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esolo

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I did a reading where the answer to why someone hasn't done something was 47.1. My question is more about what the line means than the reading itself. Is there a sense here with this line that the person may not be ABLE to do anything about the situation? I realize that it may be an attitude problem but I'm wondering if it could also be that someone simply isn't able to affect the situation because he/she is surrounded, trapped etc....because I think this might be the case.
 

soulreaver

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I got the same hex about a guy named ghandi, why does he just sit there. It's very perplexing. I think his legs were broken.

John
 

esolo

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What exactly are you trying to say?

I would REALLY like to hear some intelligble ideas here about this line because it's an issue that's very important to me. All I want to know is if anyone has ever experienced his line as meaning oppression/restriction that one has little control over. Wilhelm does make it sound this way:

"superior men are oppressed and held in restraint by inferior men"
 
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willowfox

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hex 47.1 If your friend finds themselves in trouble, it is no good their giving into negative thoughts, that the matter will never sort itself out, they must be mentally strong and project outwards to overcome the gloom and doom. Are they in a state of depression for a long time or a short time? 3 weeks?
The problem/trouble is real to them but the gloom/doom and depression are all in the head, an attitude problem.
 

esolo

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In other words, there IS an oppressive situation here that one has little control over....but the advice is to not let it get you down...not to give into the gloom and doom?
 

Trojina

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esolo said:
In other words, there IS an oppressive situation here that one has little control over....but the advice is to not let it get you down...not to give into the gloom and doom?

I can only speak from my experience but more and more I find 47 is absolutely about attitude. I tend to get it on occasion when I have fallen into despair and worry over something when such an attitude is not at all necessary and certainly not helpful. I think line 1 can simply be about a state of depression, a gloomy outlook that only you have the power to change. I think its likley if you asked why someone hasn't done something this answer may indicate they can't be bothered because they feel pretty despondent about things. (Thats quite a different issue to whether they have 'reason' to feel despondent, I mean we all may differ in what we may view a valid reason to be down)

I find I quite like to get 47 now because quite often it means its in my power to get out of the hole I've gotten into, I feel thats what 47,1 is more or less about.

Mmm so no in answer to your original post I don't think this is about something one has no control over, quite the reverse, this gloom is pretty much self generated.

I wished I'd understood that years ago. I remember throwing it when I was very depressed at about 18 years old. I only had Wilhelm and Hilary was problably still in infants school so there was no Clarity - ooh no internet either, lol anyway I thought when I got this line the Yi meant there was absolutely no hope for me and i would remain in some terribly restrictive circumstance for a long time and it just made me more miserable. So I missed the point entirely which was simply not to fall prey to gloom and doom of circular neurotic negative thinking.
 
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willowfox

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"In other words, there IS an oppressive situation here that one has little control over.."

It could be a real situation as in to others but it could also be real just to them. They have/had control but they lose it either temporarily or for quite sometime until they or someone else helps them out of the hole that they are digging for themselves. Now a days people tend to sit and watch the TV (no longer under a tree)in a total daze of gloom and doom until someone or something shakes them out of it (like having the power cut off).
 

esolo

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So I guess the consensus is that it could be either 1) an externally oppressive situation over which one has litle control or 2) an internal attitude problem. Of course, it could be 1 and then that causes 2. I suppose. The advice then being to change one's attitude in the face of an externally oppressive situation. That would seem to make sense from the relating 58.1 where one is advised to remain content and joyous.

A friend had this hexagram come up in response to "What's he planning for me?" She had "run away" from her husband and was returning when she asked that question. She interpreted it as saying that he was going to attempt to "imprison" her and not allow her to leave again. That would be of course, an externally oppressive situation.
 
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bruce_g

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willowfox said:
It could be a real situation as in to others but it could also be real just to them. They have/had control but they lose it either temporarily or for quite sometime until they or someone else helps them out of the hole that they are digging for themselves. Now a days people tend to sit and watch the TV (no longer under a tree)in a total daze of gloom and doom until someone or something shakes them out of it (like having the power cut off).

fwiw, I REALLY like this.
 

bradford

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esolo said:
I did a reading where the answer to why someone hasn't done something was 47.1. My question is more about what the line means than the reading itself. Is there a sense here with this line that the person may not be ABLE to do anything about the situation? I realize that it may be an attitude problem but I'm wondering if it could also be that someone simply isn't able to affect the situation because he/she is surrounded, trapped etc....because I think this might be the case.

There's a little play here with the word for Valley (Gu3), which, as in our tongue, also refers to a Depression (it's also played with in the Well at 48.2). I would look to this first, more than Oppression, or maybe Depression as a consequence of Oppression. But the problem to solve now is Depression, getting out of this rut and up and about.
 
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bruce_g

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bradford said:
There's a little play here with the word for Valley (Gu3), which, as in our tongue, also refers to a Depression (it's also played with in the Well at 48.2). I would look to this first, more than Oppression, or maybe Depression as a consequence of Oppression. But the problem to solve now is Depression, getting out of this rut and up and about.

Agrees.

Line 1 is lucky to receive, because it is early enough to easily change the course.
 

hilary

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Now a days people tend to sit and watch the TV (no longer under a tree)in a total daze of gloom and doom until someone or something shakes them out of it (like having the power cut off). http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=44444
LOL! Yes, I like this too!

It's not always so easy to climb out of the valley under your own steam (/by your own bootstraps), of course. The line's a perfect description of depression, when you might be round any number of people without meeting them. Yi just says you're down there, and what it's like. It doesn't give any advice on whether you can or should climb out; it doesn't say that being down there in isolation is a 'bad thing' in itself. We're left to work all that out by ourselves.

If someone else were planning 47.1 for me, though, I'd run the other way very fast.
 

bradford

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Hi all-
Some of you are aware of my theory that there is a lot more humor in the Zhouyi than is generally acknowledged, humor that was deliberate and intended by the authors, but often buried in other alternate interpretations and double entendres.
I don't think there is any hexagram where this is more true than 47, the wordiest of them all. The form of humor varies throughout the Yi, but in 47 I see a whole lot of parody and caricature. I think that this is done with the intention of lightening us up, getting us to snap out of these loops of dark mood and dark nights of the soul.
 
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bruce_g

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bradford said:
Hi all-
Some of you are aware of my theory that there is a lot more humor in the Zhouyi than is generally acknowledged, humor that was deliberate and intended by the authors, but often buried in other alternate interpretations and double entendres.
I don't think there is any hexagram where this is more true than 47, the wordiest of them all. The form of humor varies throughout the Yi, but in 47 I see a whole lot of parody and caricature. I think that this is done with the intention of lightening us up, getting us to snap out of these loops of dark mood and dark nights of the soul.

I also enjoy the humor of Yi, and can visualize the slightly sadistic sarcasm of the master, taunting his student with line 1, as though poking the lad's ribs with his staff.... knowing full well the young sourpuss's foul mood.

47 in general does present a paradox. Only joy can overcome sadness, but it’s hard to convince yourself of this from inside your cocoon.
 

bradford

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bruce_g said:
as though poking the lad's ribs with his staff.... knowing full well the young sourpuss's foul mood.

Now, wouldn't that be an extra something if he was poked and tickled with the same cane he got his ass whipped with?
 
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bruce_g

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bradford said:
Now, wouldn't that be an extra something if he was poked and tickled with the same cane he got his ass whipped with?

Spare the rod, spoil the student. Yeh, it's kinda like that. A kinder, more gentle master may be easier on the back, but most awakenings are not especially kind.
 

esolo

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Bradford, your translation differs significantly from Wilhelm's:

"With bottom belabored by a wooden cane?" (Bradford)
"One sits oppressed under a bare tree" (Wilhelm)

I'm assuming that this has something to do with the original.

In the situation where the line came up there was a very definite "ass whipping" that occured and I suspect that this person isn't doing anything because he has, as your commentary states, let this grow and grow and now can't stop dwelling on it.

What about 58.1? I don't understand it. However, in this situation the person DOES have something really good out there waiting...but doesn't see it or isn't focusing on it. If he would take that first step out of the valley of gloom he'd be joyous. The problem is that he isn't moving. He's wallowing.
 

willowfox

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"The problem is that he isn't moving. He's wallowing."

I told you this before in a previous thread, he wallowing in self pity, he needs friends and time but the end date is closing in fast, so now he needs a shove and perhaps a kick.
 

bradford

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esolo said:
Bradford, your translation differs significantly from Wilhelm's:
"With bottom belabored by a wooden cane?" (Bradford)
"One sits oppressed under a bare tree" (Wilhelm)
I'm assuming that this has something to do with the original.

My Matrix translation can walk you through this.
There are three ass whippings in the Yi (43.4, 44.3 and 47.1)
All use Tun2 for the butt. It doesn't mean to sit (that's zuo4).
There are also no words here for "one" and "bare"
 

hilary

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I once had a customer, new to all this, receive all 3 backside lines in quick succession. It's moments like this that remind me what divining with Yi is all about...
 

esolo

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willowfox said:
"The problem is that he isn't moving. He's wallowing."

I told you this before in a previous thread, he wallowing in self pity, he needs friends and time but the end date is closing in fast, so now he needs a shove and perhaps a kick.

What do yiou mean the "end date is closing in fast"? I plan on trying to do something about this next week. Will see if I can help the situation.

I asked "What does he need in his life right now?" Answer 8, unchanged. I asked, "What can I do to make him feel happier?" Answer: 31.3 to 45
 
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bradford

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hilary said:
I once had a customer, new to all this, receive all 3 backside lines in quick succession. It's moments like this that remind me what divining with Yi is all about...

I'm going to guess that they didn't follow up and tell you what happened.
Naughty customers about to get spankings don't do that?
 

hilary

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I don't remember - not that I could discuss it here if I did. What I do remember is the glorious moment of writing something like,

"Yi has three lines about buttocks: you've received all of them now."

I'm pretty sure things like this never happen to people who work with the Angel Cards oracle.
 

Sparhawk

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"With bottom belabored by a wooden cane?" (Bradford)

Yes, I've always found that rendition of the line by Bradford very "poetic". Something that Sade would envy... :D

L
 

Sparhawk

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hilary said:
"Yi has three lines about buttocks: you've received all of them now."

I certainly hope that one of your advises was a visit to a proctologist... :rofl:

L
 

bradford

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sparhawk said:
I certainly hope that one of your advises was a visit to a proctologist...

The rod is applied sideways, Luis, you perv
 

Sparhawk

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bradford said:
The rod is applied sideways, Luis, you perv

Oh no, Mister! You da perv! :D I was talking to Hilary about the poor guy who drew all three lines referring to "butt". It could have been a signal that he had bowel problems, hence the visit to the proctologist... :D

Yours was about that poetic "belaboring" for "ass whipping"... :rofl:

L
 
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