Hi. I'm currently in a post-breakup crisis and been asking different questions regarding this situation. I'd like to share how I see the 63 hexagram in regarding to these questions and maybe to get some feedback.

1) I've just made a decision to give up on trying to repair the relationship with my ex. When asking about what is the most urgent task I'm to work on now, or how to overcome the pain of defeat, a got readings hinting on getting rid of some obstacles, or solving some mistakes of my past. In order to clarify the nature of the obstacle I asked:

-- What is the most serious mistake of my past I have to work on now?

-- 63.3.6 -> 42 (Increase)

2) Since the beginning of the crisis (3 month ago) I got sick on my stomach (even spent some time in a hospital). Lost too much weight since that. And I really have to follow strict diet to maintain my digestive system in a working condition. Up to the moment when I gave up on the relationship it wasn't hard for me to obey the rules of the diet. But once I gave up I cannot stop myself from eating beyond measure. Next questions is:

-- Why do I overeat these days?

-- 63.2.5 -> 11 (Peace)

3) Me and my ex exchange our belongings from time to time. I mean, he returns me my possessions that were kept in his place, and vise versa. It was me who initiated this process, yet every time he brings me another piece of my stuff, it's very painful for me and I cannot take my mind off the each item many days on. So another question was:

-- What's the best way to look at this stuff-passing process?

-- 63.4 -> 49 (Molting, Revolution, reform)

I don't know if there's any sense in comparing answers to different questions, but since I got all of them during the same time period I suppose they could highlight different aspects of the same situation.

Only the #1 and #3 answers I think I can relate to, here are my conclusions:

1)
-- What is the most serious mistake of my past I have to work on now?
-- The sin of being unable to be content with what I've already got. "Enough is as good as a feast." Also of being self-confident and careless supposing that the success is a fixed condition and no further efforts are needed to keep the situation enjoyable. 42 is the reason success turns into chaos.

3)
-- What's the best way to look at this stuff-passing process?
-- I've been trying to shield myself from the clear understanding that me and my ex are over, thus sustaining an illusion that it's not over yet. Yi is suggesting to be cautious and cling to the facts which are not promising. In doing so I would prevent being injured by inevitable disillusioning. Or maybe Revolution is the healthy perspective to look at the process: old era is dying, shedding it's dysfunctional attributes.

As for the #2 question, I'm totally at a loss to understand it.

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P.s. I also have this doubt about general usefulness of "Why do I do that", "What's the reason of", "How to understand that" questions.
We can never verify our readings by the outcome events. Maybe I should ask about the consequences of decisions instead.

I wonder what's wrong with this post that is got zero answers. Maybe I should make different threads?

mmvvdd80 said:

I wonder what's wrong with this post that is got zero answers. Maybe I should make different threads?

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There's nothing wrong with the post but there are really only a handful of people who respond to the questions here at any one time and as it is not effortless and takes quite some time and thought, more with some threads than with others, then, well people can only do so much in one day so they are going to look at a thread and think 'can I deal with that, do I have the time, energy and understanding it would take ?'.


I have already posted some quite long answers today so I don't want to do more, I'm tired, so it depends on who is around who has got the time and energy more than it being anything to do with your post. It looks like your questions are going to take quite a lot of thinking about, it' s not just one simple query so it will depend on one of about 6 or 7 'regulars' by which I mean people who currently regularly respond on having the time and mental energy to respond.


Of course a non regular responder might turn up. But anyway it's not a problem with the post I don't think although one question at a time looks far more manageable than several in one sitting.

Also you already have quite an intense thread going (the 'what does he want' thread) where you've posted more questions I think and the questions here relate to that situation so if someone is answering you on that thread they might be less likely to come over here and answer questions on other aspects of that same situation because it would be quite overwhelming to try to think about all these readings as part of different parts of the same situation.

Oh and it also can be that people don't see your thread if it sinks beneath other threads.

For example I didn't see your Open Space thread which I have now responded to on the forum paragraph issues etc

Hello mmvvdd80!

mmvvdd80 said:

I wonder what's wrong with this post that is got zero answers. Maybe I should make different threads?

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I hadn't seen your post despite checking the forum several times a day. Maybe there has been some technical issue preventing it from being visible until you replied. Some posts receive no replies BTW. It happens. Your case seems different however.
I read your other thread and didn't know how to interpret the lines. This one sounds more clear to me.
Hex 63, "After Completion", shows a situation that is over and it makes sense since you say:

mmvvdd80 said:

I'm currently in a post-breakup crisis

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mmvvdd80 said:

I've just made a decision to give up on trying to repair the relationship with my ex.

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No surprise you repeatedly received 63: the relationship is over for you. How intelligent the I Ching is!

mmvvdd80 said:

-- What is the most serious mistake of my past I have to work on now?

-- 63.3.6 -> 42 (Increase)

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Line 3:"The emperor Kao Tsung chastised the barbarian country and conquered it in three years. The inferior man should no longer be employed." "Conquer your demons -- the integration of unbalanced forces is a long and exhausting process."
Clear message, no? You exhausted your forces because of investing too much in something wrong (your guy? your relationship? your illusion of the relationship?) Interestingly, the line also refers to what you mentioned in your next question which isn't irrelevant to this one anyway: your stomach problems because of "unbalanced forces"- the crisis. You have to purge yourself of these negative effects to regain your equilibrium. The wrong investment is a serious mistake and:
Line 6: "His head gets wet. Danger." "You have passed the point of no return in the current cycle of growth" "Emotions prevent clear thinking."
To be obscured by emotions and not seeing the relationship becoming destructive is the other serious mistake.
Hex "42"- Increase- may indicate being increasingly damaged because of mistakes; but also that your well-being will increase from now on as you decide to work on them.

mmvvdd80 said:

-- Why do I overeat these days?

-- 63.2.5 -> 11

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You overeat to "appease" yourself (Hex 11)...
Line 2: "A woman loses her protection. Do not pursue; you will get it in seven days."
Because of losing what you relied on. After the turmoil is over, you seem to stop overeating: "An image of temporary vulnerability: take no action until the situation matures."
Line 5: "The neighbor in the east who slaughters an ox does not attain as much real happiness as the neighbor in the west with his small offering." "The situation requires a modest condescension of power or display of allegiance, not a grandiose expression of martyrdom."
You overeat because of putting too much of yourself in the relationship, which resulted in losing your sense of self. Don't play the role of martyr anymore: your feelings have been sincere and you've reached the personal growth meant to come with love. That's enough. You should focus on yourself now to overcome your problem. Reference to your other question again: try to gain the equilibrium- and don't pass your limits.

mmvvdd80 said:

-- What's the best way to look at this stuff-passing process?

-- 63.4 -> 49

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Line 4: "Amidst the fine silk are ragged garments -- be cautious throughout the livelong day!" "Something valuable is threatened -- extreme care is called for." Take care of yourself. Don't give in. Your situation will "radically change" (Hex 49)- the heartbreak being over, everything will be fine again.

Good Luck!

Dear Trojina and marybluesky, thank you for your time and advice. I never meant to complain that I'm not getting enough attention, I really do have plenty, thanks to the kindness of this community's members. Just wanted to check if maybe I wronged some local ethiquette or customs.

I do understand it takes time and effort to dig into another's life situation, and it wasn't very considerate of me to shower your with a dozen of readings. I've learned that it's more productive to limit the number of questions and to reflect upon answers for a while.

marybluesky, thanks for your very specific and thorough demonstration of ways to analyse a reading.

Not only the meaning of my readings is much more clearer to me but also I've got a lesson of how to connect hexagrams, lines and different readings into one intergrated landscape. My mistate was I really wasn't ready to accept all answers. E.g. I wanted my ex relationships to go on so I couldn't bear that the hexagrams hinted it's over. No wonder I was unable to link their messages with my circumstances.

Now that some threshold is passed I am free to study and practice in a quite manner.

marybluesky said:

Line 3:"The emperor Kao Tsung chastised the barbarian country and conquered it in three years. The inferior man should no longer be employed." "Conquer your demons

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For what it is worth,
Kao Tsung wasn't conquering his own demons. He was conquering other people(s) (demons).
This is an important distinction to recognize about the line.

In 35.6 one may say they are conquering or chastising 'their home town', but not in 63.3

Surely any line can be taken as applying internally or externally. I can't see why in 63.3 the demons would need to be external because of the story. You can apply the story to the inner landscape also.

mmvvdd80 said:

Not only the meaning of my readings is much more clearer to me but also I've got a lesson of how to connect hexagrams, lines and different readings into one intergrated landscape.

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Bravo!

Moss Elk said:

For what it is worth,
Kao Tsung wasn't conquering his own demons. He was conquering other people(s) (demons).
This is an important distinction to recognize about the line.
In 35.6 one may say they are conquering or chastising 'their home town', but not in 63.3

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I cited the "Conquer your demons ..." line from James DeKorne website. It has a psychological approach: here the "internal" demons refer to the unbalanced forces not being (yet) integrated in the psyche; so considered outsiders. In the OP's case, the chaos is caused by the external pressure to a large extent, still affects the internal life.

DeKorne doesn't understand this line.

DeKorne is a person one may refer to in American lingo, as a "Head".
That is someone who uses a lot of hard drugs.
As in take these pills to 'feed' your 'head'.
Like it is used in the song White Rabbit by Jefferson Airplaine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit_(song)
The author Philip K Dick also refered to himself that way. (he was a paranoid schizophrenic and amphetamine addict who was institutionalized more than once.)

Dekorne's work is very sloppy and dizzy, and he tries to meld things from many schools of thought (not yi related) and he really really really often does not understand the lines.
Dazed and confused he will leave the confused people seeking clarity.

All of that may be true but nonetheless taking an answer as to do with one's internal landscape is not unique to James de Korne - we've all been doing it for decades so I can't see how you can categorically say an answer will always manifest externally as you say 63.3 will. I think line 3 can be about tackling very long term issues which might be psychological or might not be.

He does say 'in psychological terms' so he isn't claiming it's always psychological

From his site

Editor: In psychological terms, the Demon region is the unconscious psyche, and no new synthesis can take place therein until all of its autonomous complexes have been pacified and integrated. The will of the ego is the last line of defense against their constant pressure. Only one who has undertaken the Work can truly appreciate how exhausting it is -- a fact made more ominous by the realization that one can win most of the battles and still lose the war. "Inferior men should not be employed" means that it is a task not to be lightly undertaken by anyone.

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I guess people use his site because he has all the translations there - but no forum. So people go there and get his stuff and then come here.

Trojina said:

taking an answer as to do with one's internal landscape is not unique to James de Korne - we've all been doing it for decades so I can't see how you can categorically say an answer will always manifest externally as you say 63.3 will.

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I did not exactly say that.
I meant it is more likely to represent external forces because of underlying pattern in the line (The Duke Subjugated another outiside tribe)
So, the pattern shows someone dealing with something external, so difficult that they need external help and end up exhausted.

Trojina said:

I think line 3 can be about tackling very long term issues which might be psychological or might not be.

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Possibly, in some situations, of course.

My point is to evaluate your sources,
and the more time I read Dekorne's commentary,
the more I know that he is very confused.

I am counseling enthusiasm to be curbed a bit.
Say you are with your friend,
and he stops and starts staring at the sky with eyes wide.
Perhaps he looks entaptured by some invisible (to you) vision and you almost believe it, he is having a spiritual experience!
No.
Because then you remembered that he smoked a joint back in his car and you say, 'wake up dude! you're baked'

crossed posts - think people go there for the translations because he has all the translations there, well a good few of them.

Trojina said:

crossed posts - think people go there for the translations because he has all the translations there, well a good few of them.

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That's why I used to go there,
until I starting reading his commentary.

Moss Elk said:

DeKorne is a person one may refer to in American lingo, as a "Head".
That is someone who uses a lot of hard drugs.
As in take these pills to 'feed' your 'head'.

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For me, the point of visiting DeKorne website is the Encyclopedia type of pages he has made where you can find the words of several translators & commentators. It's very helpful to me. And I relate to some of them more than others. As for the words of DeKorne himself, I sometimes use them.
Then you have to compare what you read to the question and situation, and decide how to explain it. That said, if I don't understand how the translation/comment of a famous person could apply here, I don't use it.

Trojina said:

He does say 'in psychological terms' so he isn't claiming it's always psychological

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But, without fail. he always goes somewhere.... fluffy.. with it.
I haven't found any comments of his that are as mundane as an answer can certainly be.

But, without fail. he always goes somewhere.... fluffy.. with it.

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So he is indeed the white bunny of the Yi world but he cannot be as bad as Carol Anthony who makes every single answer mean that one must crush one's ego and subdue one's inferiors - even if one has asked something as mild as 'what about this garage ?' still even those commentaries apply sometimes


I never go to his site because this site has some evil addictive kind of quality whereby you can't easily get out, as was once said like the 'Hotel California'. "You can check out any time you like but you can never leave".

I haven't found any comments of his that are as mundane as an answer can certainly be.

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I can imagine.

Oh, why do I personally think it is more likely to refer to something external?
Because of an experience I had.

I have a friend from my youth,
not too much in contact with these days.
I noticed that there was some unusual tension between us sometimes that I didn't feel when not around him, likely sudden misunderstandings or fits of tension. One day after he left from visiting, I was wondering about the weirdness. Was it something I was doing, or was it him?
Was it within him or within me?
Yi said 63.3

It was him.
He is bipolar and on lithium (he told me later),
and prone to sudden brief but unpleasant expressions of anger.
Tension always came from him.
(external to me)

Crossed posts

But whilst your own experience was of something external that won't mean the line always manifests that way as you know.

Sure.

Trojina said:

So he is indeed the white bunny of the Yi world but he cannot be as bad as Carol Anthony who makes every single answer mean that one must crush one's ego and subdue one's inferiors - even if one has asked something as mild as 'what about this garage ?' still even those commentaries apply sometimes

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Oh yes he is as bad as Carol Anthony, in fact he puts her of such importance that he usually quotes her right after the Name of the Hex. before the Image and Judgement.

It's funny about Anthony,
Occasionally she gets stuff right,
but is often inclined to be...
dizzy.

So, now the chain of dizzy has been established. :bows:

What do you think of how lines are commented on http://iching123.com?

As for 63.3, there is this other aspect in the text of like which I don't get at all:
"The villain should not be employed". It's after the war is over and tha land of demons is conquered. It's mentioned as being about a colonial policy on some resources... It sounds like the overall conclusion, a lesson one has to learn after an exausting war with demons (internal or external).

mmvvdd80 said:

What do you think of how lines are commented on http://iching123.com?

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I greatly admire Tuck Chang's work. He has gone into a lot of detail to describe a large number of traditional I Ching aspects. His work on the positioning and inter-relations between the lines is superb and one of a kind.

mmvvdd80 said:

As for 63.3, there is this other aspect in the text of like which I don't get at all: "The villain should not be employed". It's after the war is over and tha land of demons is conquered. It's mentioned as being about a colonial policy on some resources... It sounds like the overall conclusion, a lesson one has to learn after an exausting war with demons (internal or external).

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When you're fighting a long difficult war, obviously a lot of human resources are needed. Some people are employed during the war, as they have some usefulness in the overall strategy. However, when the war is over, those people are not worthy enough to be employed full-time or permanently. So, in more mundane terms, when we have fought a lot to achieve something, we should not stick around with people of lower worth (even if they gave a small contribution in the past), because they will undermine what we have accomplished.

Thinking about your particular cast,
What is the most serious mistake of my past I have to work on now?
63.3.6 > 42

63.3 shows you went through a long struggle, many difficulties which lasted for years. Your mistake was that after that long battle you 'hired' someone inferior. This probably refers to your ex partner, since your questions have to do with your break-up. You most probably saw the warning signs that he wasn't such a great guy, but disregarded them, because you were too tired fighting in general.

63.6 shows that because of the mistake of employing an inferior, the situation was too much for you to handle in the end. 42 is benefit, so think about it. Who benefitted the most from this relationship? Was it worth it, for you, to employ an inferior and end up feeling like drowning? Was it worth ending up in hospital because of it? Of course only you can answer that question, but I would say that if we asked a random person in the street "would you like a love story which would end up with you in hospital?", chances are they would say no. As a future lesson, if you go back to this guy (or to any other inferior guy), you now know the result: drowning and benefit (obviously not your benefit).

63.6 shows that because of the mistake of employing an inferior, the situation was too much for you to handle in the end. 42 is benefit, so think about it. Who benefitted the most from this relationship? Was it worth it, for you, to employ an inferior and end up feeling like drowning? Was it worth ending up in hospital because of it? Of course only you can answer that question, but I would say that if we asked a random person in the street "would you like a love story which would end up with you in hospital?", chances are they would say no. As a future lesson, if you go back to this guy (or to any other inferior guy), you now know the result: drowning and benefit (obviously not your benefit).

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Well, I'd say me getting to a hospital as a result of a heartbreak is my responsibility, not his. I could commit a suicide, it wouldn't make him an utter villain whose actions caused a girl's death


All in all I'm still at war and it doesn't feel as the situation is over. (By the way, I wonder if 63 hexagram actually should mean not only an ending but also a happy ending, a harmonious one. I mean, if one is heartbroken and sick, can such a state be discribed by 63 hex? )

Overeating is a recurring condition as well as a complete loss of hunger for a several days, so 63.2.5. regarding comfort eating seems to be true prediction except for an advise to do nothing since it'll stop by it's own in a while (7 days). For now only with a great will effort I'm able to manage my eating schedule: eating only what is planned, but still some days I cannot digest anything and have to skip eating altogether. It's a common knowledge that Peace (11) cannot be created via eating.

As for the relationship itself, of me being still unable to quit all the communication with my ex, let's say some period is over (when I tried taking some insistent actions to provide myself with some relationship-related "food", e.g. organizing meetings with him), now I only follow the natural flow of events. Have to ask for another advice about my recent readings, but that'll be in a new thread.

Thanks you all for your honest (if a bit bitter) opinions.

mmvvdd80 said:

Well, I'd say me getting to a hospital as a result of a heartbreak is my responsibility, not his. I could commit a suicide, it wouldn't make him an utter villain whose actions caused a girl's death

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Sure, I agree. I said "ending up in hospital because of it", where "it" refered to the relationship, not the man. Good luck with it all.