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Hex 4 .4.6 to 40 What is behind her behaviour?

curious1

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I have a daughter of 19 who was attacked in broad daylight and beaten by a boy when she was 13. She went through major depression and ptsd. She refused to go out, hated school and regularly woke up crying and refused to go. In desperation I agreed to let her do home schooling and she passed grade 11 very well in 2017. She used to love learning bUt now regularly complains that her brain is not plugging in and she feels anxious so school is still unfinished.

She gained an enormous amount of weight. She is 19 now. Totally isolated at home. I cannot get her out of my house to go work or to socialise. She complains constantly of fatigue. She tells me she does not care if she lives or dies and has no interest in Her appearance.

I cannot find out what is up with her. Sometimes I feel there is a willfullness to persist with this. so I asked the question What is behind Natalie’s behaviour. I got hex 4 line 4.6 to 40.

I am drawing a total blank on how to interpret this. Help with this will be appreciated.
 
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diamanda

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What is behind Natalie’s behaviour? 4.4.6 > 40

Curious it's hard for me to write this, because it's about your daughter. I have direct experience with this cast and unfortunately I know exactly what it means, and it's not pretty. 4 means ignorance and immaturity, with further connotations of something parasitic and deceptive (the character 蒙 means plant that covers, parasitic plant, cover, deceive, cheat).

4.4 This describes a person who is nasty beyond repair. This person is immature and infantile in their behaviour, with tantrums, hurtful behaviour out of senseless spite, no consideration for anybody other than themselves. They are incapable of love and incapable of logical decision making, they cannot understand consequences, and they act in a manipulative self-serving purpose, while hurting their own self and also those around them. They also have no accountability, i.e. they never accept blame for their destructive behaviour, instead they will blame anything and anyone except themselves.

Wilhelm translates this line as entangled folly. The character for entangled is the same as the character for 47, which shows someone trapped or imprisoned inside something. When I had to deal with people described by this line (people who were really close to me by the way, even a very close family member), they were simply awful to me (both overtly and covertly aggressive), without any logic or reason visible. They purposefully hurt me time and time again, even if it was very clear that I loved them and I was on their side. The destruction of their behaviour also harmed them, greatly, however they seemed to enjoy attacking so much that they didn't care about any of the consequences, even against their own self. I wonder if the 'parasitic plant that covers' is a metaphor for brain neurons going bad.

4.6 This type of person does not respond to punishment. No matter what you do in order to show them the consequences of their actions, it will not work. The only one thing you can do is defend and protect yourself, because this individual is dangerous.

40 Relief. I don't know what relief might mean in your case, but in my case(s) the only way to find relief was to sever ties with the insanely nasty person. I hope you manage to find a different solution.

What was her character like before that dreadful incident?
 

Trojina

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I have direct experience with this cast and unfortunately I know exactly what it means, and it's not pretty

Just because we have had the same cast on another matter it does not mean we know 'exactly what it means' for everyone for all time.

Also I can't make out if you are saying her daughter is nasty.

4.4 doesn't always describe a nasty person. It may have for you with your question but that doesn't mean that is what is means and that's all. I have never known 4.4 describe a nasty person.
 

Trojina

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I have a daughter of 19 who was attacked in broad daylight and beaten by a boy when she was 13. She went through major depression and ptsd. She refused to go out, hated school and regularly woke up crying and refused to go. In desperation I agreed to let her do home schooling and she passed grade 11 very well in 2017. She used to love learning bUt now regularly complains that her brain is not plugging in and she feels anxious so school is still unfinished.

She gained an enormous amount of weight. She is 19 now. Totally isolated at home. I cannot get her out of my house to go work or to socialise. She complains constantly of fatigue. She tells me she does not care if she lives or dies and has no interest in Her appearance.

I cannot find out what is up with her. Sometimes I feel there is a willfullness to persist with this. so I asked the question What is behind Natalie’s behaviour. I got hex 4 line 4.6 to 40.

I am drawing a total blank on how to interpret this. Help with this will be appreciated.

So hard when asking about someone else's reason for behaviour when actually what you need to know is what you should do about it.

I wouldn't like to speculate but it sounds clear that this incident, no idea how severe this was, of this attack, triggered ptsd and depression for her. Awful thing to happen and it has affected her severely by the sound of it.


I wrote this in wikiwing re 4.4, since one is quite tied up in not knowing in line 4


. I don't think, when one has tied oneself up in a knot of not knowing it is an easy matter to get free, to get to the knowing. If your mind has deceived itself can it then undeceive itself without some outside help ? Maybe trying to undo this knot just by yourself would be like trying to view the back of your own head without two mirrors or someone else's eyes. Sometimes when this line is cast maybe instead of seeking an outer gauge of reality one just gets stuck in a self referential loop of ignorance, trying to swivel one's own eyes about to see one's ears . Maybe the advice here is sometimes just to realise that is what you are doing !


Is this answer directly about her or about you ? I don't know. If the answer is addressed to you then whatever ails her now you aren't in a position to see it and need some outside help. I'm guessing you have got psychological help/counselling for her over the years ? Perhaps it is time to seek more. In general, 4, Not Knowing, shows we don't know, we aren't able to understand this. So if we just aren't able to understand at this point the lines give counsel on how we might deal with that. I think line 4 says not to get even more embroiled in your not knowing by compounding it with wrong theories or solutions or getting lost in a maze of one's own not even wanting to know. Line 6 of course advises one not to be harsh with oneself in not knowing, or others come to that.

I think the 40 sows a strong urge to get free of this whole thing one way or the other. It's as if the time has come where you feel solutions are needed now, but the 4 and the lines don't show that to be possible just yet.

I do think you need to choose a direction (40) even though you have no idea where you are and I imagine this is going to involve getting further outside help ?


But what if this answer does simply describe what is going on with her ? Well I'd think she isn't in a position to even understand herself why she feels the way she does. 40 can be giving up sometimes or so I have heard, not bothering, letting things go in the more negative sense. In the more positive sense she may desperately want release but just not know how to do it.


Whether this is about you or her patience is called for. I'd say also referral to an outside agency is essential here. We can't see the back of our own heads and if injured there someone else has to tend to it. You being so close to your daughter means maybe you just can't see certain things however well intentioned you are and she herself cannot see either. So more outside help is needed now isn't it or have you exhausted all sources of outside help already ?
 
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diamanda

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Just because we have had the same cast on another matter it does not mean we know 'exactly what it means' for everyone for all time.
'For everyone for all time' is quite a stretch of what I actually wrote. I described exactly what this cast meant for me, more than once, in similar situations with highly problematic people who, although unrelated between them, all displayed the characteristics I described. I certainly hope that it plays out differently for Curious's daughter.
 

Liselle

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I think the 40 sows a strong urge to get free of this whole thing one way or the other. It's as if the time has come where you feel solutions are needed now, but the 4 and the lines don't show that to be possible just yet.

Reading Karcher (for really the first time, so keep that in mind), this idea sticks out. He calls hexagram 4 "Enveloping" and translates the lines this way:

4.4: "Enveloping Confined. Distress."
4.6: "Attacking what Envelops you. Not advantageous to act like an outlaw. Advantageous to resist being an outlaw. Harvesting.

What is behind your daughter's behavior? She realizes something is enveloping her, she knows things are wrong - which could equally include both illness and that her life has gone off the rails - but she has no idea how to fix any of it. So she lashes out in various ways that don't help.

Am wondering what a good follow-up question might be, if you'd even want to ask one. Um..."How can I help her?" "What will help her?" "How best to proceed?"
 

Trojina

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What is behind your daughter's behavior? She realizes something is enveloping her, she knows things are wrong - which could equally include both illness and that her life has gone off the rails - but she has no idea how to fix any of it. So she lashes out in various ways that don't help.

Karcher means enveloping as in a protective covering, not knowing as a protective caul, he doesn't mean the feeling of something bad enveloping a person.

Am wondering what a good follow-up question might be, if you'd even want to ask one. Um..."How can I help her?" "What will help her?" "How best to proceed?"


Well I never see the use in asking a bunch of internet strangers to guess at what is going on in someone else's mind, especially if that someone else is right there and could answer with some authority on the matter. However it is important that people ask the questions they feel they want to ask. Never seems to work so well to suggest better questions.

But it does seem more important to know what the querent's best position to this is and that could very likely to give some clue to the daughter's distress although we already know to some degree why the poor girl is in this state, it must in some part have stemmed from the attack and what was going on around the time of the attack also.
 

rosada

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What is behind her behavior? Hexagram 4 describes someone who's life got started off fairly well - 4.1, 4.2 - but then at 4.3 they naively got pulled off track by someone with a stronger intention - in your daughter's case, she thought it was safe to walk down the street and this character's intention was to take advantage of her resulting in her feeling that she can't trust her instincts as to what is safe. Now that she doesn't trust her intuition to guide her safely, she feels she can rely only on what she knows for sure - but no one knows enough at that age (or any age!) so of course she all tangled up as described in 4.4. Further, 4.6 describes how rather than setting herself up to experience more punishment she withdraws from all possibilities of further similar misfortunes, but of course this means withdrawing from life too, so not a good strategy! This all leads to 40. Deliverance which may give some ideas for how to move forward.
 

moss elk

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I think the two most important questions to ask are:

Did she get professional counseling after the attack?
And
Is she in counseling now?
 

Trojina

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I did ask those things
 

rosada

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Further thoughts...
I note that the Image for 40. Deliverance specifically mentions forgiveness. I wonder if your daughter would benefit from consciously focusing on forgiving everything and everyone surrounding the incident - both the attacker and herself and God too. You might be able to plant a seed by simply using the word "forgive" in your conversation several times a day like, "Forgive me, could you repeat that?" or "This tight skit has no forgiveness!" and other simple ways of introducing the concept.

Also, you mention she maybe willfully indulging in unproductive behavior. 4.6 talks about eliminating temptations that might lead to trouble and while this could refer to your daughter staying home to eliminate possible repeats of attacks, it might also be a clue for how you can help her by not enabling her. As it sounds like she doesn't have a job and thus no income I'm assuming you provide the food. If she's addicted to junk food and you don't bring home anything other than fresh fruit and vegetables, her inner guidance may kick in overnight it only to feed her addiction. I know from experience that when ever I try to lose weight and eat right within two days I will magically get invited to birthday parties and gala restaurant openings! It's like my unconscious takes over and guides me to where the sugar is! If not, and she continues to be dependent on you and your food choices for her the worse that can happen is she'll lose weight and that may help with the brain fog too.

"Forks over knives.com" is a great website and their video "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" is an inspiration.
 

Liselle

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Karcher means enveloping as in a protective covering, not knowing as a protective caul, he doesn't mean the feeling of something bad enveloping a person.
Ah, okay, thank you.

Substituting "confined" for "enveloping" (Hilary) still might lead to the same place, though - she's confined in several big ways (line 4), doesn't know how to fix it (4 zhi 40), so she lashes out.

Also, you mention she maybe willfully indulging in unproductive behavior.
This may be correct or may not be, I don't think we know (yet?). Personally I'm a little wary of doing anything she might see as further punishment until it's quite clear it's the right strategy. I mean, if she eats nothing but potato chips and ice cream that isn't good even if she wasn't gaining weight...I'm not saying don't try to change anything, but especially with line 6 there in a role we don't understand with much certainty, maybe be careful with punishments for now.

Trojina also said this:
But it does seem more important to know what the querent's best position to this is and that could very likely to give some clue to the daughter's distress
It might be that putting two readings together will give a fuller picture we can understand better. One from the daughter's point of view (already done) and one as advice to Curious1.
 

rosada

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I'm not suggesting eliminating junk food as a punishment but as a way of following the advice of 4.6 - which I'm seeing as saying "Don't punish for eating junk food, just eliminate the junk food."
 

Trojina

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Substituting "confined" for "enveloping" (Hilary) still might lead to the same place, though - she's confined in several big ways (line 4), doesn't know how to fix it (4 zhi 40), so she lashes out.

I can't see anywhere that she 'lashes out' or even behaves badly. I've re read the initial post and there's nothing about lashing out or temper. It only says she's depressed basically, won't go out and doesn't care about anything. All the querent said was

Sometimes I feel there is a willfullness to persist with this.

The daughter might even subconsciously be punishing the mother, another way to see it. For what I don't know but occasionally people stay in a bad way as a manipulative tactic though it's rarely on a conscious level so I would think some kind of therapy would be essential. I am assuming she has had plenty already given the state she was in after the attack. Oh and yes it could be she just cannot see around or through this, either mother or daughter, as I said earlier we can't see the back of our own heads


Also wondering if this boy was dealt with ? Wondering if it would make a difference to her to know his crime was punished.
 

Liselle

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I can't see anywhere that she 'lashes out' or even behaves badly. I've re read the initial post and there's nothing about lashing out or temper. It only says she's depressed basically, won't go out and doesn't care about anything.
Yes, you're right, I think I saw this sort of thing as lashing out at herself, or at life in general or the circumstances she's in:
She gained an enormous amount of weight. She is 19 now. Totally isolated at home. I cannot get her out of my house to go work or to socialise. She complains constantly of fatigue. She tells me she does not care if she lives or dies and has no interest in Her appearance.



The daughter might even subconsciously be punishing the mother, another way to see it. For what I don't know but occasionally people stay in a bad way as a manipulative tactic though it's rarely on a conscious level so I would think some kind of therapy would be essential. I am assuming she has had plenty already given the state she was in after the attack. Oh and yes it could be she just cannot see around or through this, either mother or daughter, as I said earlier we can't see the back of our own heads
Yes any of that might be true, but I don't think we know yet and therefore an appropriate response isn't known yet either. If it was me, even if I did know for sure what was behind it, I think I'd still want Yi's advice on a strategy unless "what to do" was really obvious.

Also wondering if this boy was dealt with ? Wondering if it would make a difference to her to know his crime was punished.
Good question/point.

I'm not suggesting eliminating junk food as a punishment but as a way of following the advice of 4.6 - which I'm seeing as saying "Don't punish for eating junk food, just eliminate the junk food."
Oh, okay, I see how you got that, Rosada. Thank you.
 

curious1

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“What was her character like before the dreadful incident.”

She is my 3rd daughter and 11 years younger than the other 2. I was in my 40s when she was born, so her early childhood was stable. She’s always been very independent, was popular at school, very outgoing and a very strong leader. I’ve known her father all my life, but chose not to marry him. Natalie was planned.

She has a huge personality and was always more mature and together than most of her friends. She is exceptionally gifted at maths and music and very pretty. Unlike my older daughters, however she never showed much interest in spirituality until recently. At the age of 13, she carried herself like a 19 year old. Her dream for years was to become an architect and she spent hours designing houses.

The young man who attacked her unfortunately escaped while people were tending to her. The assault case was opened but no-one knows him.

She did not want to talk to a therapist after the attack, but she’s been in therapy for the past 2 years. I am not sure the therapist is right for her. She surprisingly agreed to do a few mushroom ceremonies (which is available where we live as formal ceremonies – similar to ayahuascha in Peru.) It helped.

What added to her anxiety and depression was the fact that her (once doting) father disappeared while she was struggling immediately after the attack. She was great while she was his golden girl, but this was too much trouble. He stopped contacting her, collecting her for weekends and holidays and in 2016 turned very nasty when he spitefully refused to sign travel documents so that she can visit her sisters who live in the UK. She was devastated and the fragile half-healed mental state just went south. Although he is very wealthy, he also provided for her poorly all her life and recently objected very strongly that he does not want to provide for her. I may have to start legal action so that he can contribute to her mental health costs. Forgiveness may be a bit hard for both of us right now.

The image of enveloping appears to me. Thank you Trojina. It feels like my talented child got lost in fog. I am still hanging on to the hope that the person she was will emerge again. She is not nasty or mean by nature and at time shows huge insight/maturity of spirit.

I try not to enable bad behavior. For this reason I am concerned that if I do nothing, she may still be here living in her bedroom by age 40.

What do I need to do for Natalie? Hex 46 line 2 3 4 to 16. I need to think about this before I can comment.

Thank you all for the help with this. I really appreciate this.
 
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diamanda

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What added to her anxiety and depression was the fact that her (once doting) father disappeared while she was struggling immediately after the attack. She was great while she was his golden girl, but this was too much trouble. He stopped contacting her, collecting her for weekends and holidays and in 2016 turned very nasty when he spitefully refused to sign travel documents so that she can visit her sisters who live in the UK. She was devastated and the fragile half-healed mental state just went south. Although he is very wealthy, he also provided for her poorly all her life and recently objected very strongly that he does not want to provide for her.
Oh dear... so perhaps he's the one described in the first cast? as your question was what's behind her behaviour and he obviously played a huge part in her current situation. It's interesting you use the expression golden girl, in conjunction with his cruel behaviour. If you look up the term 'golden child syndrome' you'll find some perhaps useful information.
 

moss elk

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wow, she got a double whammy:
the violent attack, then the man whose duty was to make her feel safe just abandoned her.

So, now she is going through all the same difficult adolescent things everyone does, topped with the added burden of trauma and betrayal by her father.

Yes, forgiving will be part of her healing but don't try to rush it. There is a time and place for forgiveness, but if it is forced to happen too soon, it can cause more damage by something like the following: "I have these terrible angry feelings. I'm told to let them go, therefore my feelings and myself are not important, maybe I deserved it."

Another thing that can happen is she could start to hate herself for not being able to defend herself, and for not being good enough to keep her fathers love. (as if she was responsible for either)

If the therapist isn't working, try to find one that specializes in victims of violence. Please try to be patient with her. (could this 4.6 be directed to you, about being frustrated with her? I feel it might.)
 

curious1

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Oh dear... so perhaps he's the one described in the first cast? as your question was what's behind her behaviour and he obviously played a huge part in her current situation. It's interesting you use the expression golden girl, in conjunction with his cruel behaviour. If you look up the term 'golden child syndrome' you'll find some perhaps useful information.

I went back and read again what you wrote and I agree. You described her father 100%. His behaviour is beyond belief.
 

Liselle

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So for the sake of organization (I like to have everything where I can see it readily, bear with me please), here are the two readings (translations from Hilary):

"What is behind Natalie’s behaviour."
hex 4 line 4.6 to 40

Line 4:
'Confined ignoramus.
Shame.'
Line 6:
'Striking the ignoramus.
Fruitless to act like an enemy,
Fruitful to resist enmity.'

"What do I need to do for Natalie?"
Hex 46 line 2 3 4 to 16

Line 2:
'True and confident,
And so it is fruitful to make the summer offering.
No mistake.'
Line 3:
'Pushing upward in the empty city.'
Line 4:
'The king makes offerings on Mount Qi.
Good fortune, no mistake.'
 
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diamanda

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What do I need to do for Natalie? 46.2.3.4 > 16
Bizarre answer. If you offer something small and sincere (46.2), it will be like a drop in the ocean and have no effect (46.3). Then you sacrifice something big and spectacular (46.4). And yet all these efforts and offerings lead to illusion (16). Perhaps this means that catering to her every small and large need will not work, it will only feed the illusion further. So don't keep doing things for her and sacrificing things for her, you don't need to do anything special, and if you continue offering, it will be counter-productive.

How about you also ask what you need to do for yourself? It doesn't sound like you can do much for her at this point (although with 3 changing lines this is a temporary hindrance). Please try to think about and look after yourself a bit more.
 

Liselle

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It does also seem relevant to think about the hexagrams as "big mountain to climb" and "enthusiasm," though.

It's certainly easier to climb a big mountain if one has enthusiasm, and is motivated by what's at the top.
 

Liselle

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Help her with goal-setting, help her find something she's motivated to set goals for?

Or - provide, or help her find, the first step (and then the one after that, and the one after that), and do it in a spirit of enthusiasm?

I'm getting a little mixed up between very literally advice for what you should do (your direct actions), and what you should help Natalie do. Example (just an example, it could go many ways): should you help her with goal-setting, or should you literally define the first/next step for her. Maybe some of both?

It's also going through my head that while she's 19, she's only 19. A lot of teenagers her age are confused about which mountain to climb and how to climb it, and she has a lot to deal with that most don't.

It's really easy (maybe too easy?) to think the first/next thing to do should be finishing high school...but that does have to be done. However if as you said her brain isn't "plugging in"...

Since she's not going to a regular school anyway, could she try just one class for now? Just one, whichever one out of the ones she still needs she's most interested in?
 
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Liselle

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I'm saying this about school partly just because it seems reasonable, maybe even obvious - but also because isn't climbing like that? Very orderly and methodical.

Could the lines describe something like that?

Line 2 - build confidence by making a summer offering, one that's manageable, but meaningful. Possibly, one online (or whatever) class of her choosing.

Line 3 - maybe that will be a goal she won't resist? Maybe she'll find it doesn't provide much resistance to her, either, maybe she'll move through it more easily than she expects?

Line 4 - Hilary says, "you might suffer losses, but the mountain remains, and it sets these things in perspective," and "It is time to rededicate yourself to your roots and the source of your strength. Steady your present ambitions by anchoring them to the past. Whether or not you can see any prospect of immediate success, this will ultimately mean good fortune."

Could that mean - maybe - that by re-starting school in a small way, it will reconnect her to the part of herself which used to enjoy school and learning? She'll remember she used to be good at this? And maybe it'll help her realize that regardless of what happened to her, there is a lot more to life - good parts of life?

Climbing a mountain is also a very tangible thing. I can at least imagine that being important for some people, maybe more important than psychological or spiritual intervention. I'm not discounting those things, but--- well, I remember hearing a story told by someone with PTSD, who said that what got her feeling better was when real, tangible things in her life started clicking into place again.
 
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I'll offer you a different perspective...I see 46.2.3.4>16 as you said "she agreed to do a mushroom ceremony"(46) There will be growth, the both of you will ascend through (16) the ceremony. (46) The both of you will see a great man (perhaps a shaman or other spiritual teacher), and will be like a tree growing from the earth. Wilhelm/Baynes: Image of 16 = "the ancient kings made music in order to honor merit, and offered it with splendor to the Supreme Deity, inviting their ancestors to be present. Sounds like the mushroom ceremony to me."Wilhelm/Baynes: Image of 46 = "the earth, wood grows: the image of Pushing Upward. Thus the superior man of devoted character heaps up small things in order to achieve something high and great."46, line 2: your daughter and other will be moved by your sincerity and offer of help. Your dedication will bring about harvest.46, line 3: advancement with ease, you will both advance through this ceremony. A little caution when there is such ease, is always good.46, line 4: these traumas are like coming before mountains, and riding yourselves of them, can be like making offerings to heaven. Continue with this, continue with the way you already know is right. More later
 
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One more thing to think about with 16, is it can be seen as being unpredictable, "The Elephant in the room." Also inspiration, motivation, illusion (through the mushroom ceremony perhaps) but then you still grow and advance through this 46.
 

Trojina

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What do I need to do for Natalie? Hex 46 line 2 3 4 to 16. I need to think about this before I can comment.

I think you need to try to inspire her with possibilities (16) that will lead her to grow steadily upward towards the goal (46).

So her father, unbelievably, has suckered all the will and brightness out of this girl and will and brightness is what can be restored.

It's a lovely reading, a hopeful reading. 16 is to do with making grand plans, making images of the future so we have something to grow into so goals as Liselle said are a real part of this. The flipside of 16 can be empty imaginings but 46 gives such structure there, an image of tree striving upwards. I like that the change patterns are 32 yang and 42 yin, there's something really solid about this reading and what is more whatever inspires her will have inspired her before, the spark is still there, she isn't starting from scratch in finding a direction, she can pick up on things she loved to do before this attack.

So I think a steady input of inspiration guiding her onwards towards her most cherished goals is the way forward.

In line 2 it is the spring offering and so it is small and meagre because winter has only just passed. But all that is needed is sincerity rather than ready formed offerings. She might find that going forward brings less resistance than anticipated in line 3, maybe as she moves forward some older interests fall away but there's nothing in the way here. In line 4 the process comes to really dedicating oneself to one's most central values and going from there.

I mustn't forget the question is what do you need to do for Natalie ? It seems to me there is so much you can do given this reading is so sturdy and forward looking. Don't stop looking forward to her future, let her know you have the greatest faith in her future. When she says life isn't worth living keep your faith on display to her that it is actually, that she can have a great life, that she can grow in her direction, that she has a stable base to grow from, you and her home.

16 makes me think of tantalising her in some way. 16 refers to music, that which stirs people and makes them want to move. Could you use music or dance activities to entice her forward. I think she herself still has her own steady sense of direction it's just it's been avalanched by a total loss of faith in life by the attack and her father. So I think you have to make a big show of faith (16) in her, a big show of faith in the fact she is going to have a happy future, a big show of faith that she can pick things up where she left off. 16 is also to do with energising, awakening, inspiring, believing in. I think that is the core of it that you can make her believe in herself again by showing your faith without failure.

This isn't a depressing reading, it's a hopeful inspiring energetic reading. I think you really have to find that deep faith in yourself to show it to her, to demonstrate it's there.

I don't know what the mushroom ceremony is but I do see music, dance, joyfulness as a great aid in awakening her will to strive onwards and upwards with her life.
 
B

becalm

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As a mature women who was attacked more than once at a similar age I can tell you now she hasn't recovered from the PTSD. From what you say she was attacked and abandoned by males. Me too. Bottom line is, going on my experience, she feels UNSAFE. Period. It's taken me years to accept I had PTSD and years to recover from it although I doubt you ever do, you just learn to manage it when triggers happen. I never, ever used medications, they're pointless in my opinion. You have to get to the Root of it all and the Root for me was my Self Worth. That's what I'm using to recover. Natalie's maybe something different. When you get attacked or abused you feel you must have done something to cause it and when you get abandoned especially by someone that is supposed to love you unconditionally. you blame yourself. No amount of people telling you it wasn't your fault, psychologist included, will ever make you believe it. Get to the Root of what's going on for her and take it from there. Of course this is just my opinion based on my experience.
 

curious1

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It is music.

Thank you for all the feedback. All of it resonates with me. We had many discussions about the different topics the last few days and 3 things come out of it as a result of you all. And they feel right.

Thank you for the comment about music. I went back to it. Natalie has a real talent for music. She went for an audition at a very well known classical music school near my house. She will start vocal training there in April. We also watched the video fat, sick and almost dead that was recommended. I've wanted to go on a juice fast for ages after seeing the unbelievable effects on a male colleague. N was so inspired that she took everything out of the house the same evening and locked it in my storeroom freezer. I am astounded that she's managed to stick to drinking veg juice for 4 days now. Incredibly I have no side effects or withdrawals.

We live in a violent country. There is a treatment called EDMR that I've seen resolve PTSD for many people who suffered violence. I never considered it because there was only one person in my city and I had a total dislike in her. The message from From the outside looking in prompted me to look it up again and found a number of EDMR therapist. I will take Natalie here because I know it cures/lifts PTSD in about 8 sessions. Finally it is time that I am a bit more selfish as well. Thank you everyone. I will update this again in a few months.
 

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