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Time for Salary increase: 7.2 ->2?

elizabeth

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Could someone help translate the times (month/year/day) of this reading?

I asked: Can you show me the time when a salary increase will be possible for me?

Answer: 7. Shih / The Army, changing line 2.
above K'un The Receptive, Earth
below K'an The Abysmal, Water

The Judgement: The Army. The army needs perseverance
And a strong man.
Good fortune without blame.

The Image: In the middle of the earth is water:
The image of The Army.
Thus the superior man increases his masses
By generosity toward the people.

Change in the second place means:
In the midst of the army.
Good fortune. No blame.
The king bestows a triple decoration.

2. 2. K'un / The Receptive
above K'un The Receptive, Earth
below K'un The Receptive, Earth

The Judgement: The Receptive brings about sublime success,
Furthering through the perseverance of a mare.
If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;
But if he follows, he finds guidance.
It is favorable to find friends in the west and south,
To forego friends in the east and north.
Quiet perseverance brings good fortune.

The image: The earth's condition is receptive devotion.
Thus the superior man who has breadth of character
Carries the outer world.
+++

This is a followup to the post from a month and a half ago. For jesed and autumn, and the others who helped me then, a brief update and background. The short version is I will be speaking to my boss on Tuesday, and asking for a salary review either now or, if thats not possible, then in February at the pseudo-one-year mark. (long story) I have curtailed plans to purchase any apartment (new or old, now or later) bc I have been kicked out of this one, and rents are now double what I've been paying. Based on the state of real estate here now, I cannot sustain a living longterm on this salary -- or for that matter, even short term (I can't look at appropriate places bc current funds do not cover them). The problem is I only began this job in February and the salary was set at that time, not accounting for the past 6 month skyrocket housing boom. As I'm living in a foreign country, I am tempted to move home now, and staying will depend upon
1) me getting the increase. if i dont get it, i'm sending out resumes and leaving
2) getting a job offer back in the States. Without the salary increase, i cannot move back until i have another job in hand.

I'll be posting some followup questions but wanted some input on this. If i should rephrase the question, let me know (maybe I should have said "when will i RECEIVE the salary increase" bc that is what is most impt right now.

Thanks in advance for your help!
-e.
 

jte

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Elizabeth, I understand from what you write above that your situation is fairly serious. So, I should let you know that I don't mean to be flip in this response. However, in 7.2 it does sort of seem like you got exactly what you asked for - an image of the time when a salary increase will be possible for you...

Perhaps you aren't reporting the question precisely as you asked it, but nonetheless it appears to be how you meant it, no? Maybe a more precise approach in questioning could help?

(Or maybe one of the folks around here who use calendrical approaches can give you more info of the kind you're asking for in your post. But I thought the above was worth pointing out nonetheless...)

- Jeff
 

willowfox

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I asked: Can you show me the time when a salary increase will be possible for me?

Answer 7.2 > 2

Hex 2 indicates the time period between the 25th of October to the 31st of October, 2006, give or take a couple of days.
So, I suppose that you could mention to your boss on Tuesday, that you are finding it extremely hard to make ends meet and could he consider giving you a pay rise in the near future. Explain the whole story to him, that is if he listens or if you can actually talk with him.

Actually getting the pay rise may not occur until January/February. I have the feeling that you will not get a pay rise soon.
 

willowfox

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I asked: Can you show me the time when a salary increase will be possible for me?

Answer 7.2 > 2

hex 7.2 says that you are in the boss's good books, so good luck there.

hex 2 don't make demands. Give the boss food to chew on, so that he can decide what to do about the salary increase in his own time. Very positive.
 

elizabeth

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Thanks Jeff and willowfox. Yes, I was interested in exact calendric interpretation for hexes 7 and 2. I understand there are several different ways to do this. Ideally i need the pay raise NOW or assurance that it will occur later in a volume enough to compensate me for what I will be paying between now and..whenever i get it.
 

willowfox

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I know that your financial situation is bad at the moment and for a while to come but I don't see your boss agreeing to a pay rise yet. I was wondering if your boss is also having some financial problems?
As I said above hex is October 25 - 31st, very fortunate time. Hex 7 is May next year so not really of any use here. Again, it comes down to increases next year Jan/Feb.
Well, have to see what somebody else says.
 

autumn

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Hexagram 7 represents the time between June 17, 2006, and March 16, 2007. The second line is represented by the time between Sept. 15 and Oct. 31 (if the calculations I learned from Jesed are correct). I think you were previously told to seek a raise the first week of October when you asked about this.

So, the answer is now.
 

autumn

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Wait-

I am wrong. You are supposed to calculate the number of days between June 17 and March 16. Then you divide by six. In Excel I got 272days. Divided by 6- that's 45.33 days. So, the first line is June 17 + 45.33 days.

In Excel I got-
Line 1: June 17-Aug. 1
Line 2: Aug. 2- Sept 15
Line 3: Sept 16- Oct. 31
Line 4: Nov.1 - Dec. 15
Line 5: Dec. 16- Jan. 29
Line 6: Jan. 29- Mar. 16
 
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elizabeth

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Autumn, thanks. I could not have asked for the raise in September for two reasons, one of which is that I wasn't an official full time employee yet at that point. That happened only on Sept. 18th..and involved paperwork and confusion on both ends, so introducing salary talks amidst all that would not have been a good idea. So the Yi is telling me, basically then, that the time to have asked is passed....hmm.

I need to know if I'm going to get this raise -- at any point, Feb, May, now, later -- or not. I wonder if the Yi would answer that? I speak to my boss tomorrow and have to let several apartments know Yay or Nay about signing year long leases. If i cannot stay in the country... I just dont know how to stall any longer. This is all just exploding in my face..
 

willowfox

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Hexagram 7 represents the time between June 17, 2006, and March 16, 2007.

Out of curiosity, how did you get hex 7 to equal the above dates?

Also, when I read about this before, I thought you divided 365 days by 8 = 45.625 days per time period. I know that I did not understand where all the bits and pieces came from when I read the articule.
 

nicky_p

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Hi Elizabeth,
It seems you've had a load of trouble whilst being in that country. Maybe it's worth asking about the prospect of coming home as well to see which scenario looks better?
Love
Nicky
 

willowfox

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So the Yi is telling me, basically then, that the time to have asked is passed....hmm.

No, it's not. We discussed this before and the hexs that you received at that time were telling you to get your feet more firmly entrenched under the table, which was leading up to asking for a pay rise, not in September but later. It seems to me that you wil get a pay rise, later not sooner. But test the waters tomorrow and see what happens.

Are you still in the old apartment, or have you recently moved to another?
 

autumn

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Elizabeth, I honestly don't know whether the active line being in the past indicates that the time to ask for a raise has come and gone. My understanding of this technique is limited to translating dates from the trigrams, and I learned that method here.

The timeframes certainly seem signficant, based on what you're saying. When the second line was active, you "achieved recognition", in the "midst of the organization". 7.2 seems a very appropriate symbolization of being made a permanent employee.The ending trigram, Earth, is active at the one-year anniversary mark. How does last June fit into this scenario?

If 7.2 is indeed an objective picture of your position within the "army" of this organization, then the present active line is 3, and it also seems to describe the rising rent situation fairly well. Something interferes with your objective (supporting yourself by living there) and renders you powerless.

Actually, Elizabeth, this is really bothering me.....you would have to have a very large salary increase to cover a 100% increase in rent.

I know you've asked several questiosn, but did you ever ask whether being in that country was an appropriate life path? If you should be there at all? I’ve come to the conclusion that the I-ching specializes in giving us commentary on our life choices, and seeing our life choices as “paths”. Maybe the message you're getting is that this was a wrong detour, and to be wary of continuing down this path.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Elizabeth

The answer is quite tricky.... (active line in the past, as autumn had pointed). I would say, if I need to say, between Novemeber 1st, 2006 and January 7, 2007 (line 5 in hex 2)

But, I would better suggest you another aproach (when the questions is more a predictive kind of question, is more accurate the mathematical method):

"Prospect for getting a salary rise within the next X months" (you decide how many months for the scope, from 1 to 12)

The interpretation would be with the mathematical method, so I would need the month, day and hour in local time when you made the cast.

Best wishes
 

willowfox

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Well, I don't see your boss agreeing to a wage increase just yet. Your salary will remain the same. There is a possibility that you may receive some money at the beginning of December. A salary increase at the end of January 2007, but probably not as much as you wanted. Your salary prospects are not strong for quite some time to come, meaning you will not receive a good wage. Now the job is causing you stress.
As for long distance travel, return home, this seems unlikely, travel in the country, yes. You are in a fixed position for the time being.
If you are still in the market for buying a place, again that could happen next Febuary but as the house prices are soaring and your wages are declining relative to what the market is doing, it thus seems unlikely. The hex that you received telling you back in September to buy the apartment because it was a good investment, would have proved to be correct. Sadly, you missed out there.
 

martin

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I think that, apart from more precise time calculations, hexagrams with a 'female' trigram (earth, lake, fire or wood) on top and a 'male' lower trigram usually indicate a rather strong upward flow that corresponds to fast developments in the outer world (when I find the time I will write more about this, will start a thread for it then).

A problem in this case (hex 7) is the hesitation/uncertainty/doubt of the lower water trigram. Hence the need for leadership in this hexagram, one should try to decide on a course of action and stick to it, instead of wavering. But if the 'danger' is expressed it is heard and accepted (upper trigram earth).
Based on this and the promising second line I would expect progress in this matter soon. Of course I don't know if it will be enough (a considerable salary increase).
 
B

bruce_g

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martin said:
I think that, apart from more precise time calculations, hexagrams with a 'female' trigram (earth, lake, fire or wood) on top and a 'male' lower trigram usually indicate a rather strong upward flow that corresponds to fast developments in the outer world (when I find the time I will write more about this, will start a thread for it then).

Martin, interesting. Looking forward to hearing your ideas on this.

The whole timeline prediction thing gives me the creeps, especially when it's predicted with such absolute certainty.
 

elizabeth

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Hi,
I haven't much time, but wanted to reply to autumn's post first and I"ll return to the others later. Thanks, everyone, for your input.

Autumn, to your questions:
1) last June isn't very significant. It is the first time I met my boss in person (late May/early June). But I agreed to the job in late Feb, my contract start date was April, and as you already know, I became a FT employee in Sept.

2) I am indeed powerless without cash here.
3) "Actually, Elizabeth, this is really bothering me.....you would have to have a very large salary increase to cover a 100% increase in rent. "

Exactly. I need my salary doubled. this isnt a "nice to have". This is a "must have in order to survive." Its a serious question, I'm not playing around with it.

4) "I know you've asked several questiosn, but did you ever ask whether being in that country was an appropriate life path? If you should be there at all? I’ve come to the conclusion that the I-ching specializes in giving us commentary on our life choices, and seeing our life choices as “paths”. Maybe the message you're getting is that this was a wrong detour, and to be wary of continuing down this path."

I may have asked some version of that, but if I did, I don't recall the reply. I'll ask now and see what i get. Thanks! Will report back shortly.

+++

"Is staying in X country an appropriate path for me for the next year at least?"

Answer: youthful folly.
 

elizabeth

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What is my prospect for getting a salary raise in the next 3 months?""
Hex 38, changing lines 1 and 2 ---> Hex 35 progress (unchanging).

(asked at 6:01pm, 3 hrs later than Greenwhich mean time (3 hrs later than London))

38. K'uei / Opposition
above Li The Clinging, Flame
below Tui The Joyous, Lake

Judgement
Opposition. In small matters, good fortune.

The Image
Above fire; below, the lake:
The image of Opposition.
Thus amid all fellowship
The superior man retains his individuality.

The Lines
Change at the beginning means:
Remorse disappears.
If you lose your horse, do not run after it;
It will come back of its own accord.
When you see evil people,
Guard yourself against mistakes.

Change in the second place means:
One meets his lord in a narrow street.
No blame.

35. Chin / Progress

above Li The Clinging, Flame


below K'un The Receptive, Earth


The Judgement
Progress. The powerful prince
Is honored with horses in large numbers.
In a single day he is granted audience three times.

The Image
The sun rises over the earth:
The image of Progress.
Thus the superior man himself
Brightens his bright virtue
 
B

bruce_g

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Elizabeth,

You seem to be agonizing over this matter, and asking question after question. So I have a couple of questions for you to consider. No need to answer them to me or to this lovely board panel who generously tries to contribute to solving your dilemma.

If you were your boss, would you give the raise you’ve been inquiring about?
And, why or why not?
How big of a raise?
Would that be enough to meet your needs?
If not, what alternative course of action is there for you?

If you feel you deserve this raise, why do you hesitate to just ask your boss?
What is it you are waiting for?

To be 7.2 is to be in your center, to rule and serve at the same time. It means being generous and strong. It means to fortify and enable yourself, to take responsibility.

To be 2 is to open, and to carry whatever you have been given to carry. It can also mean to have faith in heaven, and be responsive to heaven’s impulses, while not neglecting what has been given to your care.

To be 4 is to not know for certain. It means to ask a question and to accept the answer as the answer. It means that at first you do not where you are going, or even what is happening. But gradually you begin to move in a direction, still unsure of where it will lead. That’s just something you’ll have to accept.

Have faith. ;)
 

martin

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bruce_g said:
The whole timeline prediction thing gives me the creeps, especially when it's predicted with such absolute certainty.

I doubt if predictions that narrow things down to a week or even a month are at all possible. I think the I Ching can perhaps give an approximate indication (like a season) sometimes and be more precise in exceptional cases. But it comes from a place that is one or a few steps closer to eternity. There is no such thing as clock time there. There is no time at all or something like inner time, that is measured in units of experience (whatever that means, lol).
How long does an inner week last in clock time? 1 hour, 1 day, 3 years? :)
 

elizabeth

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Well, if I was my boss, and I understood that I was the only American here who had international expenses (flights, international medical care out of pocket, no 401K, no social security contributions or medicare) and was being paid below market level and below cost of living, and IF i valued either me as an employee or this position being filled (the one I occupy)...YES i would give me the raise, or else accept the idea that this person would be leaving the company due to lack of compensation.

I just got off the phone WITH said boss. I told him the whole story and requested more compensation. He said he would talk to his boss and the site managers where I am but he said most likely it is not possible, bc salaries are only reviewed once per year, and that will be next September (2007), and the reflections in paychecks arent until Oct (07). And that generally increases or raises are limited to (according to site) 10% maximum, in most cases 2-4% etc. So...its not promising.

I'm disappointed by his reactions but at least I said my piece ad can move forward in some way or other now. I cannot be subsidizing a corporation with my own generosity long term...
 

willowfox

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"I doubt if predictions that narrow things down to a week or even a month are at all possible. I think the I Ching can perhaps give an approximate indication (like a season) sometimes and be more precise in exceptional cases."

Why don't you try and see?
 

willowfox

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Originally Posted by bruce_g
The whole timeline prediction thing gives me the creeps, especially when it's predicted with such absolute certainty.

Why does it frighten you so much?
 

luz

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Willowfox,

Out of curiousity, what is your prediction in this thread?
The question was:
"Can you show me the time when a salary increase will be possible for me?"

In your first post you say that end of October-beginning November is a fortunate time for the pay raise, because Hex 2 points to that time period, right?

But after that you say that you 'have the feeling' this won't happen soon. That you feeeeel this will happen in January or February. What good was the October/November prediction then? Do you believe in the time frame prediction or not? :confused:
 

willowfox

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"In your first post you say that end of October-beginning November is a fortunate time for the pay raise, because Hex 2 points to that time period, right?"

Wrong, read it again or get some new glasses.

Hex 2 indicates the time period between the 25th of October to the 31st of October, 2006, give or take a couple of days.
As I said above hex is October 25 - 31st, very fortunate time.

Where is the prediction to get a salary rise in October mentioned?
 

willowfox

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To lightangel,

Please read this more carefully, thank you.

I asked: Can you show me the time when a salary increase will be possible for me?

Answer 7.2 > 2

"Hex 2 indicates the time period between the 25th of October to the 31st of October, 2006, give or take a couple of days.
So, I suppose that you could mention to your boss on Tuesday, that you are finding it extremely hard to make ends meet and could he consider giving you a pay rise in the near future. Explain the whole story to him, that is if he listens or if you can actually talk with him.

Actually getting the pay rise may not occur until January/February. I have the feeling that you will not get a pay rise soon."

Oh golly, no mention of a pay rise in October, is there?
 

luz

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Well, I luckily don't need reading glasses yet, willowfox, but I can sympathize. :mischief:

Regarding your first reply. What you are saying now is that end of October time frame (my bad, Novemeber was not involved) was *not* a prediction to the question. So, what is it then?? I ask the I Ching, "when is a good time for this or that" and the I Ching responds: "Well, November is a fortunate time... but not for this... " :confused: I mean, am I missing something????

You are saying we should try your method, that it works, but the demonstration you give of it is flawed. The only hex-time frame relationship you mention is NOT the answer. Where does January February come from? Which hex? I saw you said later that hex 7 is for June, so is there a secret hexagram you have that you use for this? How can the rest of us mere humans use your methods if we miss crucial information?
 

elizabeth

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I also wasnt clear where February popped up from.

In any case, I'm interested in when I will get a significant raise (by significant, I dont mean 5 or 10 percent, but more like 25-100%). The last reading above is worth interpreting. I'm not sure what 38 and 35 have to say...
 
B

bruce_g

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elizabeth said:
Well, if I was my boss, and I understood that I was the only American here who had international expenses (flights, international medical care out of pocket, no 401K, no social security contributions or medicare) and was being paid below market level and below cost of living, and IF i valued either me as an employee or this position being filled (the one I occupy)...YES i would give me the raise, or else accept the idea that this person would be leaving the company due to lack of compensation.

I just got off the phone WITH said boss. I told him the whole story and requested more compensation. He said he would talk to his boss and the site managers where I am but he said most likely it is not possible, bc salaries are only reviewed once per year, and that will be next September (2007), and the reflections in paychecks arent until Oct (07). And that generally increases or raises are limited to (according to site) 10% maximum, in most cases 2-4% etc. So...its not promising.

I'm disappointed by his reactions but at least I said my piece ad can move forward in some way or other now. I cannot be subsidizing a corporation with my own generosity long term...

Good, at least that's clear. Now your mind is free to examine new possibilities?
 

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