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2nd Hex, Related or Future- post examples

moss elk

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On this thread:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?27166-Shall-I-have-kids-Hex-44-2-3-5-gt-35&p=262703#post262703

Ana asked, " so there is really no hard fixed answer on it?"

There are people who hold two different things in their minds. (some hold what they read from an author, some noticed things themselves.) Not many seem willing to discuss to discern the truth of the matter.

What are the possibilities?
A-One idea is wrong, one is correct.
B-Both are partially correct. and partially incorrect.
B-(subset) One is closer to the truth than the other.
C-People with brains that are wired very differently may gravitate to A or B respectively.
D-(as Ana offered up) It is an oscillating thing, therefore Yi is unintelligable.
I think A or B(subset) are most likely.

I am willing to discuss this with anyone willing. and to give examples consisting of... oh every reading I've ever done and seen that supports 'A'. (maybe B subset)


Ok, I asked Yi:
Is the 2nd hex (A) Related or (B) Future?
Screenshot_20190112-163303.jpg

6.2.5 (35)
Interesting answer.

Oh, looky!
And contradictory lines too.
(Don't argue about this + good to argue about this)

I think the 35 is the Advancement of our collective knowledge.

Anyone care to take a shot at the reading?

Let's solve this, if it is solvable.
Seriously.
 

AnnaP1

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I have a theory on this, as it is a ''living'' system with so many variables, maybe sometimes we believe or think it's one answer (2nd Hex is Related) and so it is, it fits our castings pretty well and so on and then somehow it ''switches'' and we start to believe it depicts the future and all the results seem to confirm this and then again, after 2-3 years (or so) it ''switches'' again, like the Oracle and its understanding remains constant in our minds and then it changes, and thus it continues a dialogue with us. That is a fully magical interpretation but there's nothing ordinary about the I Ching!
 
D

diamanda

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Moss Elk, as you know I take the 2nd hex as the future, due to my experience with the oracle.
Saying that, there might be a rule none of us has sussed out so far.
And saying that too, divination can have 'rules', but it also largely depends on the diviner.

I truly don't believe this is 'solvable'!
 

Trojina

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On this thread:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?27166-Shall-I-have-kids-Hex-44-2-3-5-gt-35&p=262703#post262703

Ana asked, " so there is really no hard fixed answer on it?"

There are people who hold two different things in their minds. (some hold what they read from an author, some noticed things themselves.) Not many seem willing to discuss to discern the truth of the matter.

What are the possibilities?
A-One idea is wrong, one is correct.
B-Both are partially correct. and partially incorrect.
B-(subset) One is closer to the truth than the other.
C-People with brains that are wired very differently may gravitate to A or B respectively.
D-(as Ana offered up) It is an oscillating thing, therefore Yi is unintelligable.
I think A or B(subset) are most likely.

I am willing to discuss this with anyone willing. and to give examples consisting of... oh every reading I've ever done and seen that supports 'A'. (maybe B subset)


Ok, I asked Yi:
Is the 2nd hex (A) Related or (B) Future?
View attachment 2006

6.2.5 (35)
Interesting answer.

Oh, looky!
And contradictory lines too.
(Don't argue about this + good to argue about this)

I think the 35 is the Advancement of our collective knowledge.

Anyone care to take a shot at the reading?

Let's solve this, if it is solvable.
Seriously.


I don't think it's a matter of solving, how could it be ? It's down to differences.

But you have missed the most important factor and that is the differences in what people believe the I Ching is and what it is for. Those who see it mainly in terms of concrete prediction are possibly more likely to gravitate towards the relating as the future because that's what they use it for, to find out the future. They want to know what is going to happen.

Those who see the relating hexagram in a more diffuse way are perhaps more interested in a conversation with the oracle, more interested in the answer itself, what it reveals than predicting certain outcomes.

Difference can also simply be down to habit and tradition of doing it a certain way.


At the moment I allow the relating hexagram to be anything at all according to how the answer strikes me in the moment. It's obviously always partnering the primary hexagram, a kind of dance. It somehow feels 'bigger' than the primary possibly because I associate hexagram 2 qualities with the relating, it's the earth to the primary/creative. It can be the backdrop that 'holds' the answer but can also be the scenery that includes a vision of the future. I keep it loose.


I don't think predictions should be chased I think one should just let them arrive when they do. Also I don't really ever care when X Y or Z will happen I'm more interested in the conversation - I mean one is talking to an oracle that's the amazing thing.
 

hilary

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Is it relating or future? 6 to 35.

(First, I need to insert the obligatory complaint about the question. Really, Moss Elk, an 'either/or'??)

Assuming the reading describes the second hexagram - it's 6's 35, so it's how Arguing contains the possibility of Advancing. (Or, if anyone prefers, how Arguing can lead to Advancing...) The second hexagram holds the reading's tension between you and how-it-is, and shows how this tension opens up opportunities for change.
 

rosada

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Think of hex one as being a house and hex two as a fence surrounding the house. The fence contains the house just as the second hexagram describes the environment or context of the question and it also describes the future, just as one leaving the house, moving beyond hex one, will eventually come to the fence, the future, hex two. Thus if one asks, “How can I recover from my recent break up?” And receives 23.1.5.6 - 3 the second hex can be read both as context and something in the future you will go through. Thus 23,1,5.6 can be read both as “When you are in a situation where you are 3. Having difficulty beginning the new it is good to start by 23. Getting rid of the old.” And also as “When you have 23. Been forced to leave the old, it will be 3. Difficult at first.”
 

moss elk

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(First, I need to insert the obligatory complaint about the question. Really, Moss Elk, an 'either/or'??)

Yes, I do it all the time with success.
(real example: is it better for me to attend gathering x or to stay away?
7.2 at the heart of the militia....)

Is anyone trying to say that this is Yanny/Laurel thing?
 
H

hmesker

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As far as I know this idea that hexagram A ends in hexagram B, as if it is some sort of final outcome or prediction, was mainly promoted by Zhu Xi (1130-1200) and I have not found any sources from before his time that say this is how changing lines and hexagrams should be read. Two examples from the Zuozhuan seem to tell another way of dealing with changing lines: https://youtu.be/ACflpQGyhG8?t=310 .
 

moss elk

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So, Zhu Xi is to blame for two bad ideas!
(1-that the related hex means future, and 2-to pick certain lines and ignore others)

Thanks again!
 

steve

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Hi all

My experience it can either relate to the situation now, the possible surrounding circumstances or yes the future.

I have notes so I will see if I have some good examples,

It really depends on the question and the situation, when i do weekly readings for work I guess I am looking for a glimpse of the future. I think the oracle is saying at times if you take this path, this is the possible outcome.

Other times the relating hexagram simply tells you what you already know. I used to think well duh!!. Which is I guess not very respectful to an ancient oracle. In hindsight when I have thought about it, it has been something that needs to be addressed before you can move on down the path.

Other instances when it is the surrounding circumstances, it can be things that are hidden or something the oracle is trying to make me aware of that I am oblivious too.

Steve
 
F

Freedda

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I had a bit of a hard time finding or following the thread of this thread, in part because when you referred to '2nd' hexagram, at first I thought you meant Gua 2 - and I went looking for where it was even mentioned here!

I also found that the way the question is laid out is a bit confusing in a number of ways:

First you start out with an A-to-D list of how we might see the answer - which is limiting and excludes other possibilities.

Second, your A, related versus B, future question seems even more limiting to what the possiblities of the Prime-Resulting (or Related) hexagram relationship might be. It's feels a bit like asking: Do these two people love each other or hate each other? ... which excludes a whole range of ways in which these people might interact.

But if right off if I had to pick from your A-to-D list, I'd say it is really E - 'all or none of the above' AND 'F - it depends' (on the relationship(s)/interactions between the question, the hexgrams, the lines, the trigrams, etc.)

Third, the A - 'related' answer option seems pretty vague, in that 'related' could be supportive, akin to, interactive, advisory, leading, or (as I often look at it) it could describe 'the situation and an approach towards the situation,' and a host of other possible ways of being related.

And finally, I think B, Future implies a type of relationship - between present and future, or even past, present and future - so to have the answer be A, doesn't really get us anywhere (because it already contains B!)

Having said all that, as to your cast:

6.2.5 > 35, we have (as one possibility) "Resolving Conflict's Slowly Advancing in Daylight"

With 6.2, 'there really is no answer here, so for your safety and survival, humble yourself and become invisible' ...

and ... 6.5 ... 'in so doing, you may then find an answer.'

And 35 - since the answer is still 'out there' - and because 35 could still be a future, or an outcome, or an appropriate attitude, or something somehow related to 6 ... perhaps here is a suggestion to be more expansive in our thinking, in our approach, to perhaps expand beyond an either/or question and/or answer.

So I'm going to go with E and F!


Best, David.
 

steve

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I was looking through my notes and found I believe a reading that predicted the future, that was if I followed the advice.

It was a simple daily reading asking about what I need to before going to work.

14.2.4.5.6>63

In general I was being told I have resources, stick to the plan, I was doing some sales that day and I kind of took this as just explain the product and offer solutions. Dont't force anything. Line 6 I thought was great when I saw it but turned out to be positive and did gain , in general the line did feel good when the day was over if you follow me.

63 just felt satisfying like I had made progress and I was happy for that.

So in a way the oracle did predict the future if I followed the advice of lines 2,4 and 5

Steve
 

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