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Thread: This system

  1. #1
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    Default This system

    The Nanjing rules have been mentioned in some previous threads here and there. You can get an idea of the theory behind it by reading the account of one of those who worked on it: Shih-chuan Chen. It is based on some extant results of divination from a reputable source, of which Wikipedia says, "For many centuries, the Zuo zhuan was the primary text through which educated Chinese gained an understanding of their ancient history." In this text, the divination always results in a single line changing, and some other results from a related source show that even in cases of no lines or multiple lines changing, the diviner mentioned that they had received an "8" (a single line) for the reading. The rules are based on the same numeric theories behind the yarrow stalk method, which are mentioned in the Ten Wings. It shows how a single line may be derived, which can be any of 9,8,7 or 6, and which accounts for all the extant readings of the ancient diviners. If you are one of those who for some reason, and contrary to Hilary, find single line results of interest, this sounds like something worth looking into. This is a brief account, which doesn't go into the significance of the numeric theory, but in this respect is no less credible than the yarrow stalk method itself.

    I really have nothing more to add, so if you want I can post this in Exploring Divination and link to it in my signature. As for five elements, the arguments against it can be refuted by the evidence of the Ten Wings as well. In other words, if for you the Ten Wings "are not the I-Ching" then the five elements won't be either. To debate this any further is a waste of everyones' time.
    Last edited by ernobe; January 6th, 2018 at 01:16 PM.

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    Yes, please repost and link. And could you also start a separate thread there to explain how you use 5 elements in readings, and link to that?

    Edited to add: no, I don't think debating different approaches to Yijing interpretation is a waste of time. That's pretty much why I thought it might be nice for Clarity to have some forums...
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    The Ten Wings are commentary, (very often helpful) written several hundred years after the I Ching. They are not the I Ching.
    It is simple to understand.

    The five elements theory and the Nanjing Rules are also not the I Ching.

    I'm just trying to make this clear for everyone.

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    Trojina (January 6th, 2018)

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    Thanks for the new thread, Moss Elk.

    Er - strictly speaking, by definition the I Ching = the ancient Zhou text + the 10 Wings. That's what was canonised in 136BC, when it became 'Ching' and not just 'I'. (There seems to be a bit of debate as to whether the Zagua was included back then, but that's the basic idea.)

    Ernobe, what have you found in the 10 Wings that mentions the 5 elements?
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    Moss Elk (January 6th, 2018)

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    Thank you for the clarification Hilary,
    I will edit my signature as well.
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    The Image is the 3rd and 4th Wings - not Zhou. But the signature's a nice touch.
    I'm away until early September. In the meantime,
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    Ok, I'm quite ignorant.
    I edited the sig.
    Thanks.
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    There's enough I Ching to go around that we can all be ignorant about something .

    Can anyone, not just Ernobe, think of a mention of 5 Elements in the Wings?
    I'm away until early September. In the meantime,
    if the forum is buggy for you, please report the problems here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hilary View Post
    Can anyone, not just Ernobe, think of a mention of 5 Elements in the Wings?
    5 elements are in the Wings as qualities assigned separately to the trigrams. It is not there as a system.
    Last edited by ernobe; January 7th, 2018 at 09:58 PM. Reason: rm signature

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    I think it was one of the biggest mistakes in Yixue history to try to jam the Wuxing into Yijing and Bagua, and a whole lot of silly errors like this were made in the Han dynasty. They remain a puzzle and a source of confusion to this day because they just don't fit. Five belongs in a universe of five parts and Eight in one of eight. And the Zhouyi was already five or six centuries old when the Wuxing were formulated, so there is no way they could be fundamental. When the Zhouyi was written, the five had a sixth companion, and together they were known as the Liu Fu, the Six Storehouses or Treasuries, with grain or seed being the sixth. These can be seen in the Book of Documents.

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    hilary (January 7th, 2018)

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