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About Unexpected / Disapointing / "Wrong" readings

Peter Belt

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Hi all there!

I wish you all a rich, exciting and fulfilling 2018!

I wanted to have your inputs on this delicate topic, and I'll try to go as straight to the point as possible:
We've all experienced readings that are more or less "obscure" or difficult to relate to, that need time to digest and get into, and others look very straightforward and seem to answer the question clearly (we all like those ones don't we? :D). Well with these latter ones it seems easier to "compare notes" between what was said and what actually happened since the reading seemed pretty clear. Well, recently I had that, and the answer I got was not in line with what actually happened. Since I really do believe the I Ching was not "wrong", I would like to have your inputs on what can be the causes of this kind of situation? So far I can imagine:

- A wrong interpretation of the reading (it might have looked straigthforward, but actually it wasn't)
- A biased state of mind while throwing the coins
- A flexible interpretation of time ans space by the I Ching (the result does not look in sync with reality right now, but the situation could actually evolve into something more like the reading in the future...)
- The question was unclear, or confusing
- anything else?

Let me for the sake of illustration tell you about the reading I am talking about, and let me start by saying that this is one of the first times I feel a reading is not "in sync with reality", after several hundreds of readings:

I had this very big (and important -for me- and pricey) artwork exhibited in a quite important solo exhibition in 2017, the exhibition was ongoing until 22nd of December.
I had 18 works exhibited, but I wanted to know if this particular work (the biggest one) was going to get sold at the exhibition. So I asked this question: "If I was certain that this piece was going to get sold before December 31st 2017, how would my state of mind be on January 1st 2018"? I agree, the question is a complex way of asking "is that piece going to get sold in 2017".
And as an answer I got the hexagram I love the most: 11 unchanging. I would be at peace, satisfied. That and the fact that I got only 1 Hex uc made me think the piece was going to get sold.
Now... it didn't. I sold some other smaller ones and the show went well, I'm happy, but that particular one didn't sell.
So my question is:
- Was my question unclear
- Could it be that I was I biased when I threw the coins
- Could it mean that it is going to sell... soon
- Or also that I am at peace now (which I am), independently of the result of that particular show?

Any ideas?

Thanks a lot!!

All the best, take care.
 

Trojina

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I think it looks like a simple matter of you placing far to much emphasis in your interpretation around the word 'peace' which is sometimes used as the hexagram title. 11 isn't peace, it doesn't mean peace. Hilary calls it 'Flow', Bradford calls it 'Interplay' I can't recall what LiSe calls it but I don't think it's peace...oh checked, she calls it 'Mount Tai'.

In 12 heaven and earth trigrams are moving away from each other as earth naturally tends downward and heaven upwards. In 11 you can see that rather than heaven and earth not interacting they move towards each other. This gives rise to flow to interaction to change to energy moving and it's not peaceful as in the sense of nice and relaxed and quiet.

But you also have 11 as an unchanging cast so it may interest you to see how others have experienced 11uc before you.

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...eriences-with-Unchanging-Castings-Hexagram-11

I think a number of those are not, ahem, especially 'peaceful' (see Hilary's examples). 11 isn't well named as 'peace' really since in English peace can imply being quiet, at ease, comfortable and as you said you expected, satisfied.

You mentioned a biased frame of mind as possibly affecting the answer. it doesn't. I mean the orientation of the question can affect the answer of course but there is need at all to attempt to hold a 'neutral' state of mind whilst casting so I don't think that would ever be a reason for you not understanding an answer..

One reason for not understanding your answer you didn't mention was it simply hasn't become clear to you yet. Answers will often unfold over time, they aren't always immediately recognisable.

If you get to figure out your 11uc cast do post it to the experiences thread won't you.
 

Sixth Relative

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Your state of mind would be at peace on January 1st, 2018 provided you sold the piece before December 31th, 2017.
You didn't sell it before December 31th, 2017 , therefore your state of mind on January 1st, 2018 was not at peace.
Pretty accurate, in my opinion.
 

Peter Belt

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I think it looks like a simple matter of you placing far to much emphasis in your interpretation around the word 'peace' which is sometimes used as the hexagram title. 11 isn't peace, it doesn't mean peace. Hilary calls it 'Flow', Bradford calls it 'Interplay' I can't recall what LiSe calls it but I don't think it's peace...oh checked, she calls it 'Mount Tai'.

Thank you for your answer Trojina. I understand what you mean, and this reading will surely change how I see this 11 hex, but so far my readings with Hex 11 were pretty accurate on the "peace" side of things (also, it didn't help that the three books I have, 2 in French and 1 in English, all call this hexagram peace / harmony).

One reason for not understanding your answer you didn't mention was it simply hasn't become clear to you yet. Answers will often unfold over time, they aren't always immediately recognizable.
I mentioned the I Ching not beeing too good with our "Earthly" sense of time and space, and that indeed this could evolve differently over time, but I still put a date in my question, does it mean that trying to use dates, trying to have precise time-windows in the questions is useless?

And yes of course, I will post this in the 11uc experiences once I have a clearer picture.

Thanks again, take care.
 

Peter Belt

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Your state of mind would be at peace on January 1st, 2018 provided you sold the piece before December 31th, 2017.
You didn't sell it before December 31th, 2017 , therefore your state of mind on January 1st, 2018 was not at peace.
Pretty accurate, in my opinion.

Thank you very much for your input Sixth Relative. It might indeed go in that direction.

The question however was not "will I be at peace on January 1st" or "How will I feel on January 1st if I had sold that piece", but "If I was certain that piece was going to get sold, how will I feel on January 1st?". So to me the answer relates more to something like: "If -as you say- you are certain that piece is going to get sold, then you will feel at peace on January 1st", which is why I feel confused about this reading...

Thanks again!
 

Sixth Relative

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The question however was not "will I be at peace on January 1st" or "How will I feel on January 1st if I had sold that piece", but "If I was certain that piece was going to get sold, how will I feel on January 1st?". So to me the answer relates more to something like: "If -as you say- you are certain that piece is going to get sold, then you will feel at peace on January 1st", which is why I feel confused about this reading...

Yeah, I got it. My point exactly: You were certain about the selling; that was the circumstance for the omen. Reality didn't match the circumstance for the omen.

Something like: "I know you say that you are certain about the selling, but you can't be certain. IF you could be certain of the selling then you could be certain of being at peace BUT since you can't be certain of the selling...."

Anyway, it just an idea.
 

moss elk

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I mentioned the I Ching not being too good with our "Earthly" sense of time and space.

Sure it is,
but only if you focus your question with the time parameters or day in question.
 

Peter Belt

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Thank you Sixth Relative. Yeah I know what you mean. I guess it has indeed to do with this weird way of turning a yes/no question into something else... I'll avoid that in the future. :)
 

Peter Belt

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Sure it is,
but only if you focus your question with the time parameters or day in question.

Hi Moss Elk, thanks for your input.
So you mean that my question "If I was certain that piece was going to get sold in 2017, how will I feel on January 1st?", doesn't have a good focus on the time parameters?

Thanks again!
 

moss elk

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That question has good time parameters and focus, the problem is with the rest of the question. It is odd and convoluted.
Almost like you were trying to outwit Yi with the indirectness of it.

Next time ask what you meant: What is the likelihood that this will sell on x date?
 

Trojina

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I mentioned the I Ching not beeing too good with our "Earthly" sense of time and space, and that indeed this could evolve differently over time, but I still put a date in my question, does it mean that trying to use dates, trying to have precise time-windows in the questions is useless?

I mentally registered your question when I first read your post as 'will this sell ? and I answered you mainly in respect to you you placing heavy emphasis on the word/idea of 'peace' in your interpretation. I wasn't noticing/thinking at all about the dates in your question at all although now I re- read it I agree with Moss Elk that is seems very convoluted

So I asked this question: "If I was certain that this piece was going to get sold before December 31st 2017, how would my state of mind be on January 1st 2018"? I agree, the question is a complex way of asking "is that piece going to get sold in 2017".

:confused: I think I'd just ask if it was going to get sold and very often the answer will refer to your state of mind because of the sale anyway. Like if it's not going to sell you may get an answer saying 'don't mind loss' or if it really isn't known yet by Yi because it depends on many things then a different kind of answer and perhaps if is going to sell a celebratory answer. I can't say I know how Yi will answer any question of course but I'm saying Yi's answers often carry more information or a different kind of information than you asked for that still is a useful answer.


I can't tell you if putting time windows in a question is useless, it's up to you to decide that by seeing if it works for you or not. It's not something I have ever had the need to do, or if I have I can't remember.

Hang on I think I once asked if I the landlord would replace my windows by Xmas. I got 24.6 and thought that a very apt response that no he wouldn't. The Xmas period is associated with 24 and the turn of the year, the solstice and line 6 referred to missing return, here literally missing that return point of the year. He did the windows in April. So I only needed a little piece of that cast to get my answer quite clearly. So I think as you get more experienced in how Yi responds to or you connect to it you there is less need to try all sorts of complicated 'if I did X then Y ' type of questions.

It doesn't need to be complicated because Yi answers what is in your heart and doesn't need a whole lot of complication to do that IMO. But that is my approach and approaches vary a great deal so you have to discover what works well for you.
 

Olga Super Star

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The question however was not "will I be at peace on January 1st" or "How will I feel on January 1st if I had sold that piece", but "If I was certain that piece was going to get sold, how will I feel on January 1st?".
Hi Peter Bolt

To me it looks pretty clear!
You say: IF I was certain

Were you certain? NO.
(because How can you be certain of something you don t know?)

So Yi replied that if you could be certain that you would sell it, then you would be 11 unchanging.

But since you were never certain about selling, then 11 unchanging didn t take place.
 

Peter Belt

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Thank you very much Moss Elk. Yes, the question was too convoluted, will try otherwise next time. All the best!
 

Peter Belt

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Thank you for all the input Trojina. This has been very useful. Looks like in my first set of propositions in my first message the answers were: a) A wrong interpretation of the reading but mostly D) The question was unclear... :)

Take care,
 

Peter Belt

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Thank you all for your inputs, I will keep this posted (and the 11uc thread) with how this unfolds and if things become clearer.
All the best,
 
S

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Hex. 11 UC is not just hex. 11 UC.

1) The sequence: the situation occurs naturally after hex. 10

2) The mutual- or nuclear hexagram ie. hex. 54 (Which to me is what I Ching is reflecting on. Stephen Carcher sees in it "A hidden possibility")

3) The lower trigram, The superior Forces, arrive and The inferior Forces, the upper trigram departs which also bodes for the season Spring as well *(See: http://www.yijing.co.uk/writing/notes/calendar.pdf)

* The mutual hexagram represents the eight' Lunar month according to John Blofeld and the ninth' according to Alfred Huang respectively September/October in our calendarsystem
 
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