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Is the division of the stalks in two heaps to be done with eyes closed?

Leerling

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Is the division of the bundle of yarrow stalks in two "heaps" to be done with eyes closed?
 

equinox

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I have no experience with this traditional method, only with the yarrow stalk online tool, but:

I think it doesn't matter. The important thing is that you build a connection with the oracle, no matter how. Do it in a way that feels right and coherent for you.
Btw I personally prefer consulting oracles (I-Ching, tarot, fortune telling cards) with open eyes.
 
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svenrus

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As You want balance/Dao to be kept:
divide them as equal as possible with your eyes open
(but without counting them of course).
 

Leerling

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As You want balance/Dao to be kept:
divide them as equal as possible with your eyes open
(but without counting them of course).

Thank you! That's what I would have done if I hadn't seen a video where it was said one should close ones eyes while dividing the stalks. But apparently there are different ways of throwing the I Ching with yarrow stalks. So I better keep my eyes open.
 
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svenrus

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Hi,
If You by chance got the link to that video I would like to watch it
 
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svenrus

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Thank You,

The procedure is OK but I personally don't understand why the eyes should be closed... (?)

In THIS pdf, from page 4 (93), Method of divination, the traditional way is explained by Wei Tat from his book An exposition of the I Ching or book of changes.
 

Leerling

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Indeed, nothing is said in the pdf about closing the eyes. I think closing the eyes might be meant to prevent conscious manipulation of the division. But if you do it in one swift non-deliberate movement I don't see how that could be a problem.
 
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svenrus

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I agree.

Probably the diviners meditated before and maybe during the consultation; but a thought came to me when seeing the video, namely that "gswarner" (who made it) had in mind the same process as with a deck of cards where the cards must be unseen when choosing....
 

equinox

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Hm... I am still not convinced that it matters if you consult with closed /open eyes. I think if you want to unconsciously manipulate the oracle in order to get an answer you wish to receive then you already do so with your thoughts before your hands do anything. And if you consciously plan to manipulate the oracle, well, then the whole procedure couldn't be more pointless anyways, of course.
 

Leerling

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Hm... I am still not convinced that it matters if you consult with closed /open eyes. I think if you want to unconsciously manipulate the oracle in order to get an answer you wish to receive then you already do so with your thoughts before your hands do anything.

Hard to say for any particular consultation whether you unconsciously want or do not want to manipulate the oracle. So I personally don't see how one could know or verify what the effects of such unconscious thoughts are.

And if you consciously plan to manipulate the oracle, well, then the whole procedure couldn't be more pointless anyways, of course.

In the case you consciously plan to manipulate the oracle then the whole procedure would indeed be pointless, but people actually do lots of pointless things. So a precaution against conscious manipulation wouldn't be that bad for somebody who knows of his weakness in this regard.
 
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svenrus

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Concerning divination with stalks of yarrow:

On page 5 (84) A conjectural schema of yarrow stalk Divination:

PDF
 

Rks1157

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It depends on who you ask. The yarrow stalk method is a reproduction. The original method has been long lost to the sands of time so we cannot know how the ancients approached the practice.

Some authors take the approach that the I Ching should be wrapped in silk, placed on a high shelf and that the stalks should be passed through incense smoke before dividing them. These authors suggest closing your eyes during the division. Others take a more pragmatic approach and remain silent on rituals. So what's right? What's right is what is right for you. If closing your eyes puts you more in touch with the process then by all means continue the practice.
 

rosada

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Okay, I just asked the IC if the oracle should be consulted with eyes open or shut.
I received 4.5 - 59.
I think it says the important thing is the attitude but also I think it tilts towards consulting with eyes open - a sign if an open and trusting attitude.
 

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