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How to get over it

moonrise

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Hi, everyone,

I need your advice very much. Recently I broke off the communication with a friend who was very important to me. He misunderstood my intentions...and everything ended.

He is much much older and he was something like a guide to me not a man I wanted to be with. Here was the misunderstanding, actually. He though I wanted something, a relationship with him, but it was not the case.

I asked already what to do about him...but now I asked Yi Jing how to get over this, because I am so hurt that this had caused me some sleepless nights. I feel terrible, so guilty that I was not careful about how I expressed things and I got misunderstood and on the other hand I feel that he was a little too stuborn, not ready to listen and he just stopped communicating with me.

This is eating me alive, I admit and I asked how to get through this. I got:
27.4 ->changing into 21

I guess 27 is suggesting I should tend to my own self, take care of my thoughts and correct attitude. 21 is suggesting I speak the truth since it is "biting through"? Or should I not be tempted to speak and just wait?

Can you help here, please, I would be so grateful!
 

bradford_h

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Hi Moonrise-
It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the reading already. Most, it seems, who post questions here, don't even offer their starting point or what they think so far.
Your statement "eating me alive" is most interesting in that both the Ben (starting) and Zhi Gua concern eating.
Concentrate on doing things which strengthen, rather than weaken you. Focus on your primary purposes in life - for your own physical and mental health, not as a distraction.
And speak the truth. Just write a sincere letter. Nothing quite so good as honesty and candor to either clear up misunderstandings or to calmly come to understand that it's time to move on. Don't pace the floor waiting for an answer - you will have already done all you can.
 

kevin

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Hi Moonrise

So sorry to hear your news.

Agreeing with both yourself and Brad...

27 ? Jaws / Nourishing. Notice the Hexagram with its bright line at the top and bottom is like an open mouth. This is one of the traditional images of this hexagram. A pair of jaws open to receive nourishment. Nourishment can be of many kinds, food, spiritual, emotional etc.


The Relating figure 21 ? Biting through. See here how the hexagram liner pattern is the same as 27 but with the bright line in line 4? This is, again traditionally, seen as the mouth with an obstruction in it. Hence the need to bite through the obstacle.

So the Yi seems to be saying that this separation has caused something to happen to you where your ability to nourish yourself is blocked.

27 Your need to nourish? the need to seek what nourishes us.

Line 4 Says shake your jaws and get rid of the obstruction? this will work.

Seen in this light the Yi seems to be saying once you can start nourishing yourself again you will get over it.

Bu here?s a thought this reading can equally well refer to words. The words we take in and need to take in 27. Also of 21 blocked communication and the need to clear the blockage.

Pardon me for saying this? but what was the question you might have held in your heart of hearts when you did the consultation?

clearing the blockage bodes very well for great things to come...

Hope this is of some use.

--Kevin
 

auriel

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Men always misunderstand women's intentions, but on the whole it doesn't go as deep as you might think. Men are resiliant, espeacially if they can assure themselves they needn't feel guilty. I mention this because of the line in 27, taking care of nourishment like a tiger. Apetites, espeacially the appetite to help and provide for- like his- can tend to go to far, wanting to achieve more than is mete just because it's possible. But for sure the story will gnaw at him (21), and if he is the wise man you intimate he is, the proper "legal" boundaries between you can be established.
By the same token and more importantly, the reading tells you to take care of the needs of your own heart, not to let the matter slide, not to be introverted, but to find a way to make the relationship(s) that you need, and also to provide for him too. The two objectives are not incompatible. 27 says spread some joy. Might be his ego needs some soothing and making a tiger's leap, you could,within the boundaries you set, still do the job. Probably by avoiding the painfull issues, possibly by seeking help on another matter, or just by sending out some manner of gift or affirmation. Acceptance on some level is a lot better than outright rejection.
This reading seems to say you could have everything you originally wanted. Of course, it also is an admonition to be clear about your own needs and then go out and get them. When I get this line it makes me glad, a little action will reap rewards.

Tamad Shud
 

moonrise

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Thank you so much for your answers!

Kevin, what do you mean by "what was the question you might have held in your heart of hearts when you did the consultation?"
happy.gif
I didn't understand your implication.

You see, I am going to meet this man in january - we are going to the same place and the meeting is inevitable. Our communication is only by emails and now he said I should not write him again.

But all I long for is just for him to understand...as I said, it gets so difficult. I would love to write him and explain, I started many emails, but I don't send them because I am scared of what he might say or he might just ignore it and that would hurt me even more. And then to go there and meet him...it would be even worse.

But I asked Yi Jing: Should I write an email and explain?
I got: 5, changing lines 1 and 3, changing into hexagram 8.

As I feel it is telling me to wait...but I cannot put the two moving lines together: the first is about waiting and it says: lead a normal life for as long as possible. But the third is saying: you cannot wait in the mud.

It is true...it is a mud, a big, smelly one and waiting in it is killing me.

Then, the hexagram 8 is suggesting a reunion.
Is this reading telling me that I should not do anything, just wait and yes, I will wait in the mud, but I should just accept it - and things will work out by themselves, probably when we meet?

I guess Yi Jing is sympathetic to my suffering, it knows that I am stuck in the mud
happy.gif
but it keeps telling me to wait.

What do you think? Please, help, there come times when I am fine, but then come moments when I am just devastated...I just need him to understand. He was like a spiritual master to me and the thought that I messed up and that he won't listen to me is...killing me.

Thank you!
 

moonrise

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Tamad Shud,

your answer was lovely...thank you, you reassured me a little.
 

bradford_h

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Moonrise-
It sounds like you Really want to take a passive role here, in spite of the Yi's advice.
The mouth that is eating you alive is an image you have put on the situation. The situation has no sentience, no appetite or needs, and yet it wants to eat you. This image effectively makes you the prey instead of the predator. The Yi is showing you or reminging you of "the eye of the tiger", as literally as it gets. Focus, get your appetite back. Yes, writing the truth would mean, as the Zhi Gua inplies, "biting the bullet".
You were warned about "Waiting in the mud. Inviting predators to approach" yet you seem to want to take this as advice on what to do. This is not where your hope is.
 

kevin

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Hi Moonrise

It does sound particularly painful.

When thinking of your reading it struck me that there were two very strong images. One of blocked nourishing of oneself and one of blocked communication.

Sometimes we ask the Yi one thing with our mind but another question is held in our heart. Then the Yi might be answering the one and not the other ? but which? It struck me that the blocked communication answer implied another question other than how to heal. That is why I asked?

That third line in Hexagram 5 carries a warning not to wait there as it might attract negative things from without.

Have you asked what influence this person might have on your life were you to be successful in re-starting communications?

--Kevin
 

moonrise

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Hi,
thank you for helping out...

So, you think I should do something? Write, explain? But I am so scared...he can be so harsh with his words.

His influence in my life...well, I hope he can stay a friend, if I need an advice that I am able to ask. I am scared that if I write an poke into this matter I will loose even those small chances I have to restore things...

Please, comment...you think Yi Jing is telling me to move? But what about the hexagram 5 - which is literally "waiting"?

What if I mess up even further...what if he won't even read what I write? He is convinced that all I want to do is to force him to have a certain kind of relatinship, emotional reponse...

I just need him to understand that all he was ever to me was a spiritual guide and yes, I did care a lot for him but only in this matter.

He is 40 years older than me...and he was the only perosn who ever understood me. But he said that I should not write to him and that I should find someone else to share with. He still thinks I want to be his girlfriend or something and I am afraid he is not ready to listen. But if I wait and meet him, just say hi...maybe things will unblock.

Or not? You think I should write - again??
I asked Yi Jing about writing him again.
I got: 18.2.3, changes into 23
Well, 18 is about corecting which has been spoiled. So, this might suggest that I should try to clear things up...
The changing lines suggest I should do something, too, as I understand it; "more effort is better than less at this time" They say I should be heard, I should move.
But what about 23? Is it saying that which is false will go and only which is true will remain? So, I should go forward and be truthful?

Please, help me out here, tell me what you think.
I suffer so much because of this situation. What to do?
 
M

micheline

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dear moonrise,
Waiting in the mud is painful and leaves you open to more pain.

What is the worst that could happen if you bit the bullet and wrote to tell him how you feel about the misunderstanding? The very worst is that he doesnt read it/no response or that he responds harshly.....you think this will send you into into spasms of more hurt, and maybe it would hurt, but you can handle it! The important thing is more to say what you need to say, be a bit of a tigress for your own cause, for your own truth.

On the other hand, he might respond in a gentle way and accept your offering of an explanation.

But however HE responds is not as important as you facing the situation and biting through your own fears and feelings. Ultimately it has much more to do with your examination of how/why his actions/nonactions have such a powerful effect on you. Your initial reading was very positive for going forward and finding what you need to know.

NO matter how he responds now, I think that in january when you see him, you will feel righted by the fact that you said what you had to say. YOu won't be wondering if you should have said it, and you won't be waiting for something from him. Hoping maybe, but not waiting in the mud.

Take heart, you are stronger than you think.
 

void

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Sorry I do not understand what you think you have done wrong. A man 40 years older than you who you saw as a spiritual guide made the mistaken assumption that you wanted a sexual relationship with him. Upon realising you see him in purely platonic terms he cuts off all contact with you, yet you think you have erred ? Of course I am unaware of all the details of the situation but from what I've read would seem to me he surely is more at fault than you are ?

It inevitably comes to my mind that you may be dealing with unresolved issues with you father - or even your mother ? Hex 18 may be quite literal here - it speaks of dealing with issues of "what is spoiled by the father." With a man 40 years older there must have been an element of the fatherly (or even grand-fatherly) in the relationship, which is why you saw him as a guide figure. Possibly this is what 18 is addressing for you here - check back your relationship with actual father and see how it may be reflected in this relationship. Just an idea.

I don't know your age but if you are 25 and he is 65 or you are 30 and he is 70, he was kind of making a strange assumption that your interest was not just platonic.
 
P

peace

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I agree with Void. Anything that is that "charged" has past roots - especially if you feel you're the one who did something wrong.

There is no harm in talking this through with him - to understand his perspective - but not necessary to believe he is correct.

Good luck!
Susan
 

auriel

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hey moonrise,
The people here are all giving you good advice!
But, by the way-5 1&3 change to 29 (not 8): water on water, endless emotion, "abyss on abyss" they say. Emotions bring up other emotions- deep hidden ones- and mining the hidden emotions, cleaning out past hurts is what its all about; getting lost in academic points about the changes can be an abstraction from the real work (you know that). The judgement(29) "if you are sincere you have success in your heart" warns us against that particular abyss in an abyss,saying simply to follow your heart when things get abstuse. Look: the changes are giving you simple true pictures. You are at the distant border far from your friend, waiting; and you are waiting in the mud of personal pain. You want to work out the problem but (18.2) some humiliation is all you have to worry about & (18.3) being formally correct doesn't work here. That that changes to 23 is in part because you are really dealing with 2 problems (expressed in those 2 lines) whose solutions are antithetical-you have 2 relationships: one to save and one to finish. the image(23) gives the advice that you have to shower gifts on the people (to demonstrate and actuate your selflessness in the matter at hand).
so it seems the 3 readings taken together say: just give some kind of sign of your good wishes- gee who could doubt 'em? take care of your self, do the work, and let time do its healing thing. mixed in there is a warning possibly of some danger, if you try to bring about premature dialogue where emotions might solidify, which as Bradford intimates is one aspect of 27.4, the jaws of a dilemna. Which is why you should aim, maybe for a "quiet peace"

also by the way "tamad shud" isn't my name, it's a formal arabic greeting, something like "go in peace" that i learned from the Rubiyat, that just popped into my head, i wanted to honor your sincerity, y'know; but as you mentioned how you'll meet your friend, maybe the whole quatrain's apropos. [They say wine's a metaphor for understanding; &turning your glass downward is the honorable way to refuse to drink]

When on your joyful errand you pass
among the guests scattered in the grass
and reach the spot where I made one
turn down an empty glass-
tamad shud
 
J

jesed

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Hi Moonrise

Just in case the commentarie could be useful:

I have a very diferent interpretation. Answer is not about your relationship (aproach/not aproach; write/no to write), but is about your feelings related to the break-up.

You didn't ask about the realtionship (how to aproach to X.. ) but "how to get over this, because I am so hurt that this had caused me some sleepless nights"

So, The context (related hex 21) is: this feelings (sadness, angry, lost-of-peace...) are like something stock in your mouth. You have to dropp them (beat the obstacle to break it).

How? (hex 27) "seeking real substance for the mouth" (LiSe's translation), like a hungry tiger (line 4).

Now, in traditional teachings is said: feelings and ideas are the food for our souls.

What are you eating for your soul? good feelings/ideas (real food)? or bad feelings/ideas (not nourishment)?

Even more: allowing yourself to be depress, angry, thinking-all-the-time-on-it and so on: is good food or bad food for your soul?

Best wishes
 

moonrise

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Hi, everyone,

I am very grateful for your answers, you were a big help to me!

Well, I was mistaken - my hexagram was not 5 changing into 8 but 63.1.3. changing into 8.

But...I did write him. I felt much better after your advice you gave me and I went to bed with peace. But I woke up early in the morning with such pain, I felt my heart was just bleeding...I decided to write and try to explain for the last time.
And he doesn't respond, the thing I was dreading the most.

I admit, I cannot believe he is treating me this way...he was the person I trusted the most, he helped me go through most difficult times in my life and I felt he was the only one who understood me.

But it doesn't matter, whatever Yi Jing said or even if I was wrong in the hexagram (5 instead of 63)...I guess I needed this push to write anyway.
Because I felt so misunderstood that I was thinking about writing him...but some time in the future, after we met. But it is just too long to wait, why wait and think? I got it out of my system if he doesn't find it worthy to read, that is his problem.

About the age difference and the father issue: yes, of course there is the father issue. This psychological problem was interfering because I was constantly projecting the fear of rejection. I never had a father, so I guess this so much older man was a certain outlet for this. I have problems when it comes to men, I feel rejected and not respected all the time and I seek recognition, appreciation.

But on the other hand, I guess I pick very cold men who are harsh and cruel towards me...this is not the first time that someone is so disrespectful to my feelings.

Our communication was about him being something like a guide and I did love him, this is no secret, he knew that, he is a therapist, he deals with people's minds all the time, he is far too experienced not to recognize what was there. And I was very open about it, we talked about this, it was out in the open. We share the same spiritual path and I needed his help and my love for him was only about trust and gratitude. I told him that many times.
My mistake was that I expressed what I feel a little to vigouroulsy, with too much overflow and he said that this love was unreal and that I was making emotional demands on him, that I believe we have a certain relationship which we don't. This was happening before, he said to me that he is not interested in having a girfriend...but I was never interested in having a relationship with him, be with him, be his girlfriend - and he never let me explain. He is very strong, very grounded and he doesn't let anyone interfere.

I just felt so guilty...I just needed for him to understand, accept. I didn't want to continue the communication, it was okay if we said goodbye, but I just needed to do it with understanding...

The problem is mostly guilt here...I felt I was wrong, that I did such a terrible mistake that is why it is so difficult to get over this. Now I explained, again, but he doesn't listen. He probably didn't even read what I wrote.
But I asked him, just to understand...I admit, I still cannot believe it, that he has no compassion, I might have been foolish in some ways but this treatment is just...too painful. I don't feel I deserved it...did I? Just a word from him, that he respects how I feel would heal everything. And then saying goodbye would be easy. I have no problem in saying goodbye but I do have a problem that he doesn't hear me. Is that too much to ask?

I feel that I must be wrong somewhere...I don't see something clearly, what?
Can you help me here? I don't know how to get through this...what if I really did something so wrong that his treatment is correct, that I deserve it?

I asked Yi Jing: what did I do wrong?

I got 61.6, changing into 60.
Please, help me with your insights, I cannot see clearly anything now.
61 is about inner truth...There were times before when I felt that he was not respectful to what I feel. I am so much younger, I feel he felt that my understandings are not up to his. I felt crushed and misunderstood sometimes but I trusted him, his wisdom, so I rather doubted myself. Is this the lesson here? Never let anyone intrude in your truth no matter how more experienced he might be?
Even before I tried to talk to him and explain that I don't want to be his girlfriend, that I just need a small contact with him, but he just laughed. Maybe I should have listened to myself more...but I trusted him, I felt maybe he is right. And I was afraid to stand up for myself, I was scared that he might just leave...
I guess I do have problems with following my truth, standing up for it. Is this what 61 is trying to tell me?

I am starting to feel so guilty again...that I messed up, annoyed him and brought this onto myself. He was the only person in my life with whom I felt understood, in my spiritual understandings and my longings to discover who I am...he was helping me here. This parting, so cold and that he just ignores me is devastating.

I asked also: what to do about this man, this situation?
I got 5.1, changing into 48
I guess I must do nothing, just wait that the pain goes while I drink from my inner well. I guess I do need to focus on my inner spiritual source and don't depend on anybody else.

Please, help me here, I need to get through this somehow... What is Yi Jing trying to tell me in these two questions?
Thank you.
 
P

peace

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Hi Moonrise:

I have to make this quick - and I see how much pain you're in.

By believing it's your fault - it makes you feel you could have controlled his feelings - if only you did/said/reacted....

In a bizarre way, that is less painful than accepting that he is who he is and that you can have no effect at all on who he is.

It seems that when someone demands anything of him beyond his comfort level - all bets are off.
You have to play it his way, with the intensity he wants and needs - or that's it. He's flattered with your need for him - as long as you don't ask for more than he wants to give.

Without getting into a whole analyzing thing - which isn't fair to you - perhaps you believe you did something to keep your father away - that he didn't come to find you at some point. This may be unconscious.

This is a great opportunity for you to explore this - perhaps with some help. I think this is a really good opportunity for you!

Be well and take care,
Rosalie
 

jte

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Hi, Moonrise -

"what to do about this man, this situation?
I got 5.1, changing into 48 I guess I must do nothing, just wait that the pain goes while I drink from my inner well. I guess I do need to focus on my inner spiritual source and don't depend on anybody else. "

I think your interpretation here is pretty much right on target *except* the part about "don't depend on anyone else" - while you definitely shouldn't go back to this man you describe for more emotional distress, that doesn't mean you have to go solo - other friends, family, even a counselor if that's feasible could be appropriate. Nothing in the line says to cut yourself off from the rest of your support network.

"61.6, changing into 60" - In this case I think the line is essentially reflecting how your genuine emotional needs have somehow ended up down the wrong path in all of this. Don't worry overmuch - that inner truth is a quality *of you* that other people can't really take away. But in this case, because of the circumstances, your needs aren't getting met. So, you need to let it "deflate" - get back into more stable territory emotionally. There's no reason to doubt that life will provide you other opportunities to let your truth shine through sooner or later...

- Jeff
 

auriel

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61.6
"cock's crow pierces to heaven"
{from the rubiyat of omar khyam}:

then as the cock crowed those who stood outside
the tavern shouted: "open up the doors!
you know how little while we have to stay
and once departed may return no more"

ah,the vanity and wisdom and impatience of men-take a caution,miss!
 
J

jesed

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Dear Moonrise:
I have to repeat myself:

"What are you eating for your soul? good feelings/ideas (real food)? or bad feelings/ideas (not nourishment)?

Even more: allowing yourself to be depress, angry, thinking-all-the-time-on-it and so on: is good food or bad food for your soul? "


The most important thing right now isn't him, neither the relationship: Is the way you feel about the situation.

Your later question: In a context of restriction (60) you must get some inner straight (61)

Best wishes
 

void

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Hi Moonrise, have you deliberatly hurt or misled this man or been unkind to him in anyway ? No all you did was feel love for him so what is this great crime you think you have committed ? It seems from what I've read is all thats happened is he feels he can't deal with your feelings for him. That doesn't make your feelings 'wrong'.

Actually I tend to take 61, 6 as the Yi being quite cross and saying 'enough already !!'. As if one is calling and calling after something and Yi is saying 'stop it now, you've made enough fuss, calm down get back to your own truth'. BTW that is only my experience with that line I am not meaning to sound rude to you.

If I were in your shoes I probably would feel very hurt, but don't add guilt to your pain, you did nothing wrong. It may take a while for the wound to heal and I hope it heals soon.
 

moonrise

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Thank you so much, everyone, you've been of great help!

Peace, you couldn't be more right, you described him perfectly. And you helped me...because I see him more clearly now. Yes, it is his way or no way.

I guess I really needed his appreciation badly, I needed him to understand who I am and how I feel. He was something like an authority figure for me and that is wrong...I shouldn't depend on how others see me. I have difficulties with this when men are involved, as I said. I value myself through his eyes and if he thinks that I am not worthy to communicate with than I feel worthless.
I guess this has to do something with my father who is absent...it is difficult for me to find place with men.
My father left before I was born and he left my mum because she got pregnant with him...maybe I do feel guilty about it. I do feel, when it comes to men that I shouldn't be there, I shouldn't even exist...an odd feeling, difficult to describe and which makes me terribly insecure and seeking recognition and reassurance all the time, and apologizing almost even for breathing.

I was afraid I was annoying him even by my presence.

Yes, this was a big opportunity...after all the pain that he doesn't hear me I realized that if has no compassion and understanding for me that is his problem. I felt free, free from his judgment, because that is what was most worried about. That he judges me and thinks I am worthless.
Even if he does that doesn't affect who I am.

And I might have been foolish and unaware but I was sincere.

And yes, the vanity...I guess he is vain, even arrogant but I couldn't see it before. he is intelligent and he's been working with people for so many years...I trusted his insight.

But I do feel that he didn't hear me and understand me...but he is just human.
And you are right, I should trust my inner truth and not make such a big deal out of it.

I feel much better now...freed from his judgement and his authority that I imposed on myself.

Maybe restriction also means: restrict yourself from judgement of others and follow your own truth.

This I feel I can do now.

I will miss him though...he was a very good friend and he did help me enormously, through some very hard times (my mum's death) and to discover more who I am. I still feel love for him and I still trust him. I was just so insecure and scared that I started with all those demands for recognition and acceptance...I can understand that he didn't want to deal with it.

But I respect my feelings too...I was foolish but there was so much love for him and so much trust. There still is.

Thank you again so much, you were such a big help!
 

moonrise

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Hi, everyone who still remember this topic, maybe you will read this
happy.gif


I need to tell you - he responded!!
happy.gif
A little late, but he did!! He understands and he admits that he also can be stubborn
happy.gif

We said goodbye nicely.

Thank you again for your help, if it weren't for you pushing me a little, I would have never written again...and now my heart is at peace.

love
moonrise
 
M

micheline

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So happy for you! Peace!
Interestingly enough, today I thought of you "moonrise" and the thought occured to me that your friend had probably written you back. Then I read on the board that he did...! my intuition is working good!
best of luck to you, moonrise, hope you get the apartment too
 

moonrise

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Really Micheline? That is very good intuition! And thank you for rememebering me!
happy.gif


all the best,
moonrise
 

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