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Is it really the job or him?

cherrypicka

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Hi everybody,

I started working away from home around six months ago doing, what I, and everybody considers to be my dream job (having studied for eight years to be qualified for it. The only thing wrong with it is that it's 400miles from home and my family and partner (of 20-odd years) are still at home. I should also say that jobs in this field are fairly hard to come by and I have far more talented and better qualified friends still waiting for jobs like this.

I go back home more or less every weekend and it's very exhausting and really compromises my efficiency at work as I'm preparing to leave to travel home Friday dinner time, and after travelling from early Monday morning I'm not operating at peak performance at all the rest of the day. My partner hates coming up to see me and I know it's because he feels out of place among the people here. Nevertheless I'm gradually making my way in this job (at least I hope so) and am starting to feel as though things are starting to work out, however the relationship with my partner back home is becoming more and more strained. He really hates me being away, seems really unhappy and lost, and really wants me to pack up the job and do something back home. It tears me apart and I can see the relationship being eroded away week by week with the distance between us increasing because ultimately I have to adapt to the job and life away from him.

It seems almost irrevocable that our relationship will wither away to nothing, becoming more and more like strangers if I don't resign from the job soon and go home as there seems to be no chance that he will be able to move up here.

I threw the i ching with the general question 'What should I do' (knowing that the i ching always knows exactly what the question is - even if I sometimes don't) and I got the following hexagrams;

8 - union
->changing lines 2, 4 and 5 ->
40 - deliverance

Sadly, I'm too confused and exhausted to be able to decipher the i ching's answer myself but I hope the i ching knows that there are friends out there who will translate the answer for me.

Thanks for any interpretations and advice!

Cherrypicka
 

willowfox

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Hi,
Hex 8, line 2 hold to him inwardly, good fortune
line 4, hold to him outwardly, good fortune
line 5, holding together, good fortune

Hex 40 deliverance, to go the south west is good, return brings good fortune. Everything here is yelling for you to quit your job and to return home as soon as possible. Nothing is more important than the happiness of being together.
 

RindaR

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When you are feeling better, more rested, see if you think line 2 might be telling you to be true to yourself - hold to yourself inwardly. I respectfully disagree with willowfox, and think there is nothing more important than being true to yourself, having tried both ways.

Lise's interpretation of line 4 is consistent with this " Hold with what life brings to you. Your people, beliefs, even your hobby, but don't lose yourself in it. You yourself, your personal strength and wits and standards, are the base of giving support". Your personal strength and wits and standards are what have got you where you are now, you have worked for this for many years. I don't see thhis as a choice of him or the job, but one of will you be true to yourself or not, he gets to decide what he does about that. Perhaps he will follow you later, perhaps not.

Line 5 reads "When people have a base of ethics, known and self-evident to everyone, they make the strongest of unions. Nobody has to be forced (coerced), no laws and punishments are necessary. They stand by each other as the natural thing to do." indicating to me that if your relationship is solid, your difficulties will be overcome as a natural outcome of the give and take inherent in a good relationship.

Only you will be able to say which is the right way to look at the question posed by these differing points of view, and of course the corresponding answers.

Rinda
 

autumn

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Join yourself with what is truly you (8), and release what is not (40).

8.2. Inner affinity with a group is at work. Who you are deep down connects you with others (either the people you work for, or your partner you've moved from)
8.4 Pledge yourself externally to that which you belong
8.5 Allow those who belong with you to be drawn of their own accord. No forcing. Join yourself with those who it is not work for you to be joined to.
 

cherrypicka

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THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THE ADVICE, EVERYBODY.

It's really good to hear different people's take on it. It's interesting to see that there is advice telling me chose my man, and advice telling me to follow where my fate has taken me (i.e. the job).

The oddest thing is, that when I'm at work, I have to force myself to do the 400 miles home, even tho' I haven't really made any good friends here yet as every time there is any time off, I'm expected to head on back home, so I never get a chance really to go to social occasions, outings or classes at the weekends etc. But the work is so interesting, varied - and time consuming, I don't feel at all lonely in the evenings (I'm always happy to work after hours) and really enjoy coming home to my little place, and not having to be entertaining or funny or pretty or anything. Perhaps I'm weird and a bit of a workaholic to boot.

Conversely, when I'm at home at the weekends, because it causes so much disruption and I really feel for him, being on his own, I have to make myself go back to work. It's a really schizophrenic existence.

I wonder if I should be putting him through this? - What right have I to be expecting him to put up with it?

Then I think that if it was me, I'd find loads of great things to do in the week while my partner was away working...but maybe I'm deluding myself...perhaps if it was REALLY happening to me, I'd be miserable too...You can see how I'm swinging between one situation and the other?

Which I suppose is why I'm still confused about theI Ching's advice...I don't know WHERE my heart is! During the weekdays it's at work, and at the weekends, it's at home!

It makes me really sad to think that the relationship is the real cost of having a job I love. I can't imagine life without him, even if most of our contact is via emails and mobile's these days. On the other hand, if I gave it up, and went home and got any old job just to pay the bills, I'd feel like I'd totally wussed out - and betrayed myself and the great opportunity I'd been given.

....I'm so totally confused! Sorry for boring everybody!!!
 

philippa

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Hello cherrypicka,

I'm sure your issue is familiar to many people in some shape or form: dealing with matters that may drag in opposite directions.

I think the Yi's message is clear about your conflict here:

8.2 - you are truly drawn to your work, from the heart. (how many people can say that about their work?)
8.4 - you also want things to work with your partner. but the current situation keeps either of you from completely understanding the other's perspective.
8.5 - as per a few people above, this is about people coming together voluntarily. In this case, you and your partner need to come to an agreement that both are happy.

40 is an image of thunder striking releasing the "danger" or "trap". The message says, if nothing is broken, don't fix it. If there's something that needs to be resolved, do it asap. I strongly feel that 8.5 is the key here. Don't do something only for the sake of compromising.

Good luck.

Philippa
 

willowfox

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Hi,
is it possible to find another dream job much, much closer to home? That would certainly sort your problem out. Perhaps you should ask the I-Ching another question to help find a solution to your employment problem. But I believe if you get on your horse and travel the countryside you will certainly find another dream job much closer to home and heart. When, in the next 2-3 months.
 

Trojina

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How do you know Cherry picka will find a dream job closer to home in the next 2-3 months ? What in the Yis answers to her has made you reach this very definate conclusion ?
 

cherrypicka

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Thanks for your continued advice Phillipa, Willowfox and Trojan,

I'm very intrigued by your interpretation, Willowfox - I can't imagine that I'll find a better job than this, but one with warmer people, possibly yes! (I have to say that they're a very reserved bunch down here) - If the work itself wasn't so interesting, I definitely WOULDN'T be in this job. Could you elaborate on how you draw your conclusions, I'd be really interested.

I had a look in a couple of I Ching interpretation books that I found yesterday and the take on it was that I've joined with a like-minded group of people (8-union), that I am meant to be here, that you can't force other people to do what you want (changine line 5) which is how it feels for me when I feel like I'm being made to travel home rather than him coming to see me here and finally, the 40-deliverance hexagram suggested release and the end of tension, like a thunderstorm. The release implied loosening and letting go. Could it be that the I Ching is telling me that I should let go and release the tension? I would find this very hard to deal with.

I know the I Ching doesn't always give the answers you want to hear.

Again thanks for any advice and thoughts.
 

willowfox

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Hi,
it is kind of hard of to explain how I arrived at this conclusion but I think that if you start looking now you can indeed find another dream job closer to your home this year. Anyway, I still stand by my interpretation of Hex 8 and Hex 40, you should be together. Are you due for a holiday soon?
 

rosada

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Greetings Cherrypicka,

Perhaps further questions are necessary? Although it's true, the IC does seem to give us meaningful feedback even when we aren't sure what we're asking, it seems to me in this instance, while it does seem to be advocating you return to your homebase, it also seems to be mirroring your inner uncertainty. I mean, it seems to be restating the situation, but now the question is, is this indeed how you see the experience?

8.1 Says to me that you are fearful you may not ever get another good job in your field, that you are therefore thinking you have to put up with all these indignities and that this is an unfortunate state of mind. (or is it that you worry you may never have another friend, so you put up with his unwillingness to compromise?)

8.4 Emphasizes that you have a long term relationship and this job you now hold is leading you away from it. (or that you spent 8 years preparing for this powition and now the relationship is leading you astray?)

8.5 I think this is saying you are free to stay or leave your job (relationship). No need to feel some sort of karmic obligation to hang in there.

40.Deliverance. This is about finishing up loose ends and getting the heck out of the the job (or the relationship). "The superior man pardons mistakes and forgives misdeeds". Forgive yourself for this wild goose chase.

So you see, I am not sure any of these hexagrams are telling you what you should actually do. As an I Ching puzzel I do think it seems to be more slanted towards saying you should make a choice and end one or the other and most likely it should be the job. But sometimes I've found when the I Ching states things clearly like this it gives me a chance to step back and say, "Well, is this really how I feel?" Perhaps after reading all these responces you find yourself saying, "Yeah, but I really, really want to keep my job." In which case you may find yourself being guided to ask other questions: "How is it for me if I end the relationship?" "How is it for me if I end the job?' "How can I best transition from this position to a better one?"
After writing this all out I think the key thought is in 8.5, the idea that you don't have to feel predestined, bound or obligated to stay or go - although I do think 40 is emphasizing that if you do leave the job, you not leave your employer in a bad position, like the importance of completing what you agreed to do when you first accepted the job. By any chance, when you are at work, is your home town to the southwest? Or when you are home is the job to the southwest?
 
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cherrypicka

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Hi Willowfox and Rosada,

Thanks again for your insights. Rosada - Yes, the job has required me to move from the Northwest to the Southwest.

As I understand your interpretation - either choice is good - but a choice IS required? As regards the changing lines - yes it's true that I fear I might never have such a good relationship or such a good job if I give either of them up - so this does mirror my feelings (fears) on this. But the I Ching is saying 'whatever choice us made, it will result in the ending of the conflict and tension'?

Again I'm very intrigued by Willowfox's insights. I would like to think something would come up closer to home. The question is do I have to actively seek it out? (- and is distracting to be looking for that job, while trying to do this one?) Or will it present itself to me? I should say that, as many jobs are these days, it's only a 2 year contract (which is why he is reluctant to relocate, of course) and it's dependent on the progress I make during the two years, as to whether it will be extended.

Again, many thanks
 

rosada

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Yeah, the more I look at this and reflect on your original question I think what we're getting here is:

Question: What should I do?
Answer: Make a choice.

8 Union - 40 Deliverance.
Sounds like you have to deliver yourself from one union or the other.

The fact that you had to go to the Southwest for the job fits in with the the I Ching advising you to go to the Southwest. But on the otherhand, feng shui-wise, the Southwest direction is consider where one should start from to find partners. Auuugh!

Anyway, I think you should not try to read more into this than the I Ching saying it is time to make a decision. If you now want to ask more questions to evaluate which would be the better choice, I don't think that would be considered "importuning."
 
J

jesed

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Hi cherrypicka

I would suggest you another aproach:
a) General Diagnosis of my emotional life
b) General Diagnosis of my labor time
c) Diagnosis of my marriage
d) Diagnosis of my concrete situation in this job.

That would give you a picture about what is most important to chose..marriage or job.

Best wishes
 

cherrypicka

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Hi everybody - thanks so much, again.

I truly don't think I CAN make a choice - the whole situation is far too black and white.

A person can't choose a job over a person, nor can they choose a person over a job, surely?

Is life really meant to be THAT simple?
 

cherrypicka

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....thinking on, maybe the I Ching is telling me that I WON'T have to make the choice, maybe it will be made FOR me?
 

autumn

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There's nothing else to squeeze out of this one less-than-clear question you asked a few days ago. You want answers, they're available. Why not just focus and ask?
 

Trojina

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Hey Cherrypicka this is going to sound terribly 'new age' sorry in advance if it annoys, just a thought thats come to me several times following this thread.

I was thinking this really smacks of self setting self up to have to make a choice because on some level you want something changed (yeah obvious I know) but need for your own reasons to go about it this way. Here comes the new age bit - you 'created' this dilemma because you need to have it, perhaps because your self really needs to feel the freedom of free choice re your relationship/job. ( I know if someone said this to me it would irritate the *** out of me, yet from a distance thats how it kind of looks and you asked for more thoughts)

Who knows it may turn out that indeed the whole dilemma vanishes, ceases to be an issue (40) FWIW I see at as a positive answer because I feel one way or another you are going to make the right choice - that this whole 'choosing' scenario is going to bring some release...meanwhile maybe try to relax and not worry too much...or try asking another question.

(BTW I don't see anything in this answer to suggest you will find a dream job close to home, well who knows you might, but I can't see that it is indicated in your answer from the Yi.)
 
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willowfox

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Hi Cherry,

Hex 40 requires that you make a fresh start, the past is gone don't dwell on it any longer. Have a really good talk with your friend about this frustrating problem, sort it out. You have already made a move in the right direction by asking the I-Ching for guidance and it has been given to you. Now it is entirely up to you to make a decision on what course of action you will take. Only you can release the tension, that you have made for yourself. Therefore, check to see if it is still your own thoughts and actions that are holding you back. Mistakes were made in the past, fix them and make things right. Get together, return to a normal life. The time to act is right now. Get the happiness back into your life.

How did you find your present job, by searching for it? Seek and you will find. It is not that difficult. At first you will be very worried about ever finding another job but in the end you will find one. Look around and you will find a person, perhaps someone in the employment office who will assist you in finding the job. Success is coming to you soon, so don't worry. October and November are hot months.

The answers are there for those who have eyes to see them.
 

autumn

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Ms. Cherry....

I hate to see wasted opportunities for personal growth and insight. What could it hurt to look a little deeper? Trust yourself and the answers you'll get.
 

cherrypicka

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Hi All,

Thanks Trojan for your thoughts. I do see what you mean - I know that in lots of ways, I am really glad to be independent - in fact, it's a real priviledge, and I never thought that I could be independent again, as the other half of a long term relationship - it's just something I resigned to give up. I don't know if that makes sense..

Willowfox, I really don't feel as tho' I can give up the job on the basis that me and him can't seem to work it out, although I will look for something nearer to home, in the meantime - hopefully I will seek and therefore find.

I can't help but think the whole experience is part of a tempering process, although it's not much fun - but tempering isn't associated with pleasure is it - rather it's associated with becoming stronger and less brittle.

Autumn - I understand where you're coming from, but I always think that the I Ching challenges you to make sense of what it tells you the first time - even if it's your deepest, darkest secret, something you hadn't even thought to consider. Sometimes (I find) the I Ching doesn't pull it's punches..it just tells you like it is! The difficulty I sometimes have is opening my mind or heart to understand what it's telling me - Sometimes it tells me to follow and trust - when all I want to do is take control) and sometimes it tells me to take control - when all I want is, to be swept along and be passive.

I generally only ask the I Ching again when the NEXT thing has happened - I don't know if that's right or not.

But what I fear most of all is making a choice or decision based on my own short-sightedness, selfishness, immaturity or egotistic-ness (if such a word exists).

Sometimes I really can't see the wood for the trees..
 

autumn

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Autumn - I understand where you're coming from, but I always think that the I Ching challenges you to make sense of what it tells you the first time - even if it's your deepest, darkest secret, something you hadn't even thought to consider. Sometimes (I find) the I Ching doesn't pull it's punches..it just tells you like it is! The difficulty I sometimes have is opening my mind or heart to understand what it's telling me -

I agree.... I had a good clairvoyant teacher tell me about six months ago that there were two mistakes people make in divination that both relate directly to an inability to be guided, and a need to manipulate their answers. The first is the tendency to ask over and over again to a question that has already been answered. You aren't doing that. The second is to fail to ask the questions that need to be asked when you are being guided to focus in one area or another of your life.

I just think there is some real talent and wisdom you are turning away from on this board to fail to directly address your relationship and your job.
 
J

jesed

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Hi cherrypicka

I'll try to express why i suggested the dialogue.

I fear that you could be mixing separate things: a) The situation at your job and b) the situation with your husband.

To say it straightforward (sorry if it could be rude): I fear that you could be using the job situation to avoid recognize marriage dificulties of diferent nature.

Why I fear that?
a) The title of your thread
b) The previous thread about a guy in your job place
c) The answer you got from Yi's in this thread

So, to clarify, it would be useful to examinate each one of those situations separatelly (job in one hand ==> questions "b" and "d" in the suggested dialogue; and marriage in other hand ==> questions "a" and "c" in the suggested dialogue)

Best wishes
 

cherrypicka

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Hi again everybody,

As suggested; I threw the I Ching asking for wisdom and advice re: relationship with partner and the same re: job and recieved the answers;

4- Youthful folly - not getting the message?

- changing lines; -> 2 (tolerating others' shortcomings)

and -> 3 (offering yourself unwisely and giving up your dignity?)

which took me to

52 - Keeping still - resting and staying quiet?

...withdrawing? From what though?

And the same question re: the job

and recieved;

19 - Approach ('becoming'?) BTW I've never understood what the I Ching refers to when it says the eighth month.

changing line -> 6 (the advance of honesty and generosity - humbly coming back to earth and approaching others?) which took me to

41 - Decrease (sacrifice or keeping things simple?)

....being alone?

I'm looking at these two pairs of hexagrams and, maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but read one way, they're saying the job should go, or another way, that the relationship has to go. Or am I just really bad at interpretations?
 

willowfox

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Hi Cherry,

Relationship with partner. Answer Hex 4.2,3>52
Hex 4.2 become more caring and protective, take a wife(husband) and establish a home.
Hex 4.3 you are flirting with something that is beyond you, give it up.
Hex 52 keeping still, stopping, be still and find inner peace. Do not dwell on the past or worry about the future, focus only on the present.

Job. Answer Hex 19.6>41
Hex 19.6 be humble and return to straighten out your affairs. Discuss your present position to your fellow workers.
Hex 41 decrease, loss, sacrifice, let go. Decrease means that you must give something up, make a sacrifice, your present job. After decrease comes increase, other opportunities will present themselves later, so don't worry.
 
J

jesed

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This reinforce and clarify your first answer (and the interpretation willowfox give you)... the problem is in your relationship...you can ("should") fix the situation with your husband (4>52) even if that implies that you must sacrifice your ascending job (19>41)

Now, since you got 41 and not 33 or 23...it seems for me (despite willowfox's comment) that you should'nt give up from your actual job...just slow-down.

Best wishes
 

willowfox

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Hi cherry,
you have never told any of us what your job is and I was just wondering. How about in a government laboratory, at first I thought it had to do with children but then why travel so far.
 

autumn

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What struck me about your answers was that you set up the question as black/white, him/job, and your answers don’t reflect that. Perhaps you are projecting an either/or situation between your job and him because of another either/or situation you are dealing with somewhere else in your life.

Your advice for your relationship is, “You are working in error/ignorance.” There are two pieces to your error. The first is line 2, which describes an investment of energy outside of the immediate family. The reason why I interpret it that way here is its translation, "Embracing the ignorant (lower status), The inexperienced one sustains the household". This could mean, you (as household here) are being sustained by an "inexperienced one" someone outside the family. The general progression of hex 4 in line 2 was discussed in another thread as "adolescence", investing in the future, planting the seeds. Because the subject is your partnership, and you are considering ending it, you are probably "investing" oustide of your marriage

The second is line 3, blind seduction by someone or something. This needs no explanation. The advice of hexagram 52 is clear. Stop pouring your energy outside of your relationship. Remain still. Now, that says nothing about quitting your job, because you didn’t focus your question on whether to quit your job. You asked for advice.

I have a little different take on what your advice was for 19.6 (41). You are described as 19.6, at the highest pinnacle, in a position of knowledge, like the sage. Your position is prestigious and a blessing. According to Wilheim, the sage is already accomplished, yet returns to teach and dispense blessing (41). As advice, that seems to me to be asking you to remember who you are in this position, and to be worthy of it. Become the consummate professional. I could be wrong, but that’s what I see in it.
 
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willowfox

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Hex 19.6 "the sage has accumulated wisdom and is beyond *personal* ambition".

Cherry has gained wisdom (information,answers to her questions and that is a blessing) and is now beyond personal ambition, the job is no longer important to her. She returns to her job in a goodhearted way to explain to her fellow workers the problems that she was having, making a decision that had become a very distracting problem, the job or her partner. A successful outcome. Good partners are damn hard to find but good jobs are out there.
 
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