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Mean old daddy 56.5>33

Ichingtarot

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Good afternoon. My question was to the IChing "How can I have a better relationship with YOU" I have studied the IChing for over 30 years; my Mom taught me when I was in my teens. Still, Sometimes the answers are obvious and sometimes they are puzzles. One would think I’d have a stronger understanding by now.

This reply made me laugh because Line 5 could be saying "you can’t Handle the truth". Or more softly, my aspiration exceeds my comprehension. The theme of hexagram 56 invites me to go away, and hexagram 33 advises to maintain a distance. What? I’m being chastised? Ah IChing you’re a mean old daddy, but I like you.
 

moss elk

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You could start by trying to comprehend the meaning of the line.
In your post above you did not mention the lines meaning.

(part of the line is about demonstrating your merit.)
 

my_key

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Hi Ichingtarot

A long and illustrious relationship with the Yi and one full of insights and at other times confusion - that about sums it up for many people. The lines spoke a different story for me that the one you have recounted here, one more of assistance for you to grow into a more intimate relationship with the Yi rather than it chastising you

"How can I have a better relationship with YOU" 56:5 >33

56: The Seeker in you has to delve deeper now - give greater inner consideration and the new relationship will become evident for you
line 5 - Become more considerate in how you seek the divination. Prepare with a clearer intent and the arrow will hit the mark.
33: Over all, stay small in your approach, deliberate thoroughly and let the words come to you rather than chasing them down.

Maybe it is saying none of these things as well.

Good Luck.

 
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Freedda

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You could start by trying to comprehend the meaning of the line. In your post above you did not mention the lines meaning. (part of the line is about demonstrating your merit.)
Moss Elk, it seems that they did try to understand the line, when they said:

"Line 5 could be saying "you can’t Handle the truth". Or more softly, my aspiration exceeds my comprehension."​

Or at least that's how I understood it.


Best, David.
 

moss elk

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Moss Elk, it seems that they did try to understand the line...

You either have a very generous heart, or can see what I still cannot.
(because the two statements don't seem to have anything to do with the line, IMO)
 
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Freedda

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You either have a very generous heart, or can see what I still cannot.
(because the two statements don't seem to have anything to do with the line, IMO)
Agreed. I only meant to say that they provided some sort of response. Because I'm at work, I didn't really look closely, but it wasn't ringing any bells for me either. Best, D.
 

Trojina

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Good afternoon. My question was to the IChing "How can I have a better relationship with YOU"


Do you remember you asked this exact same question before here


https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...-better-communicate-with-the-IChing-29-2-gt-8



I have studied the IChing for over 30 years; my Mom taught me when I was in my teens. Still, Sometimes the answers are obvious and sometimes they are puzzles. One would think I’d have a stronger understanding by now.

This reply made me laugh because Line 5 could be saying "you can’t Handle the truth". Or more softly, my aspiration exceeds my comprehension. The theme of hexagram 56 invites me to go away, and hexagram 33 advises to maintain a distance. What? I’m being chastised? Ah IChing you’re a mean old daddy, but I like you.


I can't for the life of me imagine how you come to that conclusion from 56.5. I'm baffled. Also baffled by the 'mean old daddy' .


Probably be useful to post an actual translation of the line somewhere in the thread
 
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diamanda

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How can I have a better relationship with YOU
56.5 > 33

The first thing that comes to mind when reading the answer, your first shot at the answer: this is it, look no further. Also, you can't have a relationship, just a one-night-stand ;-)
 
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Freedda

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Also baffled by the 'mean old daddy' .

From 'Carrie' by Joni Mitchell:

Oh Carey get out your cane
And I'll put on some silver
Oh you're a mean old Daddy, but I like you fine

I think it's meant as a bit of word play on Ichingtarot's take on the I Ching response:

Sometimes the answers ... are puzzles ... and theme of hexagram 56 invites me to go away, and hexagram 33 advises to maintain a distance ... AND ... I’m being chastised?
... As in, the I Ching is being a mean ol' daddy with these responses ... or something like that.


Best, David.
 

Trojina

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I meant how can 56.5 mean 'mean old daddy' there is nothing mean about the answer and nothing about 'chastisement' in 56.5 .

I know she meant mean old daddy with these responses what I am asking is why ?? What is mean about it ?

How can line 5 mean 'you can't handle the truth' ? I can recall the translation but can't be bothered to copy it out.
 

Trojina

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Okay this is what the I Ching says for 56.5. Hilary's translation


'Shooting a pheasant,
Gets it with one arrow.
And so in the end, praise and a mandate.'



So where do you see this


This reply made me laugh because Line 5 could be saying "you can’t Handle the truth". Or more softly, my aspiration exceeds my comprehension. The theme of hexagram 56 invites me to go away, and hexagram 33 advises to maintain a distance. What? I’m being chastised? Ah IChing you’re a mean old daddy, but I like you.


Where do you get from the actual translation that 'you can't handle the truth' I really am curious to know ? The chastisement ? Where is that in the line ?
 

Ichingtarot

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Admittedly There is some ambiguity in the various interpretations of this line so differing views were requested. Thank you for taking time to respond. 1. The arrow suggests a goal or target. 2. The pheasant is a creature of air, hence symbolic of a concept or thought. In the end of line 5, The arrow is lost and the pheasant is given away. 3. What’s left? As Moss Elk said, part of the line is about demonstrating my merit. The image shows I’ve lost Both goal and idea, no merit. Thus My aspiration exceeds my comprehension. Or, As Jack Nicholson would say ‘you can’t handle the truth’. Thank you David, I WAS quoting Joni Mitchell. I’m sure the IChing knew I meant no disrespect. :) Trojina I do ask the same question more than once...especially when it’s about my spiritual growth. It’s part of the journey, no? As diamonda said, the IChing isn’t a one night stand. Thank you my_key ...
 

moss elk

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2. The pheasant is a creature of air, hence symbolic of a concept or thought.

Just to add, the pheasant as referenced here is not a metaphor for thought.
The pheasant was a yummy delicacy, that was hunted, and offered to the local lord.
 

moss elk

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Historians and such do.

What I see happen so often here with Yi study is that people bring in there own learned associations with the images and objects. The Western association with air and mind is not present in Yi.

Fire is more likely to indicate intelligence and illumination as opposed to Anger which is represented in Yi often as Horns.

So, unlearn the greek associations to start understanding this book.
 

Trojina

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Admittedly There is some ambiguity in the various interpretations of this line so differing views were requested. Thank you for taking time to respond. 1. The arrow suggests a goal or target. 2. The pheasant is a creature of air, hence symbolic of a concept or thought. In the end of line 5, The arrow is lost and the pheasant is given away. 3. What’s left? As Moss Elk said, part of the line is about demonstrating my merit. The image shows I’ve lost Both goal and idea, no merit. Thus My aspiration exceeds my comprehension. Or, As Jack Nicholson would say ‘you can’t handle the truth’. Thank you David, I WAS quoting Joni Mitchell. I’m sure the IChing knew I meant no disrespect. :) Trojina I do ask the same question more than once...especially when it’s about my spiritual growth. It’s part of the journey, no? As diamonda said, the IChing isn’t a one night stand. Thank you my_key ...


I took it that Diamanda did say it was a one night stand not that it wasn't.

diamanda
How can I have a better relationship with YOU
56.5 > 33
The first thing that comes to mind when reading the answer, your first shot at the answer: this is it, look no further. Also, you can't have a relationship, just a one-night-stand ;-)



I think I'd pretty much go along with her idea that your first shot is the answer. In my own experience this line is just as it says, there's not much complication. The traveller has made himself useful by getting the pheasant straight away, just one shot and so he gets in with the people/gets the position, whatever the goal is.


So I'd see it perhaps as the need for less complication. For example I think this is too cerebral for want of a better word

1. The arrow suggests a goal or target. 2. The pheasant is a creature of air, hence symbolic of a concept or thought. In the end of line 5, The arrow is lost and the pheasant is given away. 3. What’s left?


Well yes the arrow would be the attempt at connection with Yi I guess, you can do it straight away, you don't need to have studied ancient Chinese for a century (although we owe so much to those who have done that work for us :bows:) because there's a connection with Yi that can fly straight past the intellect. Your own interpretation seems to me to have no connection with what the line says

'Shooting a pheasant,
Gets it with one arrow.
And so in the end, praise and a mandate.'



You can't just dismiss how well it ends up for the stranger surely ? With one arrow he earns praise and a mandate !


So there really is no chastisement here or meanness at all. I think Yi is saying a direct straightforward connection is possible and you bag the correct interpretation for yourself.


I feel a bit bad about criticizing your own interpretation given how we bang on here about people offering their own interpretations - you did and we haven't agreed with you but still.



I mentioned the other thread same question not because you shouldn't ask again but just because I wondered if there were an evolution in your Yi use between that question and this one.



I also think there's something in the idea of the one night stand even though it's tongue in cheek. I guess we don't live in Yi country, when we connect we visit it and we take away what we need. I think Yi may be encouraging you to take much more directly what you need from answers and perhaps take them more on a gut level than work through so much on a symbolic mental level. Of course we have to do all that, symbolic, mental and gut level together but it's possible Yi is saying here 'c'mon we can just talk face to face you know'. Perhaps it would be worth experimenting with taking the first thing that comes to mind as Diamanda suggested ? That really can work at times. I mean sometimes we might be too quick to settle but it sounds like with you Yi is indicating maybe you went too far in the analytic direction when actually your first thought is correct. You are being praised for that, not chastised. It's clear you have the ability to understand answers immediately so you can go ahead and use it.
 
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Freedda

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Maybe try a different direction or approach

Ichingtarot: you seem to be posing a bit of a conundrum here: on the one hand you are asking for advice on how to have a better relationship with the Yi; but on the other hand, you seem to want to hold on strongly to your current interpretations, even if they might be what is holding you back from the better Yi relationship. So ...

Besides the Wanderer, another name for Gua 56 is 'straying from one's element,' which might be advice to step outside of your Yi comfort zone, and perhaps to explore a different approach or points of view about the Yi. (Given that, I'm curious which translations you look to right now?)

Line 56.5 - In traveling in this new director something - which may feel like an essential tool (an arrow) - is lost, but don't worry; if it is lost it is just in service to the new direction you're exploring.

The related Gua 33 is called Distancing, or Retreating. Similar to 56, where you can step outside of your old beliefs, the advice here could be to give them some distance, to step back from them: you don't have to give them up, just explore in a different direction for a while, just as a Wanderer might.

Best, David.
 

Trojina

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I think ICtarot's interpretation hinged on a lost arrow but there is no lost arrow in Hialry's translation, it's only lost because it hit the bird. In Bradford's translation there is a lost arrow butit doesn't matter because it wins praise and office.


My personal experience with the line is I get what I need with one shot. I found the negative angle on it quite baffling I mean one cannot argue with the words

'And so in the end, praise and a mandate.'
 

Olga Super Star

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That’s my weekly cast for next week, so I’m really thrilled :flirt:
 

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