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Thread: 59.5>4

  1. #1
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    Default 59.5>4

    It was recently called to my attention how much my reading of this line differed from most others.
    Perhaps most say that the King remains in his place and endures without blame, but I rendered it;
    "Evanescent as sweat. And that great cry for help. Scatter the royal stockpiles. Nothing is wrong."
    I should have made a footnote. There are two different ways to punctuate and therefore to read this line. The original has no punctuation. I don't think the more common punctuation captures the core meaning of the hexagram, which is both literally and figuratively about change of state (solid to liquid, liquid to gas).
    I follow the first of these two:
    九五 渙汗其大號,渙王居,无咎。Chinese Text Project, Legge, Shaughnessy, Hilary
    九五 渙汗其大號。渙。王居无咎。Harvard-Yenching, Wang Bi, Karcher

    The first reads "Disperse the royal granaries [or stockpiles or households]. No blame.
    The second reads "Dispersion. The king abides without blame.

    The idea that the King now moves on to something new instead of sticking it out is reinforced somewhat by the Zhi Gua 04.

    The two versions cannot be reconciled.
    Last edited by bradford; February 9th, 2018 at 11:30 PM.

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    Yes, imagined punctuation makes all the difference. (We could probably come up with a list of places where it does.) I've found that in practice the idea of dispersing the centre, not holding anything back, seems a better fit for readings.

    Now, since this isn't a reading, I'll just move the thread.

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    Hi, Brad:
    Quote Originally Posted by bradford View Post
    It was recently called to my attention how much my reading of this line differed from most others.
    Perhaps most say that the King remains in his place and endures without blame, but I rendered it;
    "Evanescent as sweat. And that great cry for help. Scatter the royal stockpiles. Nothing is wrong."
    I had a problem winth KINGS in the Changes, but in 59.5 I used to adhere to the first alternative:

    "Kings enter their homes and stay there tranquil. No wrong"

    Now your rendering of huan4 as EVANESCENT looks very attractive for me, I understand that conditions of WORKING HARD like POLITICAL POWER or WEALTH ACCUMULATION are evanescent, transitory, they WILL NOT LAST FOR EVER.

    Which cannot be wrong for things are so.

    Of course that entering home can be understood as MAKING LOVE and staying there as NO HURRY.
    But that's another story.

    I should have made a footnote. There are two different ways to punctuate and therefore to read this line. The original has no punctuation. I don't think the more common punctuation captures the core meaning of the hexagram, which is both literally and figuratively about change of state (solid to liquid, liquid to gas).
    Parsing didn't exist then and written text were sources of mistake if not very accurate, recursive or full of subtle inner contextuality. It were mainly written for being recited providing cues for better understanding of the intended meaning. Qualified readers adeed parsing, intonation, gesture and maybe commentaries in case of doubt.

    Are you speaking of trigrams? Passing from inner WATER to outer WIND?

    I follow the first of these two:
    九五 渙汗其大號,渙王居,无咎。Chinese Text Project, Legge, Shaughnessy, Hilary
    九五 渙汗其大號。渙。王居无咎。Harvard-Yenching, Wang Bi, Karcher

    The first reads "Disperse the royal granaries [or stockpiles or households]. No blame.
    The second reads "Dispersion. The king abides without blame.

    The idea that the King now moves on to something new instead of sticking it out is reinforced somewhat by the Zhi Gua 04.

    The two versions cannot be reconciled.
    Areyou sure that it cannot be reconciled? Public granaries are made to have SEED in abundance, kings are born to LIVE in abundance. Both abundances can be scattered not being wholly wasted. That's the ancient chinese art of bedchamber.

    Don't you agree?

    All the best,

    Charly

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    Quote Originally Posted by hilary View Post
    Yes, imagined punctuation makes all the difference. (We could probably come up with a list of places where it does.) I've found that in practice the idea of dispersing the centre, not holding anything back, seems a better fit for readings.

    Now, since this isn't a reading, I'll just move the thread.
    Hi, Hilary:

    Did you mean LIVE YOR LIFE AT YOUR WAY? Love it!

    Without changing dots there can be many differences.

    All the best,

    Charly

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    More like - now give everything you have. Put it all out there; hold nothing back; do not keep things in reserve for the crucial moment, this is the crucial moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hilary View Post
    More like - now give everything you have. Put it all out there; hold nothing back; do not keep things in reserve for the crucial moment, this is the crucial moment.
    Say, LIVE YOUR LIFE NOW, GIVE YOUR LOVE NOW.

    Love it!

    Charly

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