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Non-duality and 'Person'-Centred Psychotherapy.

Lionchild

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I am moving towards my second year of study for a Diploma in Psychotherapy. I am at the point where I need to identify a couple of people so that I can complete two cases studies. This involves 46 sessions and writing reports. Then for September I need to find a placement which, like finding the case studies, is proving challenging.I feel at home spiritually with the non-dualists and this challenges the self concepts that are worked with in traditional forms of psychotherapy. I feel I have some aptitude for counselling having struggled so much myself to find a workable way to live. But it seems there are several obstacles to my feeling I want to see this course through to the end and qualify. One is what I experience as a conflict in approach because of different understandings of basically what human beings really are; the second is that I feel it does not help my own direction of growth as I find I have to revert back or work with the conceptual self; the third is in some ways, the (mainly) person-centred approach to 'helping' others sometimes feels like it is a largely unconscious way of avoiding asserting my own life/energy. The third is that for some reason, this latter conflict/problem also seems to undermine my confidence in myself. This is a long introduction. Sorry. But it is hard to see which way to go with this. I asked the I-Ching 'What's going on here which seems to engender lack of confidence & obstruction'?I-Ching's response was 56.4.6.15.This seems to be saying that I am not at ease (true), but that I must not act too hastily in giving up my course.I would be grateful for others' interpretations, especially anyone who understands the dilemma of non-dual 'self' understanding as it conflicts with the 'person' centred approach in counselling...?Btw, I don't have to earn a living as I am now retired, and this is a second career in my life in fact. But I always felt I had something of an aptitude for this work and never explored it before. And I am getting on a bit.
 

moss elk

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hi,

Just to add my impression.

It seems to me that a psychologist (I'm just an enthusiast) would naturally gravitate towards a specialty.
By specialty, I mean a generality.
Who and how do you want to serve?

Do you want to be a counselor that helps people with the more everyday stuff? (anxiety, depression, grief..etc)

or one that deals with the sort of people described in line 6?
(a strange destructive pyromaniac)

I think line 4 describes you at this moment. (I've got shelter and a job. but my heart is not happy.)

What do you think?
 
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Lionchild

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Hi Moss Elk,The answer is everyday stuff but how I want to be in a space out of which I can express the non-dual dimension in offerings that will provide a space for healing... So what I want to offer is very much of a spiritual dimension which is also non-sectarian. I spend a lot of time listening to teachers of non duality, like Mooji, Rupert Spira, etc etc which uplift me tremendously out of anxiety and depression, and this seems to me to be the answer. I am very disillusioned with all the conventional approaches to mental health. And yes, line 4, I am not happy, and one issue is I think I am being diverted by my studies to think very conceptually which is exactly what I want to get away from...? It is a lot of work, and I just feel its really more about conditioning that coming into Reality. I am actually towards end of second year, with one more year to go. i am seriously questioning whether i want to continue all this --relatively academic- work, which seems to be in denial of a deeper calling. I am frustrated, and feel under pressure.
 

moss elk

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Is this so 'outer-spacey' that no one can relate to it?!

Whether or not it is Outer-Spacey has not been determined but, I'd say what you are experiencing is more a matter of being out-of-touch with the fact that you are asking strangers to reconcile two schools of approach, the one you are enrolled in and the one you study in your personal time. It's like being a member of two religions. (who is even saying that they CAN be reconciled? You are versed in both and have a knot in your head.) While there are probably a handful of trained psychologists here, the lay majority would have to read a few books to understand what you are talking about.

Here is a thought about the reading:
If you were versed in one school of thought first (the nondualism)
you would naturally feel 'at home' there.
Exploring a very different school of thought could make one feel like a Wanderer. You expressed a feeling of frustration with the 'Ways' of the psychotherapy training. The Image says a Wanderer should get along with the natives, conform to their ways instead of trying to argue and change them. I think your interpretation of the lines was correct: with you wanting to burn the (psychology course/school) house down.

As a Wanderer here, what are you doing too much or too little (15) of? And here is something to chew on: Even the school of nondualism is really a foreign town, you existed before you had knowledge of it. So, remember back to before you learned. There you can find your Authentic (15) self.
 
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diamanda

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And a slightly different take:

But it is hard to see which way to go with this.
I asked the I-Ching
'What's going on here which seems to engender lack of confidence & obstruction'?
56.4.6 > 15


Please note that you're not asking "what's the best to do with this course", or "what's my best action regarding this". You are asking what is undermining your confidence.

56.4 - you already have a comfy certain point of view (a place/position) but it doesn't fulfil you.
56.6 - you're scared that if you lose it you'll be even sadder.
15 - your authentic self; honesty with yourself; a reality check.

I believe that this uncomfortable conflict is trying to tell you something. I believe it's leading you to a more real point of view, and that completing the course is not the real issue here.
 

Lionchild

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Thanks for the responses, Elk and Diamanda.I went down to Oxford yesterday to listen to Rupert Spira speak, and asked him the same question. Of course in a public arena, one can't make know the entire context of such a question as this. And his response was in a way not far from what I myself would think - that to work in a conventional way is fine for those who need to be heard on that level, but to nudge towards a greater reality if and when this is appropriate. Another issue however is that when I do skills practice, engaging empathy, this triggers my own 'victim' of historic abuse and neglect, and so triggers 'shame' for which I do not feel I have sufficient support and help to work through despite having a therapist. The intensity of these feelings is quite considerable. So my thinking is to defer the course for a year (which is possible) and try to get this addressed. I need more information.
 

Lionchild

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So perhaps this question might be more pertinent or at least needs to go into the mix.What impact on my mental health would deferring this course now have?Hexagram 20 > 1.6. > 3This seems to be saying that I have not thought carefully about the subject and am jumping to conclusions?Well, that doesn't seem to be the case, because I am ruminating all the time about whether I should defer the course, or even pack it in. My feelings are if I defer, I might be at a loss and feel that I am not sufficiently involved in the community around me, or that I am neglecting to fulfil potential, and wasting my life..................Also, would I want, say, in a year's time want to come back to all the study and training work that would be involved? But if I seek to push on, at times, the sense of pressure sometimes feels overwhelming - probably mainly because I have a sense I want to be 'free' of all this hard work, and at 65, is this really a sensible involvement and commitment? Yet in many ways, I still feel I have lots of potential unfulfilled, and appear to have an aptitude for counselling..................Difficult decision, but there feels to be a need at this point, to make a decision. Case studies need to be completed and a placement for the training etc needs to be sorted out. To continue or not to continue....?
 
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diamanda

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What impact on my mental health would deferring this course now have?
20.1.6 > 3
My feelings are if I defer, I might be at a loss

I agree with you. It sounds like you'll stop having someone/something to look up to, and this will plunge you into confusion and chaos.

In your other thread you asked:
Why are things not progressing with the practicalities of this course?
10.2.6 > 17

A solitary man finishes all the steps he needs to do, and then keeps going. Not exactly sure about 17 here, but in your post above you say "feel that I am not sufficiently involved in the community around me". So it sounds like what you really feel like doing is just not do much, and yet a part of you wants to force you to become involved.

How about you find a different way to be involved with the community, which doesn't involved so much hard work? How about volunteering for example? (e.g. to help the homeless, or to help the sick in a hospital, etc.)
 

Lionchild

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Well, with all the comments which I much appreciate, I am still feeling uncertain. The study days are hard and long and I itch for 5 pm each time and to be liberated. It feels too constraining, just seeing through each session! I'm just a kid after all.Also, I have complete 2 case studies for the middle of June of 4-6 sessions and I have only found one victim! I am not in much of a social context, and my 2nd case study has fallen through....Time is running out!And so far, no placement for September.All the rest of the work has passed, but its the practical stuff that logistically difficult in my life situation, and also I lack confidence in playing the adult...That's the honest bit. I am still pondering. My next session is at the weekend when I must give in my portfolio. A crucial point really.
 

Lionchild

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Ok, as suggested, I am going with the idea of asking this question about my psychotherapy diploma course:Whats my best action regarding this course? 21 (Biting Through) 3.4.5.6. 63 (Already Across)Ok, as suggested, I am going with the idea of asking this question about my psychotherapy diploma course:Whats my best action regarding this course? 21 (Biting Through) 3.4.5.6. 63 (Already Across)Sounds to me like its saying I should persevere with the course, but ------hang on what's that in line 6 about my poor ears?
 

Lionchild

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Another issue here, is the cost of supervision, whilst in a placement, which frequently counsellors-in-training have to pay themselves. From what I gather, this can involve costs from anything from £25-70 an hour!I asked I-Ching what it thought of excessive costs of supervision (well I think it's excessive!), and the answer was36 (Brightness wounded) 4. 55 (abundance) which obviously relates to my own feelings about it. Looks to me like I really am not happy paying out for that!?Any comments on this reading & connection with associated readings on this subject? All appreciated in my mix?
 

o kye o

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Lionchild, I train Focusing teachers - Focusing is a person centered approach which orients to the felt sense. You may be familiar with it already from your studies. It's from this perspective that I'm responding.

What I find striking about your reading in this context, is that both hexagrams are about, among other things, not exaggerating the importance of your own role. Nonduality is actually a good spiritual home for a person centered practitioner, because in this kind of practice it's not your own ideas that matter, but your capacity to get 'yourself' out of the way and be in presence, listening deeply. Truly, it 'doesn't all depend on you' as 15, in Hilary's translation, invites one to consider. You are in second place - the client's process leads - which 54 points to. Could Yi be inviting you, with this reading, to surrender the sense of self which knows what the client 'ought' to do with their life? To just simply be there?

I hope this is helpful. Good luck!
 

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