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Which option is better?? 31.3.4.5 to 2 or 41.3.5 to 9?

veronica

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Hello, I have a bit of a dilemma.... my son has been struggling for a while with friendships at his current school, not getting the best grades and I think feeling quite lonely at times. He got in trouble recently and received two detentions, which resulted in even more isolation . He has been placed in a different class next year, which I fear will make things worse. I asked the Yi:
What if I keep my son at J? 31.3.4.5 to 2
What if I move him to K? 41.3.5 to 9

I’m actually non the wiser! What do you guys think??
 

rosada

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His ability to Influence at J will be Quiet.
His experience at K will give him a chance to Start Small and Develop confidence.
 

Trojina

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Hello, I have a bit of a dilemma.... my son has been struggling for a while with friendships at his current school, not getting the best grades and I think feeling quite lonely at times. He got in trouble recently and received two detentions, which resulted in even more isolation . He has been placed in a different class next year, which I fear will make things worse. I asked the Yi:
What if I keep my son at J? 31.3.4.5 to 2
What if I move him to K? 41.3.5 to 9

I’m actually non the wiser! What do you guys think??


I think most of the time Yi speaks conversationally in multi choice questions. This means it's talking to the whole of you beyond the way you framed the question


So the thought behind the first question, that you need to do something is down to you being overly influenced by how things look to you (31). Do you really need to react to what you think you perceive here ? Looking at line 3 I don't think so.


So this answer questions your perception that something needs to be done, that he needs moving at all.


41 shows big sacrifices aren't necessary at all and line 3 suggests if he feels lonely he will find a friend.



It could equally well be read as a direct comment on each school of course but I wonder with the 31 and then the 41 if this is less about him and more about your reactions to his ups and downs and what your reactions to him make you think of doing.


Detentions don't increase isolation, they are just ordinary parts of most kid's lives aren't they ? Should your first impulse be to move him because he feels alone and he got a detention ? Just because he feels lonely now doesn't mean he will in 6 months, things change so fast and youngsters do go through such times where they don't feel they fit and so on but is the correct response to this just to move them to another school ?


I honestly don't know of course I'm just seeing the 31, the lines, your tone of anxiety and also it seems you almost react with fear to the changes he goes through...which is why I feel 31 questions where your impulse to move him comes from. It might be better for him to stay and find his way there otherwise he could get the idea that if things don't feel good one place he can just move to the next.


Also it is pretty usual for kids to go through phases of just not feeling they fit in, it can be a useful part of their learning.


I guess he's the one to ask about what he wants but even then is it good for children to change schools just because they want to ? Sometimes I guess in extreme situations but I don't know if moving him to another school really gives him the right message about dealing with ups and downs and so on ?



Anyway you know best, what did you think of the readings ? What do you think of the idea that 31 is more to do with your reactions to him and his behaviour than it is to do with how he will be if he stays at the same school ?

The first answer gave me the impression you would do well to try to communicate confidence in your choices to him. If he feels you are plagued by uncertainty over his future schooling he will feel less secure perhaps. That would be less of 31.3 and 31.4 and more of 31.5 where perhaps you develop a slightly more 'unmoved' stance to his school scenarios.
 

rosada

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Interesting that Trogina got an impression from 31>2 that there was a need here for you to communicate with your son. I had a similar sense but wasn't sure what to pin it on. After looking at the lines more closely I think 31.3 and 31.4 are about his needing to master his own impulses and 31.5 gives encouragement that he will be successful. I think this could mean you talking over the situation and his possible options with him. If he CHOOSES to stay at school J I think that would strengthen his ability to create a good experience for himself there, in which case I would see 2. The Receptive as meaning this awkward phase is mastered and quietly sinks into the background. On the other hand, I think the reading for school K is so much nicer that if he chooses to transfer it seems to me almost as if it's meant to be (41.5!) and that the difficulties at school J were the Universes way of getting him to make this necessary move. I see 41.Decrease and 41.3 as simply saying the move would Decrease his contact with the unsuitable friends and make him available for other better connections. Hexagram 9 is a man walking forward in life on his own but it is not a lonely hexagram, it is more a feeling of someone STRONG in their singularity, rather than a feeling of being isolated and alone.

Although Detention is a common way of dealing with disruptive students, it can be the start of a slippery slope, especially if the student feels the detention is unwarranted. Did your son recognize his fault in the situation or did he feel the teacher was unfair? Once a kid is considered "bad" it can snowball until they become the class scapegoat.

Anyway, bottom line, I think school K could be a fresh start but the crucial thing is your son making the choice.
 

Trojina

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Interesting that Trogina got an impression from 31>2 that there was a need here for you to communicate with your son


No, that wasn't my primary impression. All I said about that was

I guess he's the one to ask about what he wants


..and that wasn't connected to the reading just a side thought.

My main point...what I wrote about, was how Veronica herself was being influenced by what she perceives of his situation.

It could equally well be read as a direct comment on each school of course but I wonder with the 31 and then the 41 if this is less about him and more about your reactions to his ups and downs and what your reactions to him make you think of doing.


Not sure where you got the idea the main way I saw the reading was to do with communicating with the son :confused:
 

rosada

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You say you are not sure where I got the idea the main way you saw the reading was to do with communicating with the son.
I'm not sure where you got the idea I saw it that way!

I didn't say the need to communicate was your primary impression, I said it was AN impression. And I got that idea because you wrote, "The first answer gave me the impression you would do well to try to communicate confidences in your choices to him [your son]."

Sorry for the confusion.
 

Trojina

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Ah I see. When I wrote

The first answer gave me the impression you would do well to try to communicate confidence in your choices to him. If he feels you are plagued by uncertainty over his future schooling he will feel less secure perhaps. That would be less of 31.3 and 31.4 and more of 31.5 where perhaps you develop a slightly more 'unmoved' stance to his school scenarios.


I didn't mean go and talk to him about it necessarily but to communicate confidence through her behaviour and actions. If she seems unsure, vacillating, fearful, he may feel less secure. To me in this and other threads Veronica sounds fearful all the time for her son. I wonder if he picks up on this fear.

Also I'm remembering from other threads this is the boy who is in the middle of battle between parents where Veronica doesn't want him to be with his dad ( I think,,,) so there is so much going on for this child already I wonder if there being all this anxiety around him is being communicated back to him. By 'communicated' I don't just mean talking, plenty can be communicated to a child without a word ever being spoken. 31.4 suggests to me Veronica herself is communicating uncertainty to him where she may need to be more like 31.5.


I don't think the son making the choice is crucial...well it depends how old he is of course, but no it's the parent's responsibility. Can't move a child to another school each time he gets a detention or doesn't bond after all what's to say he won't get a detention at the next school or won't make friends there. Then what ? Going to move him again ?

In the UK a detention is a very minor thing really, I can't see that it is a slippery slope by itself.

Yes it is the same boy as here aged 9

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?22776-Unchanging-55-as-an-advice


Reading that I'm not at all sure him moving schools is any solution to the fact that the poor child is so sad. Well it might be for all I know but he has so much to cope with domestically it's there the changes need to be made perhaps.

Also he is 9 years old and exams don't matter at all at that age. Are the school aware in any way of the turmoil at home ?
 

Trojina

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Hah and from that thread I just linked to https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?22776-Unchanging-55-as-an-advice I see Mulberry reached the same conclusion as I did even with different casts. She said

You're right, he's probably not strong enough; he's a child. I think you should assume a kingly parental role and show him you are decisive about what the resolution here should be. He may be reacting to what he perceives as your own uncertainties and lack of confidence that cutting ties is the right thing to do. But it sounds like it is.


All aggro between parents has to stop somehow, or rather he absolutely shouldn't be involved in any of it or even see it. It's not his problem what his parents do, especially now when there's the added stress of bringing another child into the world and further adjustments to be made on his part.

Correction I think from the other thread the new baby is here already.
 
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veronica

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Thank you so much Rosada and Trojina for all your help. I am amazed at how intuitive your guidance is. My son is now 11 and still in a middle of turmoil, which is ruining his childhood, which I cannot so much about, unless I grant the father more access, which I think would be even more harmful. He is getting stronger and starts to the situation for what it is but as a result of years of instability, he is struggling socially. The recent detention was a result of his inappropriate behaviour (desperately trying to impress friends from school on an overnight trip) which resulted in him being accused of some heavily inappropriate actions. This in my opinion was misinterpreted but because the school is aware of his home situation, and because there have been other minor incidences recently, he has been dealt a heavy deck of cards as a punishment, despite me recommending otherwise. In my opinion there is a risk of the view of my son carrying over (he has been placed in a class next year with non of his friends) and affecting his self belief more and more. You might well be right though Trojina, that this might just be my anxiety influenced view and that he needs to conquer his behaviour, and all would be well. The school he is currently at is quite strict and academically demanding. He is in a peculiar year, which is quite clicky, and full of over ambitious parents. The new headmistress is trying to make her presence felt (she recommended the detention, with a prior two hour interrogation in front of two teachers and both parents) so I am unsure whether it is better to plan a waiting game as my son needs to improve his social interactions or whether it might be better to move him to a school, which is more relaxed and accepting. I didn’t put my interpretation of the reading across first as I was hoping for some unbiased views and you have both been wonderful and extremely helpful. Trojina, it’s amzing that you remembered my little boy from previous readings!

It looks like neither option is disastrous, which is somewhat reassuring, but I’m still unsure what is best for my son :) Perhaps I should wait and see what happens, and pray that the horrendous litigation with his dad is finally going to end!’
 

rosada

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"He needs to conquer his behavior." Is there a plan for how this is to happen? Just as a person doesn't magically learn algebra by being isolated in a room by themselves they don't develop social skills on their own either. Social integration doesn't just happen. There's a whole industry built up around "life coaches" and people spend millions studying the science of how to win friends and influence people. To toss him into a hostile environment with no friends and expect a young boy who has had so little positive social role modeling from his dad to figure it all out on his own is blind ignorance. What plan does the school have in place to turn this boy's life around? At the end of the two hour interrogation and subsequent detentions was the boy welcomed back into the classroom with affection? Did the head mistress shake his hand and tell him she now believed he was capable of great things at the school? Were the problems with the other boy dispersed and love and harmony restored? No? I didn't think so. Get your kid out of there!!!
Interesting the father disrespects your parenting and now you're considering letting your son continue at a school that disrespects you too...
 

rosada

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"He needs to conquer his behavior." Is there a plan for how this is to happen? Just as a person doesn't magically learn algebra by being isolated in a room by themselves they don't develop social skills on their own either. Social integration doesn't just happen. There's a whole industry built up around "life coaches" and people spend millions studying the science of how to win friends and influence people. To toss him into a hostile environment with no friends and expect a young boy who has had so little positive social role modeling from his dad to figure it all out on his own is blind ignorance. What plan does the school have in place to turn this boy's life around? At the end of the two hour interrogation and subsequent detentions was the boy welcomed back into the classroom with affection? Did the head mistress shake his hand and tell him she now believed he was capable of great things at the school? Were the problems with the other boy dispersed and love and harmony restored? No? I didn't think so. Get your kid out of there!!!
Interesting the father disrespects your parenting and now you're considering letting your son continue at a school that disrespects you too...
 

Trojina

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"He needs to conquer his behavior." Is there a plan for how this is to happen? Just as a person doesn't magically learn algebra by being isolated in a room by themselves they don't develop social skills on their own either. Social integration doesn't just happen. There's a whole industry built up around "life coaches" and people spend millions studying the science of how to win friends and influence people.



Social integration should just happen if the conditions are right both at home and at school(if the child has no other conditions affecting him). I don't think teachers can be made wholly responsible for a child's emotional well being, that's the job of the family.


To toss him into a hostile environment with no friends and expect a young boy who has had so little positive social role modeling from his dad to figure it all out on his own is blind ignorance. What plan does the school have in place to turn this boy's life around?

But it isn't the school's job 'to turn this boy's life around' surely and why are you so sure this is a hostile environment. School can't do everything, be a parent and educate at the same time, families have to do that themselves and if struggling counsellors and so on but a school has hundreds of children to cater to. There isn't the resources to take one child and decide to turn his life around in most UK schools.


At the end of the two hour interrogation and subsequent detentions was the boy welcomed back into the classroom with affection? Did the head mistress shake his hand and tell him she now believed he was capable of great things at the school? Were the problems with the other boy dispersed and love and harmony restored? No? I didn't think so. Get your kid out of there!!!

You have a fairly idealistic picture of what is meant to happen at a school. Mind you I just get heartily tired of already over worked teachers being blamed for things, they are easy targets to blame. Also we don't have the facts really either of us. I don't see that the readings say 'get him out of there' and I don't see some detentions as a reason to do so. Given the massive disruption at home I'd think more disruption of schooling is the last thing he needs.

Also consider how busy the school staff are and yet how much time they have devoted to thinking about the boy's behaviour. They wouldn't be doing a two hour discussion/interrogation just for the fun of it, as a sadistic exercise. Most teachers and school staff are completely over stretched for time. So I could see it that the time and consideration they have given to his behaviour problems show they take it very seriously both for his sake and the sake of other pupils. I could see it that comes from a position of responsibility and care. I don't know of course but it isn't realistic IMO to jump to the conclusion this is a bunch of child hating sadists. I say that having some idea of schools in the UK where Veronica is I think (?)


This actually may be better than some schools where they just don't bother and there are plenty of those. A lax school might be very easy and 'turn a blind eye' to a lot of behaviour. They do that because it saves them time and bother. Seems to me the amount of time the school have given him shows quite a good degree of engagement.




Interesting the father disrespects your parenting and now you're considering letting your son continue at a school that disrespects you too...


I mean who knows you may be well right and it might be good to change schools but quite honestly from these readings and given we actually know very little of the situation other than what we pick up here I wouldn't like to be so sure it is necessary to change school. I also wouldn't be so sure the school disrespects Veronica.




It looks like neither option is disastrous, which is somewhat reassuring, but IÂ’m still unsure what is best for my son :) Perhaps I should wait and see what happens, and pray that the horrendous litigation with his dad is finally going to end!Â’


I'm unsure too in terms of schooling simply because I'm not you, I'm not there, I don't know him and you do. I think I'd be wary of pulling him straight out of that school just on the basis of the recent troubles there because things change so fast at that age.


Also I think I recall that you have had trouble with your son being aggressive to you ? Is that right or am I thinking of someone else ? The thing is if he has been physically aggressive to you then he has behavioural problems which a more lax school may not want to deal with...or then again they may have a different approach and more facilities. I don't know for sure it has to be your decision and I guess what he thinks counts too to a degree since he is 11, not so far from his teens..


31 is very reactive which is why I wondered if there was a bit too much reaction on your part and if Yi was answering conversationally, that is not to your exact question but to the whole issue then the 41 could be saying to decrease your level of reaction, no need to make big changes.


Explaining what I mean by conversationally. Sometimes when we may ask

what if I x ?

what if I y?


But Yi goes straight to the underlying issue instead like


What if I buy an umbrella ?

What if I don't buy an umbrella ?


Yi can simply cover first question with perhaps 'not needed' but then we ask another question 'what if I don't buy it ?' but Yi already said 'not needed' so the second answer is more of a comment on the first. Hard to explain but sometimes I do see a conversation developing rather than Yi being confined in how it answers. I've seen your answers as conversational but as I said they could be taken as direct comments. Even as direct comments though in your shoes I wouldn't rush, on the basis of these casts alone, to switch schools.


But only you know how bad it is at the school so in the end it is entirely down to you.
 
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Trojina

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Okay I just found the thread I was remembering here https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...best-course-of-action-with-my-son-Hex-2-lt-24


...so that was a very serious issue really . Has his violence to you stopped ?

There's some very complex issues here and it is sad, perhaps we should all send some healing thoughts to this little boy because he's really been going through it for a long time now. As it's a complex issue I don't see it's so easy to single the school out as the problem factor with his behaviour issues.

The school spent 2 hours talking to him you see and they wouldn't do that if they weren't seriously concerned I think





Just out of interest is the school he is at now this school you asked about here a few years ago

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?23442-Which-school-for-my-sonen't
 

veronica

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Trojina, you are amazing, yes it is the same one! You see, back then the reading regarding the current school was more obviously positive. You are right, maybe it has more to do with my anxious reactions and overthinking the situation.... Perhaps I should step back and observe. BTW my son is seeing a counsellor on Wednesday, who will work with him (and me) on building social skills and 'resilience through adversity and stress".
 

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