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Thread: About the 1st Hexagram: Ch'ien

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    Arrow About the 1st Hexagram: Ch'ien

    Hi there! So I'm new at the forum, so first of all: I'm so very glad about finding this community. It made me really happy. I'm from Argentina, and I started reading the book some months ago. I'm getting into it pretty deeply, and I decided that I'd try to do some kind of transcription/reinterpretation of the writings in the hexagrams, not to change their meaning, but more to expand the ideas with a different vocabulary and some ideas of my own. So, basically i wanted to share with you a couple of sentences i put together after analyzing the Sentence of Ch'ien, the Creative, and i was hoping you could give me some feedback on how i configured them, and if I'm too far away from the original concept.So the first Sentence, in richard willhelms version, traduced to spanish, uses 4 key words: elevated or great maybe? (elevado), accomplishment (logro). propitiate (propiciando) and perseverance (perseverancia).The first to keywords speak of the act of creation, and the 3rd and 4th speak of the conservation of the creation and of the act of creation itself, as far as i understood it. So, meditating on these words and on the sentence itself, i wrote the following:"Lo Creativo persevera en expandir las ideas y darles forma (propiciarlas) con su fuerza" "The Creative perseveres on expanding and forming the ideas (propitiate them) with his strenght"and/or "Lo Creativo expande las ideas y les da forma con su fuerza; crea lo que corresponde al TAO y en este obrar se muestra perseverante""The Creative expands and forms the ideas with his strenght; it creates what corresponds to the TAO and in this work it shows itself persevering (or, he perseveres in this work)"So, those are the two final sentences i've arrived to. If you'd like to read the whole interpretation on the abstraction of the hexagram tell me and i'll publish it here. It'd be in spanish though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonian View Post
    I decided that I'd try to do some kind of transcription/reinterpretation of the writings in the hexagrams, not to change their meaning, but more to expand the ideas with a different vocabulary and some ideas of my own.
    Hi Plutonian,
    At first I thought you meant you wanted to write commentary on Yi, or notes.

    Then it seemed like you were saying that you want to reTranslate Yi.

    But maybe you meant both?
    I just want to advise for you to make the distinction clear in your mind. Otherwise, what can result could only be called a corruption of Yi.

    Are you going to learn Chinese?

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    Plutonian (February 12th, 2018)

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    Welcome!
    I'm interested in reading your whole interpretation! Unfortunately I don't read Spanish but maybe you could translate it bit by bit and post it here on this thread, one line each day? That way it wouldn't be too heavy a burden on you and people would probably get more out of your work if you post it in small pieces anyway.

    Perseverance furthers!
    Rosada

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    Plutonian (February 12th, 2018)

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    No, of course i wouldn't dare to alter the original meaning of the chinese texts.I think i haven't been completely clear. I have the spanish traduction of richard willhelms version. This traduction from german to spanish is good, but it limits itself in vocabulary, precisely because it is a traduction from german, which has its own ways of composing the phrases and the text itself. Vogelman, who traduced it, did a great job, yet i find some of the passages very cryptic. This crypticism can be deciphered, but by doing so, I'd like to write down what i comprehend, with a more personal vocabulary, in order to have my own words explaining that which has been already written.As you can see, i dont want to alter the meaning. I just want to make a difficult translation easier to grasp, by working in my native tounge, and not just translating a different one./// So, the first sentence says "The Creative works great accomplishments, propitiating by perseverance (Lo Creativo obra elevado logro, propiciando por la perseverancia".///I've tried to rewrite this in a less cryptic way, which resulted in the following: "The Creative expands and forms the ideas with his strenght; it creates what corresponds to the TAO and in this work it shows itself persevering (straight and firm)".///I hope this clears my first post, which wasnt as clear-cut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosada View Post
    Welcome! I'm interested in reading your whole interpretation! Unfortunately I don't read Spanish but maybe you could translate it bit by bit and post it here on this thread, one line each day? That way it wouldn't be too heavy a burden on you and people would probably get more out of your work if you post it in small pieces anyway.Perseverance furthers!Rosada
    Hi Rosada! I'm so happy you are interested in my actual work. I can try to rewrite it in spanish and publish it bit by bit, of course, but i'd like to finish some more hexagrams first, just to get going and get a sense of rythim in my work. As soon as I do this, i can start translating it to english so you can give me your insight on it.

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    rosada (February 15th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonian View Post
    No, of course i wouldn't dare to alter the original meaning of the chinese texts.
    OK, good.
    As a cautionary study, you may want to look at Crowley's 'I Ching'.
    His work, trying to make it easier to understand, essentially created something different, with much nuance and depth left out.

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    Plutonian (February 12th, 2018)

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    I'll look it up! Yet i feel ther have to be analogies that actually express the original meaning with complete fidelity

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    I think You'll find a usefull tool here:

    https://ctext.org/book-of-changes/qian
    Awakening in young Yang,
    fulfilling in old Yang,
    enjoying in young Yin,
    resting in old Yin.
    The daily, annual and existencial cyclus.

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    hilary (February 21st, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonian View Post
    The Creative perseveres on expanding and forming the ideas (propitiate them) with his strenght.
    When you add the single word idea, you have substantially changed the text so much that it is no longer the same. You create a rabbit hole for someones mind to go down that can get someone who is already lost, even more lost. This kind of work should be identified as commentary.

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    Can you elaborate on that, Moss? Like, what do you see the text meaning before and after adding "idea"? I don't know what you are referring to, but your comment made me see including the description "idea" to The Creative could be limiting It to the mental realm (the idea realm) and The Creative is bigger than mind, bigger than the mental realm and thus bigger than an idea! The Creative has no limits! So yes, using the word "idea" is inappropriate. It shackles our experience of the huge unknowable vastness that is The Creative. But perhaps it protects us too.. We like to imagine this world is the result of conscious intelligence. Do we dare to realize the truth is it's all random chance?

    So now I'm wondering, is that what you meant or did your comment just send me down a rabbit hole?

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