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Hello and please help with 2.5

theory of one

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Hello

I'm new here though I've been lurking about for awhile.

I've very recently started having bouts of insomnia. My health is good though much has been going on in my head recently. I've always been a sound sleeper but on and off lately I've been unable to click into "sleep". It dos'nt matter if I'm tired or not or what I'm thinking of or not thinking while I'm trying to sleep. This is very mysterious to me.

I've consulted the oracle about it and amazingly I've recieved the exact same reading twice in a row for only slightly differnt questions. First question was "what can I do about the insomnia?" second was just a general "talk to me about the insomnia".

The reading given is hexagram 2 with the fifth line moving. I've little clue as to the meaning as line 5 referers to lucky yellow undergarments. It seems like it's telling me that something is changing on a deeper level?

Any help or insight that any of you could give me would be most helpfull. I have Karchers total I ching and also the Huang translation.

Thanks a lot!


Mike
 
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bruce_g

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Interesting reading. With so many ways to come at this, let me offer this thought.

Hex. 2 is the physical plain, and you are existing on the highest safe level of that plain (line 5). Or, in other words, you are soaring in your body.

Your relating hexagram is 8: that which holds yourself together. This includes the idea of containment within yourself. This appears to be the action you can take to manage this bout of insomnia, ie: keep it together.

Btw, welcome to the awake at night club, and to the forum.
 

theory of one

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Hi Bruce

Thank You for the warm welcome!

Your take is enlightening ... currently I'm experiencing myself as awareness trapped in my body while I'm trying to sleep. The state is very much like meditation in that the space between thoughts becomes imense and I am still consious. A trippy state and certainly worthwhile as meditation but I'd rather be snoozing..

I did not have access to Huang eailier today when I did the reading. He does give a bit more insight to the fifth moving line. Looks like i'll digging a little bit into hex 8.

Thanks again!!


Mike
 
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bruce_g

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Mike,

I have that same experience! I’ve tried explaining it to others before but it comes out like just another spacey mind trip.

Is it like this?

I find myself in it just seconds (or less?) before falling into sleep; it’s like I wake up in the state of sleep, but it’s not the same as lucid dreaming. They say it’s impossible to stop the stream of thoughts, even when in deep meditation. But in this place time seems to stand still, and when times stands still, so does the stream of thoughts, pictures or inner dialogue – and all the while I am fully conscious. At that point I can choose to move the stream or keep it still. If I stay there, however, I will wake up and then will have trouble falling into sleep. So I’ll usually hang there for only a few minutes, and then let it go and fall asleep. There is no sense of need to do anything with it, and I think if I did, it would immediately stop.

I've tried practicing (meditating) my way into this state but have never managed to approach it. I find myself in it as though by accident; I only need catch it when it comes.

Does this sound familar?
 

dobro p

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"I've consulted the oracle about it and amazingly I've recieved the exact same reading twice in a row for only slightly differnt questions. First question was "what can I do about the insomnia?" second was just a general "talk to me about the insomnia".

The reading given is hexagram 2 with the fifth line moving. I've little clue as to the meaning as line 5 referers to lucky yellow undergarments. It seems like it's telling me that something is changing on a deeper level?"

Yeah, for sure. The Yi's *always* talking about something other than the symbol it uses. Unless the symbol matches your own personal reality, of course lol. But I doubt you're wearing yellow trousers very often these days. Am I right?

But you mentioned the word 'lucky' in your post. If it was me, I'd prefer to say 'very lucky'. Sleep's a deep issue in some ways, the lower part of life in some ways, and balance contributes to good sleep, of course. But whatever the Yi's image stirs up in you (and hex 2 and hex 1 are really rich in imagery and lend themselves to all sorts of meanings in the person who reads them), keep that 'very lucky' in mind. Whatever the cause of your sleep issue, something's going on here which is pretty fortunate for you. Can you find it?
 

nicky_p

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Hi Mike,

Having experienced insomnia on and off from about the age of 11 I've tried most things so I thought I might add a practical take based on your 'what to do'

Originally my mum gave me a copy of a meditation tape to relax me but forgot to tell me or send me the blurb of what a meditation tape was and they still laugh at me throwing the headphones across the room in a panic as I could hear voices behind the waves and was convinced that they were trying to brainwash me :eek:

I have tried sleeping tablets when I was younger and while the sedative ones do work wonders they also tended to leave me with a drugged dopey feeling during the day as well. I tried some herbal ones that had hops in them I think which 'aided in a more natural drift off' and have less if no noticable effects during the next day.

I've also found that if I have a pleasant static picture in my mind to start the 'stream' it's easier to drift into and so off to sleep.

At the moment I'm in a let nature take it's course stance - my body knows what sleep it wants and forcing it to do anything always back-fires on me ;) As long as I'm not restless and getting frustrated then the muscles and 'body' are getting the rest they need and if I am restless lying there is not doing any good whatsoever - it's almost as if I need to get up and do something to reset the clock and then try again. I've also found that I've 'thought' I've been awake all night and it turns out that I'm sound asleep having a boring dream of being awake :confused:

Anyway, hope there is something in there that helps.
And hope that you have happy, trippy dreams :D
Love
Nicky
xx
 

martin

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Interesting. When the cognitive machinery comes to a halt what remains is pure awareness, an empty sky.
The problem, if you want to sleep, is that this awareness can be too hard. Like in that song "I saw the Light, but the Light was much too bright", although that was probably indeed about an LSD trip or something. :)

For sleep awareness, the Light, needs to soften, to melt.
When you think of yang as hard (or too bright) and of yin as soft, hexagram 2 represents a complete softening. Line 5 emphasizes this even more. The yellow (golden) color that is associated with it has a melting quality.
How to soften, how to melt, how to go completely yin?
Thinking warm, soft, loving :) thoughts before you fall asleep may help. And breathing low, in the belly region, that also softens.
 

theory of one

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Hello All

Thanks for your replies! I was able to get some sleep last night!!! Yay!!

@ Bruce

I have that same experience! I’ve tried explaining it to others before but it comes out like just another spacey mind trip.

Is it like this?

I find myself in it just seconds (or less?) before falling into sleep; it’s like I wake up in the state of sleep, but it’s not the same as lucid dreaming. They say it’s impossible to stop the stream of thoughts, even when in deep meditation. But in this place time seems to stand still, and when times stands still, so does the stream of thoughts, pictures or inner dialog – and all the while I am fully conscious. At that point I can choose to move the stream or keep it still. If I stay there, however, I will wake up and then will have trouble falling into sleep. So I’ll usually hang there for only a few minutes, and then let it go and fall asleep. There is no sense of need to do anything with it, and I think if I did, it would immediately stop.

Bruce it's very similar to the state you describe here. It's not impossible to stop the stream of thoughts IMO just very difficult for an untrained mind to be quite. The state of awareness just is until I start to think again. Funny thing is I've tried and failed to achieve this state by meditating LOL

@ dobro

It doesn't feel lucky. Your right though #2 is a super deep hexagram. I studied it last night for quite awhile. What I came away with is that I need to be in a "following" mode re the changes in my life NOT my usual take no prisoners approach. In other words I need to relax and let life happen to me for awhile...

@ nicky_p

Thank You these ideas do help. I'm afraid of any drug but Mary Jane. I tried some melatonin last night. Did it help I can't say but I did sleep!

At the moment I'm in a let nature take it's course stance - my body knows what sleep it wants and forcing it to do anything always back-fires on me As long as I'm not restless and getting frustrated then the muscles and 'body' are getting the rest they need and if I am restless lying there is not doing any good whatsoever - it's almost as if I need to get up and do something to reset the clock and then try again. I've also found that I've 'thought' I've been awake all night and it turns out that I'm sound asleep having a boring dream of being awake

I think I had that I'm awake dream too! This is great advise and it's the course I've stuck mostly

@ martin

Interesting. When the cognitive machinery comes to a halt what remains is pure awareness, an empty sky.
The problem, if you want to sleep, is that this awareness can be too hard. Like in that song "I saw the Light, but the Light was much too bright", although that was probably indeed about an LSD trip or something.

Dude! You said it! Too hard like a prison!

For sleep awareness, the Light, needs to soften, to melt.
When you think of yang as hard (or too bright) and of yin as soft, hexagram 2 represents a complete softening. Line 5 emphasizes this even more. The yellow (golden) color that is associated with it has a melting quality.
How to soften, how to melt, how to go completely yin?
Thinking warm, soft, loving thoughts before you fall asleep may help. And breathing low, in the belly region, that also softens.

Complete softening IS what I need/needed. I was doing some deep breathing last night. I think it really helped to calm me down as I was anxious about getting to sleep.

I've always slept pretty good. Frankly it's one of the keys to my general good health. After a bout of insomnia two weeks ago and then a repeat this week I was really starting to freakout! I believe that it is life stresses that are bringing it on.


Thanks to all of you so much!


Mike
 
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bruce_g

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theory of one said:
Funny thing is I've tried and failed to achieve this state by meditating

Yes, this is perplexing to me as well. But as with synchronicities, I accept it when it occurs, and then release it.

If you had a history of short sleep cycles, as is my case and possibly Nicky’s as well (both mercurial personalities), I'd say that this is just something to learn to live peacefully with. Not everyone shares the same sleep cycles. But since you typically have no difficulty sleeping according to common sleep cycles, I'd say this is just a passing thing, and the less you worry about it the better you'll sleep.
 

Olga Super Star

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I had this cast about a friend of mine (a new friend).
I told her she has a yellow skirt in the line. She was very impressed with it and said she also has one in her wardrobe but never wore it. She has since been asking me what it means.

If anyone has anything to add to what has been said so far :flirt:


2.5
'Yellow skirt.
From the source, good fortune.'

2 zhi Hexagram 8, Earth Seeking Union. The noble is guided by the desire to find the best place where he can be of service. The lovers seek union with one another. Perhaps the yellow skirt is a sign of willingness to join together.


(my original question was Show me who this girl is: 2.1.5>3. It's the yellow skirt that we would like to know about :) )
 

ernobe

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Hello Mike
In your case I would compare the reading (2.5) with the next line. Perhaps you've been listening to dragons fighting and this keeps you up at night. Recently on CNN they reported that people living near an airport experienced greater cases of neurological diseases, and so they've linked the noise caused by the planes with peoples' need for peace and quiet when sleeping. I used to keep the T.V. on in the room where I was sleeping and got used to it, but after learning about this report I switched it off and notice a more soothing sleep sensation, and when I get up I feel more refreshed and better able to cope with the days' activities.
 

Trojina

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Please note Mike posted his query in 2006, 10 years ago. The last time he visited the forum was also ten years ago. It's always worth noting the date of the original thread post. Someone comes along and adds a post to an ancient thread and then everyone mistakenly thinks it's a new thread and starts answering the first person. Ten years is a long time ago. Let's hope Mike has had some sleep in the last decade.
 

ernobe

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Yea I noticed that too, after I posted. I take comfort in the fact that, according to the I-Ching (3.2) after ten years "things resume their natural course", so, whatever it was, it's over. Let's hope that the young lady in the verse found the suitor of her choice when the time was right.
 

susieq777

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I love this thread, and the idea of softening into the flow of sleep.

I got this line when I asked, "Will i go on as an entity after my death?"

It's very fitting and such a beautiful line. My ego is grappling with the idea because to me this says no, I will enter back into the golden thread but not be conscious as being Sue-beyomd-the-veil. More that I will be what I am now, which is the veil before Sue and the present Sue is now in and the veil that is after Sue, but that the concern that *I* go on is looking entirely through the wrong end of the telescope. I am That and have never been more or less, but Sue in Belgrave does not go on (I just misstyped on as om then, hehe). And that it is all perfectly fine because looking through the right end of the telescope, letting go of Sue from Belgrave is not losing anything at all, because there is nothing left to lose except that limited narrow view of "me". Let go of the idea of keeping and losing that, and that's when you can dance.

Anyone have any thoughts?
 
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Freedda

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Theory of One: I hope to respond more fully when I have the chance. In the mean time ...

for the future, consider putting these types of queries about an individual reading in the Shared Readings section.


Regards, David.
 

Trojina

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Theory of One: I hope to respond more fully when I have the chance. In the mean time ...

for the future, consider putting these types of queries about an individual reading in the Shared Readings section.


Regards, David.

Please don't because 'Theory of One' posted this thread 11 years ago !

I think it is so confusing when people tack comments on to these ancient threads and then others come along and start advising the initial poster because they think it's a current thread.

Let me check when 'theory of one' was last here on this forum...
 

Trojina

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Right, 'Theory of One' last visited this forum on 7th July 2006 !! 11 years ago !

He has not been here for 11 years ! You can give him advise about sleeping if you want to of course, but he may be dead or he may never return to the forum after 11 years away. At a glance I can see a member in this thread who died years ago....

I said that just a few posts ago in 2016...but then it was only a ten year old thread !
 

Trojina

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I love this thread, and the idea of softening into the flow of sleep.

I got this line when I asked, "Will i go on as an entity after my death?"

It's very fitting and such a beautiful line. My ego is grappling with the idea because to me this says no, I will enter back into the golden thread but not be conscious as being Sue-beyomd-the-veil. More that I will be what I am now, which is the veil before Sue and the present Sue is now in and the veil that is after Sue, but that the concern that *I* go on is looking entirely through the wrong end of the telescope. I am That and have never been more or less, but Sue in Belgrave does not go on (I just misstyped on as om then, hehe). And that it is all perfectly fine because looking through the right end of the telescope, letting go of Sue from Belgrave is not losing anything at all, because there is nothing left to lose except that limited narrow view of "me". Let go of the idea of keeping and losing that, and that's when you can dance.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Yes, please put this in wikiwing where others can find it, if you are in wikiwing

Well I guess people will find it here too, the problem is now it looks like the thread is current people show up with advice for the long gone 'theory of one'.
 
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Freedda

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Please don't because 'Theory of One' posted this thread 11 years ago !

I think it is so confusing when people tack comments on to these ancient threads and then others come along and start advising the initial poster because they think it's a current thread.
It is confusing, but that is the nature of a forum thread that can be revived and commented on at any time. I really don't care if it gets moved or not, but Shared Readings does seem a more fitting place for it.
 

Trojina

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It is confusing, but that is the nature of a forum thread that can be revived and commented on at any time. I really don't care if it gets moved or not, but Shared Readings does seem a more fitting place for it.

A thread can be commented on at any time but it often means people start answering the initial querent who last appeared years and years ago because they think it's a new thread.... So yes someone posts a comment, very interesting, SusieQ maybe knew it was an old thread but you didn't and you were going to respond to the initial poster who vanished over a decade ago. It is an SR thread yes but as it's been here for over a decade....

Obviously some threads are meant to be added to over time like the memorising threads or the unchanging hexagrams threads, that's the point of them but with ordinary threads most of the time adding comments leads to what happened here, someone turning up to offer advice to someone long since departed. Well you can if you like but feedback may not be forthcoming....
 

susieq777

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Yes, I hesitated about posting here because of that reason. I just loved the feel of this answer. Probably best to start a new thread next time and summarise the old thread.
 

Trojina

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...or link to the old thread ? You can of course post wherever you want to it's just that confusion always happens where someone just reads the first post and then responds as if the thread were current.

This can be very funny. As I said recently the funniest was where someone asked if they should go to a party/event that evening and a decade later someone responded 'yes'.
 

susieq777

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:rofl:

Well, better a 10-year response than a non-updated thread on what happened. And if both,occurred in that one thread, a very unsatisfying conclusion indeed :)

No, I'm with you. Linking is good. Linking and returning to update. I must say, and I'm sure it's been said before, a more prominent "here are your previous posts, please update button" or link would be good. I found my own page and have bookmarked it but it's a bit buried.

Of course, I guess some people post about what does X think of me and have no intention of coming back to update, but now I'm just whingeing really.
 

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