get in over their head. Constantly looking in the answer book spoils the game." So true! (and so difficult when one is compulsively doing readings, experimenting for the sake of "studying" the I Ching)

All the best
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
I think the Yijing explicitly advocates for a situational ethic (which is not the same thing as moral relativism). You just have to weigh all the factors and do the best thing. Right and wrong can vary with the situation. The same behavior recommended in one gua can be criticized in another, and this sometimes even happens with different lines in the same gua.
 
Last edited:

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,169
This discussion leads me to consider just what is the I Ching - what is it's purpose? I got hex 15. which I interpret as meaning a role model or guide for all situations. Something that brings us into balance, into harmony with Now.
As I write this I hear the Rod Stwert lyric in my head, "You're in my heart, you're in my soul, you are my lover, you're my best friend."
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
I wonder if After Completion - View is advice to consider what one will do with the information after receiving it. Perhaps that is when the moral dilemma kicks in.
...yes, and maybe the point is that a question should include some idea of where you'll be going with the answer, what difference it will make, what you will build with it?
 

Liselle

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
12,850
Reaction score
2,388
...yes, and maybe the point is that a question should include some idea of where you'll be going with the answer, what difference it will make, what you will build with it?

At the risk of being picky (sorry) - I don't understand what that has to do with the morality of a question.

I can see how one shouldn't ask ridiculous questions about doing things they have zero intention of actually doing (63, Completion) - is that what you mean?
 

Peter Belt

visitor
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
66
Reaction score
5
At the risk of being picky (sorry) - I don't understand what that has to do with the morality of a question.

I don't want to answer in anybody else's name, but I personally understand it in line with the moral relativism Bradford was talking about.

For example, the morality of this question: "how would be the outcome of selling my stock options today in order to pay a Christmas visit to my dying grand-mother" would be different than "how would be the outcome of selling my stock options today in order to pay a hitman to kill my loud neighbor". The main action or subject of the question would be the same (what will be the result of selling today), but the final purpose, the "what you are going to go with the answer" will be different.
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
At the risk of being picky (sorry) - I don't understand what that has to do with the morality of a question.

I can see how one shouldn't ask ridiculous questions about doing things they have zero intention of actually doing (63, Completion) - is that what you mean?
Hm - good question - I suppose I mean that 'the common ground all questions should share, morally speaking' might be clarity of intent, which is really the same thing as being honest with oneself. The process of digging into 'Why do I really want to know that?' can be quite revealing/ difficult/ alarming/ embarrassing.
 

alan_sp

visitor
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
I sort of wonder whether it matters what we ask? We can ask whatever we want, but then Yi can answer however it wants? It can encourage us, give us information, roll its eyes, cut us down to size, slap us in the face, explain what the consequences would be, help us understand our motivation for asking, etc. etc. etc. There's so much nuance. I'm sure we've all experienced so many different reactions from Yi. I'm not sure we're capable of understanding it all.

I think this is the most important thing we need to understand about I Ching. And it also answers what I Ching actually is.

For me, it is intelligence, consciousness, a person (not in the same way as we are persons, but anyway). That means, it has freedom, it can choose its own reactions to our questions.

There's one funny story about one I Ching answer. One friend asked about one boy what she should do. Answer was great, something along lines that boy just waits for her to approach him. She approached, he laughed her out, she never asked I Ching anymore.

Thing is, she is person who are more then prone to ask too many questions. If she receives positive answer, she asks again to "get confirmation". If she receives negative answer, she asks again till she receives positive. She's the kind of persons no one wants to have too much business with, unless you're professionally into readings, then you dream about this persons (and them giving you all their money).

I Ching just cut off her from him. It knew how to do that and it did that.

It is ours to decide what we are, are we moral, are our actions moral or not. It is I Ching's to decide what it will do with us. I think we shouldn't decide for I Ching what its his business.
 

hilary

Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
19,149
Reaction score
3,418
I don't want to answer in anybody else's name, but I personally understand it in line with the moral relativism Bradford was talking about.

For example, the morality of this question: "how would be the outcome of selling my stock options today in order to pay a Christmas visit to my dying grand-mother" would be different than "how would be the outcome of selling my stock options today in order to pay a hitman to kill my loud neighbor". The main action or subject of the question would be the same (what will be the result of selling today), but the final purpose, the "what you are going to go with the answer" will be different.
Indeed, that too. I was thinking of a different example,
'How does he feel about me?'
...where 'where you're going with this' might be a lot less obvious to the person asking.

...She's the kind of persons no one wants to have too much business with, unless you're professionally into readings, then you dream about this persons (and them giving you all their money).
(...or you have nightmares about such people, because you know they will keep coming back but you can never actually help them, and also your complete inability to get the message across to them will drive you to distraction. So you have to refuse to read for them, and then they think you're being horrible...)
It is ours to decide what we are, are we moral, are our actions moral or not. It is I Ching's to decide what it will do with us. I think we shouldn't decide for I Ching what its his business.
:bows:
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top