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Will Kavanaugh be confirmed? 58.4.5 -> 19

mulberry

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I asked if Brent Kavanaugh, current Trump nominee to the Kennedy vacancy on the Supreme Court, will be confirmed.

For context, he has a really shady past, from large debts supposedly from buying tens of thousands of dollars of baseball tickets (possibly from gambling) being suddenly paid off, to his involvement in the Ken Starr/Clinton investigations in the 1990s, to his time in the Bush administration (Republicans are withholding thousands of documents relating to his actions then), to now there being allegations that he attempted to violently rape a woman in high school. The Kennedy resignation is also shady.

Anyway, my biases are probably clear by now. I don't want to see him confirmed. That said, I asked Yi for an outlook. I did this because during the 2016 election, I also asked Yi questions about Clinton and Trump, and a bit chillingly, knew several months ahead of time that Clinton would not be sworn in and Trump would be our next president thanks to Yi's answers. This even though it was definitely not what I wanted, and even though I attempted at first to find other ways to interpret it. But it was too clear. Also, I had my doubts about the oracle at times (sorry, Yi!) because of Clinton's poll numbers which made it seem impossible for Trump. The whole process deepened my understanding of the oracle. Anyway, just for background.

So, finally, the Kavanaugh reading: Will Kavanaugh be confirmed? 58.4.5 -> 19

I'm not sure about this one! 58.5 is such a painful line—I know firsthand how literal it can be. There are many players for which this line could apply, everything from Republicans supporting Kavanaugh to their detriment in the upcoming midterms (Roy Moore's shocking loss in Louisiana last year shows how dangerous it is for R's to blindly support sexual predators), to Kavanaugh trusting that elements within the administration will protect him and his secrets in exchange for support in future cases, when someone may be about to cut him loose (we'll see).

58.4 just seems to starkly lay out the confirmation process as it stands--"Haggling opening, not yet at rest" and "Putting limits on the affliction brings rejoicing". Despite the victim's request, the FBI and Republicans have refused to investigate Kavanaugh and the assault allegations. So far this appears to be working for them, but we'll see.

I love 19 in this context because it often means there's a failure at the very end of a process due to a lack of planning and organization in the beginning.

We shall see!
 

Lavalamp

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Will Kavanaugh be confirmed? 58.4.5 -> 19

19 Approach - the context. The Advance and Arrival of the Superior Man. So from this I take it the subject in the reading is Kavanaugh.

58.4 This is a tricky line to read. But Cleary boils it down this way:
(1): Joy after deliberation: If one is firm and wary without complacency, there will be happiness.
(2): Deliberating about delight, one is uneasy. If one is firm and swift, there will be happiness.
This indicates after an uncomfortable process he will be confirmed, and the quicker it happens the less stress there will be.

58.5
Legge: The fifth line, dynamic, shows its subject trusting in one who would injure him. The situation is perilous. Wilhelm/Baynes: Sincerity toward disintegrating influences is dangerous.
I read this as people are trying to destroy Kavanaugh. He should not expect them to be sincere towards him, they are trying to obliterate him and would be happy to do so.

I think the reading says if Kavanaugh is firm and careful, he will be confirmed.

- LL
 

Lavalamp

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Also one thing that I think that is always worth noting is when the Yi likes somebody and when it doesn't. The Yi can be very critical of people it does not like. And there plenty of lines with which to indicate a person is not a good person.
And here, the Yi describes the opponents of Kavanaugh as "disintegrating influences." Not in any way superior fair or noble, it is a most unflattering and inferior description.

- LL
 
D

diamanda

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Will Kavanaugh be confirmed? 58.4.5 > 19

I remember this cast about another political question of some sort, so I looked for it and found it. The question on that thread was "prospects for Stephen Crabb as an aspiring PM (for the UK)". The cast was the same as above, and the result was "no, none" (he came nowhere even close). Here's that old thread:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...849-who-will-be-next-prime-minister-of-the-UK

It will be very interesting if it's a yes here.
 

Lavalamp

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Well Diamanda, for that casting the question was not "Will Stephen Crabb be elected Prime Minister?"
It was about the prospects for an aspirant. While answering both questions might be inclusive of a description of similar oppositional forces - they *are* different questions.

- LL
 
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diamanda

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Yes of course they are different questions. The old one was "prospects for x becoming PM?", and this one is "will y be confirmed?". I find it a very interesting comparison, because it's the exact same cast about two political situations.
 

Lavalamp

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The question was specifically worded about the "prospects for someone's aspirations;" in my view that is an enquiry into the situation one must deal with. I read the thread, the question was not worded "Will he be elected." That would be an equivalent question.
So it would not be a conflict if there is a different result.
We shall see.

- LL
 
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diamanda

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LL if you read that thread more carefully, you will see that:

  • The subject of the thread is "who will be next prime minister of the UK".
  • The first two questions are "whether it would be Boris Johnson" and "if the PM will be another possible contender, Theresa May".
  • Then another candidate appeared (SC) and I asked if anyone can cast about him. Mirian cast, and she phrased it slightly differently. In essence she was asking if SC would be PM.

If you feel that that identical cast is not at all relevant here, then fine, you don't have to even look at it. It is definitely relevant to me, hence I wanted to mention that thread on this one.
 

rosada

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I think 19’s caution about danger in the 8th month can be read as a reference to the feeling Congress is rushing the whole confirmation process. Certainly if he is confirmed and more stories about his sordid past continue to be revealed there is going to be blood in th streets.
 

Lavalamp

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I go by the actual question asked, not the question asked on other castings.
That is what I read was the actual question.
But there is not point arguing it because we will know for certain soon enough. I just know there have been other times when people thought looking at results that the Yi had contradicted itself, but reading the questions more carefully I really didn't see contradiction at all.

=LL
 

my_key

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Here's another take on the process of him being confirmed
His style of communication will excite people and he will keep saying all the right things. He has to choose someway that he can show he can walk the walk and not just talk the talk. His strategy will be to rise above his past and put that to bed in some way while bringing forward some exciting new proposals. If that cannot be achieved with integrity then the way will be closed.
 

Lavalamp

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58.4 (1): Joy after deliberation.
After the hearings he will not be unhappy. I think his accusers will not acquit themselves well, already every witness named has impeached both his accuser's stories. But there will be a hearing.

58.5 Wilhelm/Baynes: Sincerity toward disintegrating influences is dangerous.

He is allowing these people to wound him right now. He s trying to have an open heart towards people that are not sincere and are trying to destroy him. He says all he wants is a fair hearing, but that is a dangerous course to ask for fairness when your enemies have no intention of being fair at all.
It would safer to summon up his dignity and fight for his honor.

- LL
 

rosada

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Auuugh, again the frustrations of asking "yes/No" questions!
Anyway, some more comments just for fun -

Perhaps Kavanaugh is not the "superior man" referred to here. The question was "will Kavanaugh be confirmed?" so wouldn't that put the power with Congress? So the question is "Will Congress confirm Kavanaugh?" and thus it is Congress who is the unity described as the superior man. With that thought in mind then...

58.4 (all these I Ching quotes are from Hilary's book)
You [Congress] are considering and discussing change, you want to settle all the details before you commit yourself, so you can be sure how things will work and more confident that you're making the right decision.
You [Congress] are also under great pressure to decide. This magnifies your restlessness into deep anxiety; unless you set some limits to this, it will tend to take over and turn the negotiations into obsessive haggling.
If you [Congress] rest secure in the knowledge of what you want and what you need, you can reach your decision calmly, in your own time. You'll find that participating in the interplay of negotiation enriches you, and the dance of exchange is something you can enjoy.

The above seems to me to be mirroring the questioning of Kavanaugh going on and seems to be a shout out from the I Ching to the Congress that they must beware of getting caught up in partisan politics and also that this is an opportunity to do what Congress was designed to do, that is to discuss issues calmly in order to reach the best informed decision.

58.5
Trusting in stripping away, there is danger.

Here is where I think is important to know if the I Ching is referring to Kavanaugh or Congress. If Kavanaugh, then this line could indeed be saying his enemies are trying to undermine him. But if this refers to Congress then the line could be warning them against Kavanaugh and particularly not to feel pressured by special interest groups:

"You [Congress} place your trust in something [someone] unreliable [The President? Kavanaugh? Special interest groups?]. with risks you are quite unaware of. You [Congress] might be forfeiting your authority and autonomy here [!!!] PERHAPS, to move to a new level of experience you might need to open yourself more [and say, what the heck, let's take a chance..] but this is a dangerous idea if it leads you to surrender control[!!!] Where are you placing your trust and why?"

Then we have hexagram 19. Nearing which makes great sense if you read it as Congress in the act of LOOKING for a supreme court judge - a man who is to be elevated to a high position that requires a great understanding of how the law works to overcome decay and corruption [19. follows 18. Fixing what has been Spoiled] and who has the desire to then teach others the laws and to "accept and protect ALL people without limit."(19. Nearing follows 18. Work on what has been Spoiled - so after mastering how the law works to resolve corruption the person is ready to guide others.) But the point is NEARING means approaching - not there yet. And then the bit about the 8th month (I think right now we are in the 8th month according to the Chinese calendar, correct?) being too soon as in a decision made too soon results in disaster.

So in sum, I don't see these hexagrams as telling us yes or no but rather reminding us that Congress is really on the line here to their duty as an independent branch of government meaning not to just rubber stamp any nominee and especially not to make a decision based on partisan politics.

Personally I think 19. as the resulting hexagram points to Kavanaugh being confirmed. As the resulting hex it has no change lines and thus I don't think the 8th month curse will change things. We shall see...
 

rosada

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Hmmm...can I change my bet? Now as more and more details about Kavanaugh are coming out I can't believe Congress is going to just rubber stamp this guy. But I don't think the reading tells us the answer one way or the other. It's like a photograph of the situation and then we have to guess from the picture what happens next. I'm seeing the picture as saying Congress's responsibility is to discuss and evaluate this candidate and then come to a decision based on their own independent thinking as to whether this man will make a good teacher and guide for all the citizens - but not whether this will this Congress be able to do that. Maybe another question would be helpful, like, "Describe the man who is ultimately confirmed."
 

giraffe

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22 unchanging

Read these posts and will be interesting to see what happens. I decided to ask the same question, (and just for the record I dearly hope he doesn’t get confirmed) “Will Kavanaugh be confirmed as Supreme Court Judge?” Received 22 unchanging. From the image, Hilary’s translation : A noble one brings light to the many standards, but does not venture to pass judgement.
 

rosada

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Okay, but it's your reading so how do YOU interpret the line? I see it as saying he's bringing light to many standards - as in his nomination alone shows just how low the standards are (Ha!) - but he will not be put in a position to pass judgements, and thus he will not be confirmed. Or maybe it means the whole confirmation process is a charade, his being confirmed was already a forgone conclusion and these hearings have no influence on the already agreed upon judgement - which is that he will be confirmed. Or maybe because you received an unchanging hexagram the answer is that this phantom possibility never changes into something real and thus he is not confirmed. Or maybe... oh the heck with it. As you say, it will be interesting to see what happens...
 

giraffe

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The interpretation that the trial process is all just just show/charade/surface could be the scary truth of it
 

Lavalamp

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Rosada, Kavanaugh was clearly the subject in the original question.
There is a huge difference between asking "Will *Kavanaugh* be confirmed?" and "Will the *Senate* confirm Kavanaugh?" One question has one subject, the second a subject and an object.
Entirely different questions.

Kavanaugh took the Yi's advice today, he ditched sincerity towards disintegrating influences and blasted Senate Democrats.

- LL
 

Lavalamp

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Did Judge Brett Kavanaugh really sexually assault Christine Ford?

21.3.5>13

21.3 - Bites on old dried meat and strikes something poisonous. Slight humiliation. No blame.
21.5 - Bites on dried lean meat. Receives yellow gold. Perseveringly aware of danger. No blame.
(Wilhelm/Baynes,)

Hex 21 often refers to legal decisions. Biting Through.
Dried out or cured meat is a very old issue. Poison (or decay) speaks for itself.
Yellow Gold is the color of the middle way, the case is difficult but clear cut, and the decision just.

Both lines say no blame (alternately "Without fault.")

No, Brett Kavanaugh did not sexually assault Christine Ford.

- LL
 

rosada

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Wow, this is interesting!

Will Kavanaugh be confirmed?
58.4.5 - 19.

Now looks what's happened - 19. says if the action is taken in the eighth month (or "too soon") there will be disaster - and the decision has now been delayed into the ninth month!

So does this mean he will ultimately be confirmed after the delay, or was this the final answer - they keep haggling and the decision is delayed.

Does this new situation call for a new consult?
 

Lavalamp

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"Will Brett Kavanaugh be confirmed now?"
15.3>2
15 Modesty, Humbleness.
15.3 The third line, dynamic, shows the superior man of acknowledged merit. He will maintain his success to the end, and have good fortune.

Well whatever happens, he will have good fortune. He has hundreds of friends an is not he lucky and rich that has many Freinds?

- LL
 

soshin

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Wow, this is interesting!

Will Kavanaugh be confirmed?
58.4.5 - 19.

Now looks what's happened - 19. says if the action is taken in the eighth month (or "too soon") there will be disaster - and the decision has now been delayed into the ninth month!

So does this mean he will ultimately be confirmed after the delay, or was this the final answer - they keep haggling and the decision is delayed.

Does this new situation call for a new consult?

The "Eight Month" (Bailu) ends about October 8th. At least nowadays. I'm not sure of how the ancient Chinese counted months.
 

rosada

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Will K. be confirmed?
15.3 - 2

Certainly 2 as the second hexagram suggests it would be better for him if he could just quietly leave the stage now. But just in case he does get confirmed perhaps it means:

He plays his part well and then disappears into the void.

So maybe 15.3 - 2 means he gets confirmed and then we don't hear much from him again. He sits silently on the bench ruling as his role as far right conservative dictates.
 

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