Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Hi, David:... First, I've never been all that keen on using Yin and Yang to describe Heaven and Earth. In part because the Yi predates the concept of yin and yang by at least a few centuries, and also because it seems to create some divisions that I don't think really exist.
...
And from Heaven: to be "naturally energetic ..." and to be creative throughout the day (at night ... a different matter!); and to "dance across the deep with no regrets." ...
So,On 1.3 I have an alternative almost literal traduction:君子終日乾乾jun1 zi3 zhong1 ri4 qian2 qian2 ... NOBLE SON ALL DAY LONG VROOM-VROOOM!!!
Of course the alternatives are uncountable for reduplications use to be taken as sound words, onomatopoeias, often with little relation with the stand-alone one-syllabe word and often pointing to another words with similar, not identical, sound ... Say qian-qian can be borrowed for another reduplication with the same phonetics, no matters the tone, or with similar sound like jian-jian, ... han-han, and so on.
(2) The primal metaphor in the Changes is, I believe, of sexual nature, the sexual reproductive mode.
I am a bit confused by some of this, so I welcome your clarifications:... so even though there's probably no need to use either yin or yang to describe the first two hexagrams, i'd find it weird to run away from the fact that they're fully built out of either 0's or 1's (which is pretty much the same concept as yin and yang)… but i'm afraid this understanding is actually very simplistic and could easily make one forget about their actual dynamic relation - leading to kind of black and white view and such mental shortcuts that you write about here yet ascribe to others
Thanks Charly, a few thoughts:
So,
- I'm curious, is this your translation (or traduction, which I think means "an act of defaming" and I don't see how that fits here)? and if not yours, whose?
Reduplications as onomatopoeias are common in chinese, common in the Changes as in the Book of Poetry. Read the first song (Mao nº 1)As to seeing repeated words - i.e. qian2 qian2, etc. as onomatopoeias, I'm a bit confused:
- Are you saying this is your understanding - based on what others have learned - of how repeated words were used in ancient Chinese? Or is this your own idea?
- And are you saying that these repeated words are fluid and can be used interchangeably (e.g. 'often with little relation'), so qian2 qian2, (creating, creating) ...
(I am not a linguist or sinologists, but I have read that repeated words often indicate a degree of intensity, or that something is more long lasting, than if it happens only once).
關雎:
關關雎鳩、在河之洲。
窈窕淑女、君子好逑。
Guan Ju:
Guan-guan go the ospreys, On the islet in the river.
The modest, retiring, virtuous, young lady: For our prince a good mate she.
Source: Chinese Text Project, Shi Jin and Legge translation.
關關 [guan1guan1], n., (AC) imitation of the sound made by birds.
Source: Lin Yutang Online Dictionary
And ... as to "the primal metaphor in the Changes is ... of sexual nature ...", I do not agree. First, sex and sexual relations are found and used in the Yi, but not pervasively, and often as metaphors for other aspects of human interaction. And second, I'm not sure if there is a 'primal metaphor' - or what that even means? - for the Yi; and if there is one, I don't know it.
Regards, David.
A follow-up question: do you think that there may be a range of possibilities/options for how doubled words (i.e. reduplications) are treated? For example, that they could be seen as onomatopoeias (as you mentioned), or as an emphasis, or as an indication of a duration of time (as I’ve read about)? Or are the options more limited?There are many possibilities with different nuances of meaning, some converging, some even contradictory. Playing with words not necessarily injures the reputation of anybody. If somebody feels hurt, I apologize! Reduplications as onomatopoeias are common in Chinese, common in the Changes as in the Book of Poetry ....
Hi, David:Thanks for the response Charly. You clearly have explored this far more than I have. A follow-up question: do you think that there may be a range of possibilities/options for how doubled words (i.e. reduplications) are treated? For example, that they could be seen as onomatopoeias (as you mentioned), or as an emphasis, or as an indication of a duration of time (as I’ve read about)? Or are the options more limited?
Best, David.
Maybe I misunderstood something in your post, don't worry, I apologizeAlso, I don’t know of anyone’s ‘injured reputation’, and I’m not sure how you got that from my post? (or if you were just having a bit of fun.)
The problem with the names of hexagram 1 & 2 is that they only occur in the Yijing and nowhere else. If they are used in other texts they refer to the names of these hexagrams. We don't have any reliable sources or context to know what 乾 and 坤 really mean, other than later commentaries and dictionaries that uses these commentaries as a source.
About hexagram 1 see http://yjcn.nl/serendipity/archives/47-The-banner-of-qian.html .
You asked, so ... yes, you are wrong.... The Banner of Qian is a must. And full of sexual imagery. I believe, please, tell me if I'm wrong.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).