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Asking about other person's motivation - what does he want from me? (Hex 1.4)

mmvvdd80

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Hello everybody, it's my first post here. Please correct me if I've placed the post in the wrong section or if there are similar threads already. I've been trying to search the forum for the answer with no success. So the question is not exactly of how to understand the reading but rather what's the role of 2 hexagrams (primary and secondary) in a question of this type.

The question itself ("what does he want from me") was mentioned in some other thread as apropriate.The answer is 1.4.

Primary hexargram is all masculine and creative, with 4th line transforming it into misterious hex 9...

Where is the person of my query in this schema? Is he represented by the first hexagram? I'm quite used to read answers in terms of how myself and my situation is developing. And I fail to get out of the usual track of thought. (P.s. I've thoroughly read threads about whether is's worth asking about other person's feelings. For me it's not a way of unburden my pain or "spy" on him, but rather a way to address my intuition on the subject.)

Sorry for my English.
 
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diamanda

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Hi mmvvdd80,

what's the role of 2 hexagrams (primary and secondary) in a question of this type
There are quite a few theories about this, and quite a lot of threads. I go by primary is present / initial, and secondary is future / result.

The question itself ("what does he want from me") was mentioned in some other thread as apropriate
Any question is appropriate, as long as it doesn't seek to harm other human beings. Some questions are more helpful than others.

what does he want from me? 1.4 > 9
1 is the energetic erect masculine. Here, however, it's changing. Line 1.4 describes the masculine leaping up and down over a watery pit. This means that the masculine has no interaction with the 'water' (in relationships = sex). The result is 9, which means relationship games, and heavy desire but no sex. So, instead of acting energetically, the masculine acts with lack of sex and/or lack of interaction. Perhaps the masculine wants to frustrate the feminine, and force the feminine to play power games (9).
 

mmvvdd80

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Wow, just wow. Thanks a lot! I would never come to this conclusion, though I thought of control issues, since me and the person in question broke because of my too dominant attitude. But we're still in touch, meeting sometime to spend time together with his 10 years old daughter (he's divorced), but having no sex. So I'm trying to decide what strategy is the best to save the relationship. It's difficult because I'm too active indeed, and he definitely needs a woman to be submissive. Which I'd like to implement as well, if only I could find a balance between being more yin and having to take the initiative...Maybe it's better to wait and see now. Anyway I'm now quite sure what is the problem.

Thank you, Diamanda, it was totally insightfull.
 
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mmvvdd80

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As for the role of primary and secondary hexagrams, it turns out the first one represents the person in question, the second one describes what he could be needing of me. I feared the primary could describe me :)
 
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diamanda

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You're welcome, glad you found my reading helpful.

As for the role of primary and secondary hexagrams, it turns out the first one represents the person in question, the second one describes what he could be needing of me. I feared the primary could describe me :)
And yet you say "broke because of my too dominant attitude". What does that mean actually? Did you order him about...? Did you act like a man? (?) It's really hard to tell who is who here.

However:

Going from energetic and straightforward (1) to manipulative (9).
This is your answer - no matter who is who.

If that describes how he wants you to be, then he does not want you to be submissive. He wants you to be manipulative. If you want to figure out a strategy to get back together with him, you'll need another cast.
 
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Freedda

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mmvvdd80,

First, there are both free and reasonably-prices lessons available on this site which include the primary-related hexagram relationship

Second, if you were to search the posts for 'related' or 'related hexagram' I think you'll find quite a few posts about this.

Third, my take is that it is more art than science, but I don't often start by thinking of the related as being the future or the outcome of the situation. Instead, I usually start by seeing the primary as the situation or the overall field of play of your situation: i.e. you might look at it as this (the primary) kind of situation. And I often start with the related as: you may want to look at or approach Situation A through this (the related). One is then situation; the other is an approach to it.

And again, even though I think this is a good starting point, it is often more fluid and dynamic than that. But I believe it is always good to think in terms of relationships: the primary is related to the question, and the lines and related to the primary.

Fourth, I don't really think that the Yi reads others' minds; instead, I think it is giving insight and advice on one's own feelings and relationship to the question or issue. (I know others don't share this approach.) So, if someone asks 'does X like me?' I usually think the response is exploring: 'here is some insight about your feelings towards and relationship with X.' I feel it gives people more personal responsibility and options they can act on, rather than relying on what others think and feel.

Finally, sometimes the Yi seems to give advice in a 'contrary' way; so if it says 'this is bad' I don't often read it as 'you are sh-t out of luck,' but instead it could be 'if you take this approach, it might not turn out so well' which of course gives the option to do something different.

There is a sticky at the topof the 'exploring divination' forum which discusses this subject.
 

MeltingPot247

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Hi mmvvdd80,I asked the same question yesterday and received the same answer, using coins.......Interestingly enough, my s/o at this time advised me not long after we met, that he is dominant...and he could tell that I wasn't submissive by nature - however as I viewed him as an Alpha, i.e stronger than me, I was more than happy to let him take charge...yet we ended up in an equal position somehow. I'm not sure if he expected this to happen. I sure didn't because I was in awe of him when we first met, as I think of myself as average and wondered how and why on Earth did we meet ...as others have said above, there seems to be a lot of desire but 'no sex'...and that is my situation with him now I guess - he knows that I desire him and I know that he desires me...and if I am as in tune with him as I think I am, than this hexagram means that he wants to hold off having sex with me again in future and I also want to refrain...because there is a lot of power being exchanged in the act between us. I'm assuming here... but your mate might just be trying to build up his energy and strength in order to try to match or exceed yours if you end up in the bedroom together.
 

Trojina

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As for the role of primary and secondary hexagrams, it turns out the first one represents the person in question, the second one describes what he could be needing of me. I feared the primary could describe me :)


How do you mean 'it turns out the first one represents the person in question' :confused: it doesn't, there aren't such rules there unless you mean that is what you decided.

Here is a discussion thread on the meaning of the relating hexagram

I don't know where all this stuff about submissive/dominant comes from because it's not in the reading. Also I think you need to be clear whether you are speaking of sexual preferences which is one thing or your every day relationship. People cannot help their sexual orientation, what turns them on but to sort of extend that into daily life especially when you are role model to a 10 year old girl doesn't seem ideal - hang on that's wrong it's not your daughter it's his, sorry. I really am getting confused between melting pot's situation and your situation which appear to be similar and you express yourselves in a similar way so that's why I'm confused



MeltingPot247

Hi mm

,I asked the same question yesterday and received the same answer, using coins.....


….even weirder you also have a 10 year old daughter I think ?

mmvvdd80
But we're still in touch, meeting sometime to spend time together with his 10 years old daughter (he's divorced), but having no sex.


Isn't that exactly your position ? Same question, same answer, similar life situation - except it's your daughter that's 10 ? Uncanny.


If 1.4 is a direct answer to your question which it may not be then surely 1.4 shows being in transition, not sure whether to take the plunge or not.
 
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mmvvdd80

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Hi, Trojina.

[ QUOTE]I don't know where all this stuff about submissive/dominant comes from because it's not in the reading. Also I think you need to be clear whether you are speaking of sexual preferences which is one thing or your every day relationship. People cannot help their sexual orientation, what turns them on but to sort of extend that into daily life especially when you are role model to a 10 year old girl doesn't seem ideal - hang on that's wrong it's not your daughter it's his, sorry. I really am getting confused between melting pot's situation and your situation which appear to be similar and you express yourselves in a similar way so that's why I'm confused[ /QUOTE]

Yes, the stuations do look similar, but mine is post-breakup while Melting Pot's is developing. I read somewhere that is't not productive to ask Yi of others' feelings if there's not a living relationship behind the question. Maybe I'm lying to myself and my real question is if there is any sense in trying to do something to repair the broken bond.

But my s/o's readiness to contribute to my contact with his daughter puzzles me. It's not easy for him to find a time slot in her schedule, to organize it all. So maybe he just want's my help in bonding with his daughter. Maybe it's just his politeness. It's very important for him to be a knight in this world, so leaving me must damaged his self-esteem and maybe he's just trying to atone for his decision.

So every time we meet I have this poll of details on how he acts and reacts regarding me. There's kindness, affection, shyness, blushing, etc. I would given up already if not for these ditails.

So it's not about sexual relations at all. (Though, and it's funny, I've asked recently "What to do to recover my love relationships with him" and got 44 St, which I very much wished to read as "go meet him and have sex" :)
 
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mmvvdd80

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I'm sorry, I just cannot figure out how you people format text so nicely... Line breaks would be especially precious...
 

mmvvdd80

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Hi mmvvdd80,I asked the same question yesterday and received the same answer, using coins.......Interestingly enough, my s/o at this time advised me not long after we met, that he is dominant...and he could tell that I wasn't submissive by nature - however as I viewed him as an Alpha, i.e stronger than me, I was more than happy to let him take charge...yet we ended up in an equal position somehow. I'm not sure if he expected this to happen. I sure didn't because I was in awe of him when we first met, as I think of myself as average and wondered how and why on Earth did we meet ...as others have said above, there seems to be a lot of desire but 'no sex'...and that is my situation with him now I guess - he knows that I desire him and I know that he desires me...and if I am as in tune with him as I think I am, than this hexagram means that he wants to hold off having sex with me again in future and I also want to refrain...because there is a lot of power being exchanged in the act between us. I'm assuming here... but your mate might just be trying to build up his energy and strength in order to try to match or exceed yours if you end up in the bedroom together.

Hi, MeltingPot247, this is what I find to be the most amazing aspect of being the part of this community. Possibility to compare experience as well as the readings. Extrapolate, apply someone's patterns of thought to different kind of questions. Still I'm often completely at loss how you guys get this short and nailing conclusions (e.g. yours "he wants to hold off having sex with me again in future") from the hexagrams in question. But I'm definitely in for learning.

Uncanny how the details are similar... E.g. me too is not at all submissive by nature (often quite the opposite) and he knew it from the beginning, still he informed me in the beginning that he's dominant in sex and appreciates traditional gender behavioural patterns.
 
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mmvvdd80

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mmvvdd80, First, there are both free and reasonably-prices lessons available on this site which include the primary-related hexagram relationshipSecond, if you were to search the posts for 'related' or 'related hexagram' I think you'll find quite a few posts about this. Third, my take is that it is more art than science, but I don't often start by thinking of the related as being the future or the outcome of the situation. Instead, I usually start by seeing the primary as the situation or the overall field of play of your situation: i.e. you might look at it as this (the primary) kind of situation. And I often start with the related as: you may want to look at or approach Situation A through this (the related). One is then situation; the other is an approach to it. And again, even though I think this is a good starting point, it is often more fluid and dynamic than that. But I believe it is always good to think in terms of relationships: the primary is related to the question, and the lines and related to the primary. Fourth, I don't really think that the Yi reads others' minds; instead, I think it is giving insight and advice on one's own feelings and relationship to the question or issue. (I know others don't share this approach.) So, if someone asks 'does X like me?' I usually think the response is exploring: 'here is some insight about your feelings towards and relationship with X.' I feel it gives people more personal responsibility and options they can act on, rather than relying on what others think and feel. Finally, sometimes the Yi seems to give advice in a 'contrary' way; so if it says 'this is bad' I don't often read it as 'you are sh-t out of luck,' but instead it could be 'if you take this approach, it might not turn out so well' which of course gives the option to do something different. There is a sticky at the topof the 'exploring divination' forum which discusses this subject.
Hi Freedda, thank you for the links. I'm just a beginner and hadn't had the time to read it all through, while the situation is a painfull mess as usual and I'm too subjective and nervous, not trusting myself with separating wishfull thinking from reality. So I decided to bother you all with direct question. I'm definitely is about to study I Ching thoroughly.
Finally, sometimes the Yi seems to give advice in a 'contrary' way; so if it says 'this is bad' I don't often read it as 'you are sh-t out of luck,' but instead it could be 'if you take this approach, it might not turn out so well' which of course gives the option to do something different.
Thanks, it's interesting logic, I'm gonna to rethink some of my old readings in this perspective.
 

mmvvdd80

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You're welcome, glad you found my reading helpful.And yet you say "broke because of my too dominant attitude". What does that mean actually? Did you order him about...? Did you act like a man? (?) It's really hard to tell who is who here.

Yes, I think the problem is I really got too far one time ordering him about. I'm too straightforward, active and so on. He likes to be dominant in sex which suits me fine, but my question about what he might be wanting from me in not about sex at all. I'm trying to understand how I perceive his intentions (if any) regarding me. I'm not very good in understanding people's behaviour. I might be seeing what I want to see or be blind to some obvious signs, suppresing them, not allowing myself see the situation conciously. I'm not trying to peek into his mind, I'd like to pierce into my own poll of impressions which result from our communication. To sum it all up.

Actually I'm deciding if I should give up the intention to resurrect our connection. I'd rather not. It's difficult for me to fall in love at the first place, and it usually takes me years to heal heartbreak wounds (last 2 heartbreaks took me 5 and 3 years accordingly). We've been together for 2 years with this person, everything seemed to be fine. He left me abruptly, without any conflicts and quarrels, saying we're too different and he has to take a pause to clarify to himself what he really needs in a relationship. I know for sure he's single now and not looking for a new partner. Also he said he hadn't frozen on me. I mean it's not as if he lost interest in me. Maybe it just was his polite attempt to make it less painfull for me to accept the break-up. So it's been 3 month since. We meet at some parties with mutual friends and spend time with his daughter with whom I get along tremendously well.

As I said he's divorced, his ex-wife left him for another man 2 years ago. Their daughter lives with mother of course, so he sees her not so often and has difficulty making contact and communicating with her. So when the three of us spend time together all goes smoothly and joyously because I'm very good in it and the child really opens up.Nevertheless it's always me who initiates these occasions.

As well as it's me who writes him first. Maybe I should cease my attempts. Or I should be patient, give him time, keep our connection, etc. I asked I Ching both questions of course, but I cannot decipher the readings, haha. My s/o's readiness to contribute to my contact with his daughter puzzles me. It's not easy for him to find a time slot in her schedule, to organize it all. So maybe he just want's my help in bonding with his daughter. Maybe it's just his politeness. It's very important for him to be a knight in his actions, so leaving me must damaged his self-esteem and maybe he's just trying to atone for his decision.So every time we meet I have this pull of details on how he acts and reacts regarding me. There's kindness, affection, shyness, blushing, etc. The problem is I'm afraid to be pushy, initiative, etc, this attitude might be the very reason he broke up with me. On the other hand I want him and his child in my life of course and am afraid to loose the chance by doing nothing instead of something. Same old :)

However:Going from energetic and straightforward (1) to manipulative (9). This is your answer - no matter who is who.If that describes how he wants you to be, then he does not want you to be submissive. He wants you to be manipulative. If you want to figure out a strategy to get back together with him, you'll need another cast.

I'm not very good at summing up hexagrams' meanings in few words. E.g. it's not obvious for me where is manipulation in hex 9. I understand hex 9 as an issue where feminine controls musculine and it's an obstacle.
 
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Trojina

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I'm sorry, I just cannot figure out how you people format text so nicely... Line breaks would be especially precious...


Most new members will have some issues with paragraphs and editing and such like. This is not your fault but a forum bug which will be sorted out eventually but meantime here is Hilary's solution for you to try which I have copied from her


Workarounds for paragraphs: switch editor, or switch browser.

To switch editor:
Go to 'General Settings', https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...do=editoptions
Towards the bottom of this page under 'Miscellaneous options' switch message editor to 'Standard editor'
At the bottom of the page click the 'save changes' button

Browsers that work better: Internet Explorer (heaven help us all) and Edge.

The workaround for anything that 'hangs', ie show you a spinny 'working' icon but never works, is to right-click it and choose 'open in new tab'.
 

mmvvdd80

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Thanks a lot! I suspected it might be a browser issue. I've just discovered new tab trick. Will try "Standard editor" mode and Edge.
 
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diamanda

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it's not obvious for me where is manipulation in hex 9. I understand hex 9 as an issue where feminine controls musculine and it's an obstacle.

Wilhelm calls it "keep the tyrant somewhat in check by friendly persuasion". Tuck Chang calls it "a small one plays games with the large; this suggests a battle of wits".
 

mmvvdd80

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Wilhelm calls it "keep the tyrant somewhat in check by friendly persuasion". Tuck Chang calls it "a small one plays games with the large; this suggests a battle of wits".

Oh, thanks, now I see your point. Anyway it still suggests straightforwardness should be avoided as too masculine approach.
 

mmvvdd80

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I'm very grateful for your help. Following this reading I asked another question:

-- How could I help him?

The answer was:

62.4 changing to 15 (Modesty)

Which I understood immediately as his urgent need to stop our communication. (Stay where you are, don't go further, modesty implies you are to stop being intrusive.)


It helped me to make a decision to give up trying. It's an important step to get myself free of the pain and start a new quest for other ways to be happy.
 
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diamanda

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We've been together for 2 years with this person, everything seemed to be fine. He left me abruptly, without any conflicts and quarrels, saying we're too different and he has to take a pause to clarify to himself what he really needs in a relationship.

Mmvvdd80, I understand that you're in love and in pain, but please use your common sense. It took him 2 whole years to realised you're too different? This is a rubbish excuse. After 2 whole years and he just goes 'poof', that's it, bye now. And all of a sudden he doesn't know what he needs in a relationship? Ahem... he's not a teenager, right? This is yet another rubbish excuse.

Have a quick look on this forum, or for that matter on any relationship forum, and you'll see that these are of the oldest and commonest excuses men use when they find someone else and want to dump you politely. All of a sudden they don't know what they want and need to clear themselves, blah blah. I mean, after two years, and without any prior indication - it just stinks of lying. A sincere person would have discussed first the differences with you, and would have tried to find a solution first. (edit: did he ever ask you to work on a solution on your "dominant attitude"? And in the end, what was the break-up cause, you being dominant or him "wanting to find out what he wants"?)

How could I help him? 62.4 > 15
You are assuming here that he needs your help.
Anyway, this combination means something like hi-and-bye. Have absolutely nothing to do with him other than a passing hello. Be on your guard when he's around, as there is a danger in the situation.
 

mmvvdd80

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Hi :) This sounds gloriously cruel and nice, thank you. I'll try.

I wish I could know for sure he's met someone new (though our mutual friends say he hasn't). Would save me a lot of time.

Here's a couple of details. First, he's been with only one woman before me - his ex wife, and she was an alpha in their relationship. He did hint he's not comfortable with me ruling him around, though he's always hated complaining and demanding and asking for comfort in relationship. I agree it's not fair. I hadn't got any chance to influence his decision somehow, to correct my behaviour. I think it indicates he never planned to be with me really long. To apply himself to this relationship.

Second, he's known for his idealistic view of the world, he spent most of his youthful years being single, searching for the true love and partner. So maybe his ex wife still rules his heart, I don't know.

The dark side of my vision is that he used me to overcome the pain of divorce. We were ok as long as things went superficially and I was hiding some of my personality. Maybe he's grown himself a bit of self-confidence via my admiration and support and now is about to enrich his life experience by trying other women.

He's 40, I'm 38. I've had a lot of relashionships, but never a stable one (usually 3-5 years long), a lot of heartbreak, years of loneliness. He's been married from his 26 till his 38, never had a woman before the marriage. We had super chemistry till the very end. Actually you're totally right, his excuses do sound strange.

I've asked Yi "How can I help him" not because I hoped he needs me. I just lacked a clear view. I wanted an answer like "He doesn't want any help from you, just wake up already". And I got one :)

The pain repeatedly makes me hide away from the facts and wrap myself in illusions. It goes in circles. First I decide I'm over with it. Then I cannot bear the pain and invent ways to make it all last somehow. I'm really really grateful you shared your perspective on this situation. I embrace facing the facts. It's just because of living in total isolation from society now (avoiding contacts with our friends who know and see him), I'm definitely prone to sinking into the illusional universe where he's secretely missing me and is too shy to make first step :)

P.s. The nice part is that as long as I'm out of this game it's not important at all whether he's seeing someone or not.
Hope I'll have the strength to stick to my decision.
 

mmvvdd80

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I'm sorry, just have to thank you once more. Have read your post again. This is exactly the vision I had myself immediately after he killed me with his sudden escape. I was just too weak to accept the truth. Even if there's no one else there, he still was awfully insincere. Not the person I thought I was seeing. You know it's easier to blame myself of being a bad partner, of lacking femininity than accept that I was totally mistaken in him and his intentions.
 
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diamanda

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Oh what a story... you've written it all very eloquently. I especially liked this part:

The pain repeatedly makes me hide away from the facts and wrap myself in illusions. It goes in circles. First I decide I'm over with it. Then I cannot bear the pain and invent ways to make it all last somehow. I'm really really grateful you shared your perspective on this situation. I embrace facing the facts. It's just because of living in total isolation from society now (avoiding contacts with our friends who know and see him), I'm definitely prone to sinking into the illusional universe where he's secretely missing me and is too shy to make first step

This messy position, torn between heart and head, is very confusing indeed. It's also very familiar to a large amount of people, myself included. Your heart still loves the person, your head tells you to run in the opposite direction, you start running and your heart still hopes he'll appear running after you. So bizarre... Then around the corner you meet a Mads Mikkelsen look-alike, and pronto, you're cured :D
 

mmvvdd80

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Haha, the last part sounds promising! Though it took me 3 years of total loneliness to recover from my ex-ex-relashionship (with marriage and divorce). And my reproductive age is actually over. It's not easy to fall in love, especially living anti-social life, so next time I'll meet someone I'll probably be 41.

I mean it's harder and harder each time to hope to get myself a working relashionship, since I'm growing old. I'm sure it's very common layout as well. I almost not afraid of it. I have dozens of haxagrams' descriptions and analysis ahead of me to study! :)

Then there's always a quiet harbor of growing vegetables...
 

MeltingPot247

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RE: We've been together for 2 years with this person, everything seemed to be fine. He left me abruptly, without any conflicts and quarrels, saying we're too different and he has to take a pause to clarify to himself what he really needs in a relationship...

- I think I noticed in earlier posts that you also wrote about his dominant/controlling wife leaving him 2 years ago for another man, and so he rebounded with you pretty much when she left him?

Taking that into consideration, it sounds like he has a really valid and good reason to press pause on this relationship, and that he now wants time and space to be himself, on his own or with his daughter.

Hanging out with you has allowed him to get to know you more and and abruptly he's decided he needs a break, which might have something to do with him feeling overpowered like he was with his first wife, going by what you've described...this theme of one or both of you being 'too strong' is pretty much what I referred to in my first post.... and for me 1.4 to 9 still reflects that there is interest or desire, but that it needs to be softer/ lighter and harnessed more appropriately in future if there is sny chance for your connection to develop further.

Is it possible to take it easy, and do other things you love and enjoy, while he is sorting himself out?

Que sera, sera... ��
 

MeltingPot247

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Hexagram 1.4 Someone Dancing in the Abyss or in some translations, across the abyss.

For me dancing is a sensual, potentially romantic act and hex 1 as I understand is about creation - and where creation and dancing is involved, I see relationship potential.

However, the definition of abyss - a bottomless pit and/or a wide or profound difference between people; - relates to her love interest labelling them as too different.

Then the relating hexagram 9 - small changes, gave me the impression that there would be a chance for the relationship to go further if a more gentler approach towards him would be taken based on his expressed wishes, which to me sound very reasonable.

Giving the loved interest what they asked for in this case - appears to be a simple request for time out and space .. with no pressure to commit or to make relationship decisions- because someone else wants them to.

People deserve the right to be themselves and to remember who they are when no one us around.

Men and women deserve to be at peace with themselves...and it sounds like others on this forum don't believe this guy needs the time out that he's asked to have from the poster.

When people are content and at peace, they are more likely to pick up on the commonalities they have with others and instead of all the differences.

I see the request for time out as a positive thing, as long as the requesr is respected.
 

mmvvdd80

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Hi MeltingPot247, thanks for your thoughts. I've had exactly the same understanding of 1.4. Give him space, don't be pushy, don't threaten his musculinity with your dominance, in this case giving him to be the lead in initiating our communication (if any).

I agree that it's not necessarily means he'll be thinking of me when he's ready to try himself in a relationship again. For now facts are against any hope:

- he doesn't initiate communication himself at all
- he returns me my posessions from his apartment
- he's made some changes in his appearance (new haircut, no beard, new avatars in social networks)
- and his strange words when I offered to restore "a pause" status instead break-up few weeks ago. He said: "Some situations need much more time than a pause implies".

This last one needs explanation. When he first offered to take a pause in our relashionship I reacted badly and insitsted it to be a formal break-up. This was because he copied how his wife handled their separation: saying nothing certain for 3 years she just was cold and distant to him, denying him an explanation of what was happening, and finally he had to let her go himself (after that she immediately joined her "old friend"). She's refused telling my s/o what was wrong with him, why she's left him. So I was scared he was about to use the same approach with me and I rebelled against it. Later regret killed my will and I met with him and asked to restore "a pause" situation again, so I could live and breathe. But he answered with that phrase which I understand as "a no" from a person who's not very good at saying no.
 

Trojina

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It's a complex situation and I don't currently have the brain space to sort of penetrate it fully but this




Wow, just wow. Thanks a lot! I would never come to this conclusion, though I thought of control issues, since me and the person in question broke because of my too dominant attitude. But we're still in touch, meeting sometime to spend time together with his 10 years old daughter (he's divorced), but having no sex. So I'm trying to decide what strategy is the best to save the relationship. It's difficult because I'm too active indeed, and he definitely needs a woman to be submissive. Which I'd like to implement as well, if only I could find a balance between being more yin and having to take the initiative...Maybe it's better to wait and see now. Anyway I'm now quite sure what is the problem.


….sounds really weird to me. Why would you want to meet with his daughter if you aren't really with him ? Why woul dhe need a woman to be submissive ? Soes he have the idea he would be harmed if she was simply who she was without the dubious tag of 'submissive' ? If he thinks women should be submissive what a pity he is rearing a 10 year old girl ! Now sexually, in the bedroom, if all that turns him on no problem for him or for you if you like being the submissive and he likes being dominant BUT to take that dynamic outside of the bedroom can only end in confusion and tears because of course it's not real.


Hexagram 1.4 Someone Dancing in the Abyss or in some translations, across the abyss.

For me dancing is a sensual, potentially romantic act and hex 1 as I understand is about creation - and where creation and dancing is involved, I see relationship potential.


It's an admirable free association exercise you've done with the cast although the dancing here isn't so much that kind of dancing but more like hovering, being uncertain unsure as to whether he can commit himself to the air.

However, the definition of abyss - a bottomless pit and/or a wide or profound difference between people; - relates to her love interest labelling them as too different.


Well dragons can fly so the abyss is of no consequence if he will simply trust his wings.

Then the relating hexagram 9 - small changes, gave me the impression that there would be a chance for the relationship to go further if a more gentler approach towards him would be taken based on his expressed wishes, which to me sound very reasonable.


Well I don't really think 9 as the relating hexagram here indicates to be more gentle. The main message is 1.4. 9 showing clouds but no rain yet indicates the dragon still hasn't committed, he's in transition

Giving the loved interest what they asked for in this case - appears to be a simple request for time out and space .. with no pressure to commit or to make relationship decisions- because someone else wants them to.


That's also called leaving someone hanging in thin air - which hang on is exactly what the dragon is doing.

People deserve the right to be themselves and to remember who they are when no one us around.


Not sure what that statement connects to


Men and women deserve to be at peace with themselves...and it sounds like others on this forum don't believe this guy needs the time out that he's asked to have from the poster.


Well I think that is because of the facts the original poster has presented. The reading isn't a strong enough factor to over ride all the actual issues and it isn't a certain reading, it's hovering....


I think it sounds like a really weird thing where he is sending very odd messages. In the original poster's shoes I think I would quit the visits with the daughter pronto because what's that all about if you aren't together.

I'm now going to read this thread properly now because I'm a bit confused
 

mmvvdd80

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It's interesting that 9th hexagram was given me a lot during my I Ching investiation of the case. Mostly I got it when asking "Why are we apart", "What's on his heart regarding me". I always get the feeling it's about my involuntary manner to rule people about, to force my will. I hate it in myself, yet here I am, having failed to rein myself in again.

As for the notion that this explanation (remove the ruling queen attitude, provide a pause) only applies to a living relationship, I would agree. But as long as we're in touch with him AND as long as I'm emotionally bound to this relashionship I cannot see it as a past. There's his daughter anyway.

I wonder if 9th hexagram could be his daughter.

Taking that into consideration, it sounds like he has a really valid and good reason to press pause on this relationship, and that he now wants time and space to be himself, on his own or with his daughter.

Here's this issue... You see, he's currently having problems bonding with his daughter. He's a "weekend father". She's a divorce victim, she hates her stepfather, she's very closed person. Sometimes he is hardly able to think of what to talk with her about. He's had this situation before, too, when we were together, and he was very glad I was helping him to spend time with her, since she's opened up to me from our first meeting and always looks forward to new occasions.
 

mmvvdd80

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….sounds really weird to me. Why would you want to meet with his daughter if you aren't really with him ? Why woul dhe need a woman to be submissive ? Soes he have the idea he would be harmed if she was simply who she was without the dubious tag of 'submissive' ? If he thinks women should be submissive what a pity he is rearing a 10 year old girl ! Now sexually, in the bedroom, if all that turns him on no problem for him or for you if you like being the submissive and he likes being dominant BUT to take that dynamic outside of the bedroom can only end in confusion and tears because of course it's not real.

Why, because I love her too. I'm childless myself and it was a pure joy to have her in my life. She's a wonderful person. We've had a lot of plans to implement in this year, so I felt awfully as if I somehow betrayed her. Then some firend of mine suggested I could keep the contact with her. Which delighted me.

As for his need for a woman to be submissive, it may be strange but it's quite understandable, with his past experience. I'd say it'd be a great development for me to learn how to overcome my ruling nature. It's not erotic for me, to be a ruler, and there's no beauty in forcing my will outside a bedroom as well.

I agree with you, Trojina, that line 3 also implies doubts and transition. And I can see no real signs that there's a cause to be hopefull.
 

Trojina

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My s/o's readiness to contribute to my contact with his daughter puzzles me. It's not easy for him to find a time slot in her schedule, to organize it all. So maybe he just want's my help in bonding with his daughter. Maybe it's just his politeness. It's very important for him to be a knight in his actions, so leaving me must damaged his self-esteem and maybe he's just trying to atone for his decision.So every time we meet I have this pull of details on how he acts and reacts regarding me. There's kindness, affection, shyness, blushing, etc. The problem is I'm afraid to be pushy, initiative, etc, this attitude might be the very reason he broke up with me. On the other hand I want him and his child in my life of course and am afraid to loose the chance by doing nothing instead of something. Same old


I think this is torture for you because you have been left guessing what the problem was and he hasn't been thoughtful enough to tell you but it seems to boil down to you now thinking somehow you aren't the right person for his requirements though he hasn't said so he just said he needed space.


Hmm I so want to post the Beautiful South song _I will


'you need a little time for your big head don't you don't you'


You asked what he needed from you and it seems to me he's wanting to leave his options open which would fit with line 4 somewhat.


So do you want to go on like this ? Up to you but still meeting his daughter is weird and I wonder if it's because the daughter likes you so it makes it easier for him when he has her to provide that stability of still seeing you BUT I mean if you aren't together you don't have any responsibility to his daughter. He has to take responsibility for his actions that he bought a woman into her life and then just unceremoniously dumped her for want of a better word hence potentially emotionally damaging his daughter.


He owes you a full explanation of why it ended he can't just go on using you to make himself feel better about the fact that he has actually taken you out of your daughter's life.


Now if he wants you to be submissive sexually that's up to you, that's clear, it's just role play, not real but if he wants you to pretend to some kind of dim wit outside the bedroom in real life then he needs to actually say so and explain why. You can't go on guessing.


I think people talking about his last wife being 'dominant' and 'controlling' is quite funny because she probably wasn't at all you can hardly go just by his description. She left him so he's more likely to be derogatory about her.



Anyway my view FWIW is it sounds very weird and you'd be better off with someone less weird and more honest but you know best. Meanwhile Beautiful South coming up
 

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