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Hex 14 uc and Love

Surfergirl

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Thought I’d share a moment of clarity with the iching. In my search for creating deep and lasting live in my life I asked the iching, how I could go about attracting love. It’s answer 14 uc which I took to mean I already possess it. No need to search outside myself. What’s more not only do I possess it already but in sharing the radiance within I will experience love outside of myself. Just wanted to share and give back to this beautiful community. The iching and I are building a relationship and today it finally felt like we were speaking the same language. Helping me to really understand the deepest meaning of 14 uc and the power that already lies within. Xo Chelsa :)*****'Great Possession.From the source, creating success.'Great Possession means you are rich – maybe in material goods, maybe in less tangible assets, like knowledge, wisdom, power, energy, talent or relationships. Whatever form it takes, you have something real and potent in your possession.The Chinese word for 'possession' also means 'there is', so this is 'great being' as well as 'great having': what there is and what you are, as well as what you have. The ancient form of the character shows an outstretched hand, which may hold an offering: to possess is to offer; what you have is, by definition, what you can give.And what you have and can give is great. This is pure potential: an opening to the source, and a promise of abundant energy ready to enter into circulation and become creatively active.
 

suryauday

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Yes you are right. In addition to what you have said I also feel that there is another message in Hex 14 that Great possessions also comes through inculcating flexibility in one's personality.
 
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diamanda

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(...)I also feel that there is another message in Hex 14 that Great possessions also comes through inculcating flexibility in one's personality.

That is not correct.
Flexibility is not mentioned anywhere in 14.

"Inculcating flexibility in one's personality" sounds like an extremely broad new age over-generalisation, which can definitely not be applied to 14 by any stretch of the imagination.
 

Trojina

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Chelsa says

Thought I’d share a moment of clarity with the iching. In my search for creating deep and lasting live in my life I asked the iching, how I could go about attracting love. It’s answer 14 uc which I took to mean I already possess it. No need to search outside myself. What’s more not only do I possess it already but in sharing the radiance within I will experience love outside of myself. Just wanted to share and give back to this beautiful community. The iching and I are building a relationship and today it finally felt like we were speaking the same language. Helping me to really understand the deepest meaning of 14 uc and the power that already lies within. Xo Chelsa :)

From Hilary's book

*****'Great Possession.From the source, creating success.'Great Possession means you are rich – maybe in material goods, maybe in less tangible assets, like knowledge, wisdom, power, energy, talent or relationships. Whatever form it takes, you have something real and potent in your possession.The Chinese word for 'possession' also means 'there is', so this is 'great being' as well as 'great having': what there is and what you are, as well as what you have. The ancient form of the character shows an outstretched hand, which may hold an offering: to possess is to offer; what you have is, by definition, what you can give.And what you have and can give is great. This is pure potential: an opening to the source, and a promise of abundant energy ready to enter into circulation and become creatively active
.

I need to separate what Chelsa is saying herself and what she is actually just quoting or it is confusing. So I have split the post up to show the quote.

Anyway thanks for your post Chelsa. We also have a whole thread for 14uc experiences here https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...eriences-with-Unchanging-Castings-Hexagram-14 so I may go and link this thread or copy your post if you don't mind as it would be good to have it there as well.

Diamanda said to suryauday

That is not correct.
Flexibility is not mentioned anywhere in 14.

"Inculcating flexibility in one's personality" sounds like an extremely broad new age over-generalisation, which can definitely not be applied to 14 by any stretch of the imagination.

I disagree. I don't think imagination needs to be stretched so far between flexibility and generosity which is certainly a part of 14. In order to be generous one needs a kind of flexibility.

Also just because the actual word 'flexibility' is not there it doesn't mean one cannot use the word when making a comment about 14 does it ? I can't see that suryauday's comment can be exactly judged as 'incorrect' when s/he isn't aiming at an accurate translation here, just making a comment about 14.

It is accepted surely in interpretation or just chatting or sharing about Yi as we are here, one is never going to stick entirely to the actual translation, one needs to be free to use one's own words, expression and indeed understanding through personal experience and such, which is why I didn't comment when I've seen things you've written and thought 'what ???...where did she get that from'. ( 63.5 was a recent response of yours I think where I thought 'eh', I'll pop over and check to comment there if that was the line...here it is commented over there linking to this and 'stretches of imagination))
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...ingers-crossed)-63-2-5-11&p=250887#post250887
Not intending to have a pop at you Diamanda I'm just surprised at what you said because don't we all use other words than are in the translation to put over, in conversation, our sense of a hexagram ? If we couldn't we'd be tongue tied.

I can easily link flexibility in personality to being able to let go of possessiveness and be generous which I feel is quite a part of 14. Agreed 'flexibility' isn't the first quality that comes to mind for 14 but I don't think it's beyond the bounds of imagination ?
 
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diamanda

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Hi Trojina,

I disagree. I don't think imagination needs to be stretched so far between flexibility and generosity which is certainly a part of 14. In order to be generous one needs a kind of flexibility.
Also just because the actual word 'flexibility' is not there it doesn't mean one cannot use the word when making a comment about 14 does it ? I can't see that suryauday's comment can be exactly judged as 'incorrect' when s/he isn't aiming at an accurate translation here, just making a comment about

Suryauday wrote "there is another message in Hex 14".
If she had written "so my view of 14" or something like that, then it would be a personal comment.
By saying "there is this message in 14" someone might think that the words are actually in the text.
Neither 'flexibility' nor 'generosity' are in the text.

Of course one can philosophise a lot about riches (literal or metaphorical).
I was referring to the hexagram text.

'what ???...where did she get that from'. ( 63.5 was a recent response of yours I think where I thought 'eh', I'll pop over and check to comment there if that was the line...here it is commented over there linking to this and 'stretches of imagination))
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...887#post250887
Where I got that from: the text of line 63.5 does say that one person kills a cow in the east. And my personal experiences with this line (quite a few) are exactly that, that something gets killed in the process - something which was alive and useful. Please note that the cow gets killed in this line, not sacrificed.
 

Trojina

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Please note that the cow gets killed in this line, not sacrificed.



The oxen are sacrificed, that means they are killed. If an animal is offered as a sacrifice it means it is killed. A cow cannot be sacrificed without being killed. You speak as if it were just cow murder for no reason. You also seem to be imagining this is terrible for the cow...or something. The line really is not cowcentric....this line is about sacrifice and the killing of the cattle is the large sacrifice that brings less blessing than the modest sacrifice.

The whole point of the line is sacrifice, offerings. The point of the line is comparing the sacrifice of the neighbour in the east to the neighbour in the west.
 
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diamanda

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Ah we're crossing posts.
I just wrote to explain what I meant, on the other thread.

You also seem to be imagining this is terrible for the cow
Lol. No, that's not what I meant. It's terrible for the person who sacrifices their cow.
As they're then left without one.
And don't ask me how I know they don't have more cows :rofl:
 

charly

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... It's terrible for the person who sacrifices their cow. As they're then left without one. And don't ask me how I know they don't have more cows :rofl:
Hi Diamanda:

I´m wondering how was the passage from LOVE to KILLING OXEN.

Of course I also see in 63.5 the opposition between SLAUGHTERING OXEN and FLUTE (or SPRING) SACRIFICE. It's said that the second bears its own reward, supposedly Ancestor's approval or plainly JOY. Say, I believe, THE JOY OF LOVE.

Preferable to take part in the jubilee of popular spring festivals that become a butcher for the joy of spilling blood. A Question of Taste, nobody's perfect.

In the Changes is maybe so regretable to slaughter one's bull than to miss one's turtle, maybe both share the same phallic connotation, but that's another story.

Back to the passage from H.14 to H.63, I do see some logic: love means not missing one's friends. The moral: DON'T KILL YOUR BULL, or DON'T KILL YOUR COW, as you prefer.

Oxen had much to do with love and lovers meeting, remember the folkstory of the Fairy and the Cowboy, from not later than the Zhou Dynasty.

03167_3.jpg

Ovid's Metamorphoses.
Source: https://www.davidbrassrarebooks.com...ver-limited-editions-club/ovids-metamorphoses

殺牛 sha1 niu2 means SLAUGHTERING OXEN, sha1 doesn't mean to kill for sacrifice.
禴祭 yue4 ji4, means YUE SACRIFICE, the ritual spring celebration when offerings were made to the ancestors receiving blessings in change.

I believe that to take part in spring festivals bears its own rewards, among them sometimes, the blessing of offsprings, the joy for ancestors.

All the best,


Charly
____________________________
yue4, alternative name of a seasonal sacrifice, is a compoun of SACRED RADICAL + FLUTE, I believe an HULUSI, three pipe flute with a mouth piece made with a GOURD.

ji4, offering sacrifice, is a compound of PIECE OF MEAT held by a HAND, both atop of the SACRED RADICAL. The seasonal festivals, of course, provided opportunities for many games and entertainments, CARNAL among them. Maybe with no other bed than the ritual itself.

Ch.
 
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charly

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Hey Charly,
Forgive me is this is way off base,
but I picture you owning a chinese curio shop on the beach (with glossy magazines.) How far off am I? ;)
Hi, Moss:

Scuse me if I don't understand you. English is not my native language, sometimes it is like chinese for me. I don't own even the house where I live. But I don't complain: all we have is borrowed. Nothing did we bring, nothing we will carry. I have no shop, less on the beach. I don't sell translations or glosses, they do not belong to me, they are taken in loan from here and there. Even my intention of begining with literal translations is borrowed. Nobody's perfect!

About the curiosities, they are all in the received text of the Changes, taken from Steve Marshall page.
The interest on such curiosities like folk etymologies, riddles and jokes is an ancient wide scattered chinese custom. And about love and sex, I have not invented it. All what I can give, like love, was first received.

If you don't trust me, try to make an alternative literal translation, you will find much more than one, often even contradictory. The Changes is wide enough to contain all. I use to say that the text of the Changes is holographic, allowing multiple readings. Of course, the concept is also borrowed.

I encourage you to do it although it's the sort of work that never ends. One whole life is f_cking short, but it doesn't matter. Neither if you don't know chinese. Don't fear, take Brad's Matrix and try. If you need help, ask for it, you will get.

All the best,

Charly
 

charly

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For understanding the Changes I have a rule: wherever a being (people, animal, plant, stone or element) is mentioned, I wonder who it is. Of course all the said beings are ... OURSELVES.

Maybe you believe that cows or bulls like to be slaughtered for being eaten as barbecue in aristocratic banquets leaving the gods and ancestors to enjoy the smell of the burned meat. But, please, don't kill the cow or bull, yourself will result hurt.

"Don't ask for whom the bell tolls... "

The behavior of the eastern neighbor maybe didn't please to the gods and ancestors, maybe for them it was plain oxen slaughtering. But only were said the two last words: OXEN SLAUGHTERING.

The behavior of the western neighbor bears ist own blessings, supposedly gods and ancestors were pleased, but it was not said. Maybe the behavior of the western neighbor had no interest beyond enjoying behaving so. No matters who should receive more or better rewards.

The JOY of being in th RIGHT WAY.

Ch.
 

charly

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Hi Moss:

I suppose that attempts at humor cannot fail. If I understand well, you've pointed to some «curiosities» in my posts. I interpret that some of the things I wrote appealed your attention, be that you like it or not.

May I ask you which were some of these curiosities, if you liked it or not an if you have another points of view on that matters?

About translations, aren't you tempted to accept the challenge of working with the received chinese text of some hexagrams or lines that be of particular interest for you? Let us know.

Best regards,

Charly
 

moss elk

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Hi Moss:
If I understand well, you've pointed to some «curiosities» in my posts.
A 'curio' is one word for knick-knack/collectable item/baratija..etc.
Maybe like this one:
venus-of-willendorf-28000-25000bc-trivium-art-history-min_upload_tmp.jpg


I suppose that attempts at humor cannot fail.
You just proved they can fail.
As for explaining the joke, Curly's Comedic Compendium vol XIV strictly forbids explanation.
 
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charly

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A 'curio' is one word for knick-knack/collectable item/baratija..etc.
Maybe like this one: ...

Oh! Moss:

I believed that «curio» was a short form for «curiosity», I apologize.
But don't tell me that you believe that the Venus of Willendorf is but a worthless «baratija»!
Maybe prejudice against nudity? Note that this Venus is not totally naked, she at least has a woven cap.

Of course, we know little about the meaning that the figurine had for the people that made it, we only know the meanings that we project on it. As if we were reading a text written long before the invention of writing, and we have no dictionary.

But some know even less than we:

Facebook 'sorry' after banning picture of nude figurine

A museum has hit out after Facebook banned a picture of a prehistoric figurine.

Christian Koeberl, director of the Natural History Museum in Vienna, said there was no reason to cover the famous Venus of Willendorf.

A picture of the naked female figure — which is thought to date from 28,000 BC and is among the Austrian museum’s collection — was posted to the social media site by Italian Laura Ghianda.

Facebook initially said it was a “dangerous pornographic image”.

But the social media giant issued an apology and had now approved the picture.

Koeberl, commenting before Facebook’s apology, said: “There is no reason for Austria’s Natural History Museum covering the Venus of Willendorf and hide her nudity, whether it’s in a museum or a social network.”

Source: http://www.euronews.com/2018/03/01/facebook-sorry-after-banning-picture-of-nude-figurine

Nobody's perfect! If chinese people were forbidden to use naked female characters they should write in pinyin.


bioimageCurly2.jpg

Source: https://www.threestooges.com

(to be continued)

Yours,

Charly
 
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moss elk

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I believed that «curio» was a short form for «curiosity», I apologize.
No need to apologize Charly. :bows:

But don't tell me that you believe that the Venus of Willendorf is but a worthless «baratija»!
Ah,
I didn't mean to imply worthless.
I do not speak Spanish so, I may have poorly chosen 'baratija'.
Some curios are small mass produced sculptures. I just randomly picked a small item image.

no animals were harmed in the making of this post, and absolutely no joking around was involved in the image selection process
 

charly

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No need to apologize Charly. :bows:
Ah,
I didn't mean to imply worthless.
I do not speak Spanish so, I may have poorly chosen 'baratija'.
Some curios are small mass produced sculptures. I just randomly picked a small item image.

no animals were harmed in the making of this post, and absolutely no joking around was involved in the image selection process
Hi, Moss:

Every text has a hidden message and every word, every image has a hidden meaning.
Glad that no animal was harmed. I don't trust too much in random selections, but I accept yor word.

You randomly picked a small image but you get the image of a true fertility symbol some 30.000 years old. Maybe strange except for specialists, small, but not a bagatelle.

The same symbol but not authentic, all sorts serial reproductions not always of good quality can be found in the market with prices from 0.20 € to 200 €. I saw it in «AliExpress» or in «Alibaba». A fertility figure ca. 3rd. millenium BC costs 20.000 u$s in «Sands of Time», imagine how can be valued the Venus of Willendorf!

An early Anatolian Stone Fertility Figure,
ca. 3rd millennium BC
$20,000 U$D

The stylized figure of a woman shown in the round, with bulbous head tilted backward, small breasts and protruding belly button, she is kneeling in the act of birthing, the head of the child between her legs.

Dimensions: height: 8 1/4 inches (21 cm)
https://www.sandsoftimedc.com/products/ms1702

Goddesses_ancient3_14_300x.gif

© 2018 Sands of Time Ancient Art. POS and Ecommerce by Shopify

Goddesses in Europe, in Turkey, why not in China?

All the best,

Charly
 
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Surfergirl

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Hi Trojina-Thanks 🙏🏻 for sharing. I wouldn’t mind this being shared there. :)
 

charly

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... I wouldn’t mind this being shared there. :)
Hi, Chelsa:

Do you get upset for the things I've posted in your thread? It was not my intention to hurt your feelings. I was not conscious of that possibility, the posts foollowed a sort of free association. I apologize, the thread is, of course, yours. Maybe you can post something about how you see the things some month later?

Yours,

Charly
 

Surfergirl

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Hi :) Not upset at all (never even crossed my mind)... I’m very slow to get ruffled feathers over stuff. I’m a pretty go with the flow type of gal and am happy to have everyone be themselves as they are. :)As far as how I see 14uc after months— still the same. I think those moments when the Yi exchanges with us in perfect acuity it shifts something within. I’ve spent these last few months increasing my meditation and working on building my inner reserves of love. The message for me that the love I receive outside myself is a reflection of what’s within (my interpretation of Hex 14uc) still stands and has become my new mandate. :) chelsa
 

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