...life can be translucent

Menu
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Hexagram 53.3

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,686
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Hexagram 53.3

    Hi

    I have been looking into this line on James Dekorne's website.
    Ritsema/Karcher: Radiance flocking demons indeed.

    I am understanding that this can relate to inner compulsions, phobia's etc.

    Does anyone know where the following text comes from or how it relates to hexagram 53.3
    Please see below.

    Demon(iac), CH'OU: possessed by a malignant genius; ugly, physically or morally deformed: vile, disgraceful, shameful; drunken. The ideogram: fermenting liquor and soul...]

    I was wondering how it relates as it appears fairly full on.

    Steve

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Great Lakes
    Posts
    2,102
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    Every time I see Ritsema/Karcher,
    I imagine someone taking the I Ching in original Chinese, then putting it into google translate five times while drinking liquor until something unitelligable comes out.
    I think it is best to ignore that 'translation'.

    Here is Bradfords 53.3:

    The wild goose advances by degrees across the highlands
    The husband, on expedition, never returns
    The wife conceives but cannot raise her young
    Brutal
    Worthwhile to guard against predators

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moss Elk View Post
    Every time I see Ritsema/Karcher,
    I imagine someone taking the I Ching in original Chinese, then putting it into google translate five times while drinking liquor until something unitelligable comes out.
    LOL.


    I don't know too much about Karcher/Ritsema and just let you know of my own experiences.

    I received this line either in break-up times 'the husband... never returns' ... and/or when I felt very letdown and forsaken by others. In times like these, one is at danger to start to disregard themselves, the advice is then to bravely keep up your daily business and to avoid being pessimistic and fatalistic and instead to protect yourself from everything that is connected with a negative mindset. You simply have to keep up trust in the good things, even if you have a hard time to recognise them then.
    --> You mentioned 'phobia', if you surrender to this desperate mindset I am talking of, it could indeed lead to phobia or inner compulsions, generally said to psychological problems of any kind.
    Last edited by equinox; January 20th, 2018 at 10:27 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    Hi

    I have been looking into this line on James Dekorne's website.
    Ritsema/Karcher: Radiance flocking demons indeed.

    I am understanding that this can relate to inner compulsions, phobia's etc.

    Does anyone know where the following text comes from or how it relates to hexagram 53.3
    Please see below.

    Demon(iac), CH'OU: possessed by a malignant genius; ugly, physically or morally deformed: vile, disgraceful, shameful; drunken. The ideogram: fermenting liquor and soul...]

    I was wondering how it relates as it appears fairly full on.

    Steve
    I think 'demoniac' and 'possessed by a malignant genius' could refer to our 'inner demons', the demons of the mind, I was already mentioning in my last post.

    'Shameful, drunken, disgraceful' could talk of cultivating these 'inner demons', giving in to the things we do when we are very unhappy, like drinking each day, staying in bed all day in a depressive mood, disregarding our duties or/and friends, family etc... cultivating bad, harmful habits to put it briefly.

    So I think Karcher/Ritsema are maybe not that far from the 'original' meaning, but instead of choosing a pragmatic approach their words are very cryptic and more dramatic.
    Last edited by equinox; January 20th, 2018 at 12:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    Does anyone know where the following text comes from or how it relates to hexagram 53.3
    Please see below.
    Demon(iac), CH'OU: possessed by a malignant genius; ugly, physically or morally deformed: vile, disgraceful, shameful; drunken. The ideogram: fermenting liquor and soul...]
    The lines as we know them (e.g. as Moss Elk has cited above) are the Jian line text.
    There are more comments on each I Ching line, called the Xiang Zhuan.
    These are like footnotes to each line, and we can see them in Wilhelm, Legge, Bradford, on deKorne's site, etc.

    The Xiang Zhuan 'footnote' of 53.3 (53.3 > 20) contains the character CHOU.
    This character translates as (from chineseetymology.org):
    ugly / homely / bad-looking / abominable / vile / bad / shameful / disgraceful / infamous / to compare

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I've just asked Iching to give me an image of this man, who is my boss (for now..) as I seriously feel he is a covert narcissist, who loves to emotionally abuse everyone in very suttle ways.. unseen by the many, but not to my trained eyes and gut feelings. I got this line. Spot on.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 1970
    Location
    swamp in river delta in Holland
    Posts
    3,088
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Ritsema is more a concordance than a translation. A character is always translated with the same word and of course very often that makes no sense. One character can have 20 or even more meanings. The context decides which one fits.

    For me it was a gift - I realized that I could translate myself. I didn't use it like an oracle but rather like a textbook or a dictionary. I could search for characters and find more meanings. Many of those are in the back of the Ritsema book, so even when I couldn't find it in a dictionary, I had some idea of what it encompassed. There is a big difference between one well-defined literal meaning and one where several other meanings are playing along with it. The text becomes much more alive.
    'Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.'
    < Cesar A. Cruz >

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 1971
    Posts
    1,127
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heylise View Post
    One character can have 20 or even more meanings. The context decides which one fits.
    I agree with this and also it's about how we as individuals make meaning. Our thoughts, beliefs, the myths and symbology we buy into, our personal history and life experiences all contribute to our human end of the the chain that links with the original chinese text. Having a smorgasboard of connectivity to pick and nibble at allows a very personal, rich-layered and appropriate insight into the sageness in the text and behind the text. The translations of others tell us much about them and in that we could miss an important nuance that is right for us.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).