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Yet another round of changes coming

bradford

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Hi all-
Just to announce that another round of revisions to my translation amd commentary is underway. Maybe a month from release (look for 07.2). I've got another week just going through an extensive critique that Denis Mair did. Then I'll go through it all again just to knock down some more of the rough spots.
If anybody has any critical comments to make or things to correct, now would be the time to earn some earnest and undying gratitude.
Thanks
Brad
 

Sparhawk

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Great, Brad! I didn't know you could improve on your translation. I wish I was up to level in my Chinese to contribute something useful.

L
 

bradford

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sparhawk said:
Great, Brad! I didn't know you could improve on your translation. L

People think I'm kidding when I suggest the real reason the authors called it the "Changes".
There is no way to be done with it. Lots of changes so far, dozens in the translation and hundreds in the commentaries.

I hope Lindsay will give me some of the more egregious examples of what he perceives as sententiousness. I know that the kind of fun I have writing does not always strike the right chord, so I'm trying to work on that (but still have that kind of fun).
 

autumn

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I would like to see somewhere in the line commentary the transition to the resulting hexagram specifically addressed. To me- (anyway) there are line commentaries that don't obviously transition into the hexagrams that they do transform into. And yet- there must be a critical connection between the core meaning of the primary hexagram, the line commentary, and the resulting hexagram. I don't feel I understand a line without really understanding why its commentary is part of the primary hexagram, and understanding the basis for its transition into the resulting hexagram. I would like to see that unifying principle diagrammed out- even if it's just in key words- (A) means this. (A line 2) is about this. When the change is over, it looks like this (B).

Hope that makes sense.
 

bradford

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autumn said:
I would like to see somewhere in the line commentary the transition to the resulting hexagram specifically addressed. To me- (anyway) there are line commentaries that don't obviously transition into the hexagrams that they do transform into. And yet- there must be a critical connection between the core meaning of the primary hexagram, the line commentary, and the resulting hexagram. I don't feel I understand a line without really understanding why its commentary is part of the primary hexagram, and understanding the basis for its transition into the resulting hexagram. I would like to see that unifying principle diagrammed out- even if it's just in key words- (A) means this. (A line 2) is about this. When the change is over, it looks like this (B).
Hope that makes sense.

Hi Autumn-
Your question makes sense. It's an awful lot of work!!!
It's not always clear to me what the authors were thinking of either, or that they used zhi gua and fan yao more than part of the time. I might even suggest these methods are not used systematically at all, but only when it suited them, but which was fairly frequently.
If you look closely, though, you will see at the top of each line where the terms zhi gua and fan yao are given, note that some of these are underlined. Where they are, it means that this connection is fairly obvious, and you could use this to train yourself to look for more subtle connections. Also, on pages 17 & 18 of my Dimensions chapter, in the Gua Bian or Hexagram Changes section, all of these "obvious" lines are listed all in one place. Of these, some in the two lists are underlined, indicating that there are footnotes in the Translation / Commentary section that address the connection.
That's probably all I have energy to do. Plus, what I wanted to do in the Translation / Commentary section was avoid standing back and didactically saying "this means such and such ...". Too stiff and limiting, and a big pitfall of most commentaries. Instead I wanted to get inside the words and analogies and act out some of their implications instead, in order to avoid building fences around the line meanings. I tried really hard not to circumscribe what a line "meant".
I did, however, whenever I was able, bury words and images from the zhi gua or fan yao, or my commentary on them, within the commentary text. It's pretty subtle, but hey...
 
B

bruce_g

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Hi Brad,

All good news!

comments…

I use it and like it. It acts as a referee or tie breaker between other sources, including just my memory. I trust your diligence in word and in context, so it makes a fair judge.

Your story commentaries almost always take work to get through. It’s not like sippin’ lemonade in the sun next to the pool. Most of the time I find it very well worth the personal effort. Maybe the rest of the time I’m just being lazy.

I like that it doesn’t box me in. I don’t like being told where to look or what to see or what it means. Hell, that’s the fun part for me – finding my own way. That said, it doesn’t leave me hanging, either. There are clear terms and images to guide me. That’s cool.

I appreciate what you do, and that you’ve generously made it available. Thank you.
 

autumn

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bradford said:
If you look closely, though, you will see at the top of each line where the terms zhi gua and fan yao are given, note that some of these are underlined. Where they are, it means that this connection is fairly obvious, and you could use this to train yourself to look for more subtle connections. Also, on pages 17 & 18 of my Dimensions chapter, in the Gua Bian or Hexagram Changes section, all of these "obvious" lines are listed all in one place. Of these, some in the two lists are underlined, indicating that there are footnotes in the Translation / Commentary section that address the connection.
.

Thank you for this information. I will look more closely at your commentary. This is very helpful.
 

bradford

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Cross-posted elsewhere

I am pleased to announce that all of the work issued from my hermetica.info
site with version numbers smaller than 07.1, all files downloaded prior to Mar 12, 2007,
may now be declared worthless and obsolete, and they should be thrown away now.
Thanks to another two years' growth and generous contributions of constructive
feedback, a new set of revised files is now posted, still free to download. Thanks
especially to Denis and Raul, and others in the acknowledgments.

There are many dozens of changes to the translations and hundreds to the Yi
commentary, plus a number of adjustments in the Chinese characters and in Pinyin
pronunciations as well. It was also proofread by a professional, who caught a couple
of hundred little details that I missed.

I've also added a few link since last month, including to Steve Marshal's new
Unicode version of the Harvard-Yenching Zhouyi.
 

bradford

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No-
All nine sections have been redone.
Redid the Laozi too in January
 

Sparhawk

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Well, I downloaded all nine sections and send them to Kinkos for printing and binding in six books. It cost me $97.00 for those curious. Long overdue and perfect for this new revision. My only regret is that those 97 bucks didn't go to Brad's pocket. Well worth the money and more, IMO.

Luis
 

bradford

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Hi Luis
I hope you find it worth it.
Personally I just let the pdf files live in a folder on my desktop
and open it whenever I need it with Acrobat reader.
It's also possible to print the pages two per sheet and cut the cost in half.
I'm looking into a two volume print-on-demand setup that would let me
market from home or through Amazon etc, but that could still be a
couple of years away.
 

Sparhawk

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I'm looking into a two volume print-on-demand setup that would let me
market from home or through Amazon etc, but that could still be a
couple of years away.

That would be great, Brad! I'll buy those too. Will request a signed copy, of course... :D

L

PD: as for reading them on the computer, yes, I've been doing it for years. A little awkward for my taste though. I think it was time, deservedly so, for them to be more tangible. The new version is a perfect excuse to kill a few trees... :) BTW, I requested it to be printed on 100% recycled paper. So, in reality, no "recent" trees have been harmed in the printing of your work. :)
 

denis_m

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Just read Brad's introduction to the new commentary version. He gets at something tantalizing with the concept of "portmanteau symbols." Apparently, these are two separate symbols/ images which interpenetrate and influence each other. Brad says that such interplay is a common feature of the four "counseling languages" that he correlates: Yijing, Kabbalah, Tarot, and Astrology.

That hits on a fundamental feature of the Yijing. The Yi's structure is good at bringing symbols into juxtoposition, one to one and group to group. It seemingly was set up to riff through such pairings.

I've often been struck by the interchange in meanings between trigrams. It happens between lines too, and not only in the resonant positions.

When multiple symbols are juxtaposed, there must be a field of interchange among their meanings. But that's hard to get at, often buried in structure. It's accessible between one symbol to another, when the two enter into a chain of mutual reinterpretation. Sometimes the relation between trigrams suggests a dialogue, like an explanatory circle---the minimum atomic unit of ideas explaining each other.
It's a great achievment to have worked out correspondences among these symbol systems.
 

Sparhawk

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Perhaps I'm the only one that went running for cover under Mom Google's skirt but, for all the word challenged out there, much like me, a "portmanteau symbol" (borrowing from a PDF file I found in Google and substituting the beginning of the phrase with "A Trigram") is a:

A Trigram is a portmanteau Sign in the sense of Lewis Caroll who created that concept in his poem “Jabberwocky” where one encounters a bestiary of words like “slithy” – a combination of lithe and slimy. A portmanteau is literally a coat and hat rack (also a suitcase), an object designed to hold a multiplicity of objects. Just so, a portmanteau word is a holder of two or more words, each justly truncated to fit with the truncate of the other. A modern version to contemplate is the word “smog” a combination of “smoke” and “fog”.

This was a very good observation. Thanks.

Luis
 

hollis

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Much appreciation

Very much : humbled by, awestruck at, gobbling up, reading readings, appreciating and appreciating and appreciating your work Brad. thank you for making it available to all. Thanks. Muchos Gracias.

:bows:
 

hollis

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Luis

Where the heck is Mercury in your natal chart. So funny always just the right touch. Touche with a heart too.
 

Sparhawk

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Where the heck is Mercury in your natal chart.

No question left unanswered (well, ahem, allow me to take that back; some subjects will remain a mystery... :D) There:

lachart.gif


Mercury is in 24 Degrees Cancer.
Your emotions tend to rule your thought processes. You have difficulty seeing life objectively. You have an excellent memory, especially about things to which you have formed an emotional bond. You prefer ideas and thoughts that are known and familiar, and therefore tend to dislike fads or radical ideas. The beliefs and traditions of your family and culture are very important to you. Your thinking becomes quite unclear when you are emotionally shaken -- try not to make major decisions when you are upset. Let things calm down first.

That's a warning for all of you: don't piss me off!!! I can barely think straight on a good day... :rofl:

L
 
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Trojina

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Hey its the exact same spot as mine :eek:
 

Sparhawk

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Hey its the exact same spot as mine :eek:

Spooky... Although, I'm not sure if the one that should be spooked is you or me. Perhaps the rest should be... If we set up a "Mercury 24 Degrees Cancer" cult we'll be a force to reckon with! :D

L
 

hollis

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?

Hmmm. Still doesnt explain that wit. Luis, I'd say you are OFF the charts!
 

Sparhawk

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Luis, I'd say you are OFF the charts!

Hmmm, have you been corresponding with my wife? Let me tell you something: she's a tad exaggerated ... :D

On the other hand, I did change hemispheres in my mid 20's, so..., everything is upside-down in my life. Even draining water circles the other way up here... :mischief:

L
 

hollis

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ok

If I may be indulged a LITTLE further, I too would like to have Bradford's work in a book. I just don't like looking at it on the computer screen.

How do I send it to Kinkos? What is the protocol. I tried calling Kinkos but I talked to someone who really didnt know anything.

Brad hope you get the hint here, cold hard pennies you could be supplementing your scholarship with. Not all coins are for tossing.
 

Sparhawk

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How do I send it to Kinkos? What is the protocol. I tried calling Kinkos but I talked to someone who really didnt know anything.

Hi Hollis,

Go to this site: https://docstore.kinkos.com/

According to Kinkos, that's the link that works best for printing PDF files.

Upload your files (there are nine of them) and group them. For example, I ended up with 4 bound books. If you don't group them in your order, then don't select any of the binding options in your online order (I should have done that...). Upload them all, one by one, in one big order and select your paper (I really used 100% recycled paper but you can select bond paper, for example) Then you can wait until you go to the Kinkos store and group them there as you like and have them bound.

Once you are ready to check out you will be presented the option of having the docs shipped to you or you can send the order to a Kinkos near you (what I did) and pick them up later. They can have your order ready in as little as 2 hours but the price increases with the priority.

One caveat, and something you must live with, is that the books have no page numbers. The index is accurate though and I ended handwriting the page numbers (odd page numbers... :D) Brad is aware of this, by the way.

I hope this helps.

Luis
 

bradford

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Brad hope you get the hint here, cold hard pennies you could be supplementing your scholarship with. Not all coins are for tossing.

Yes, I'm looking into it now. It'll be 2 volumes over 500 pages apiece. Lorraine Patsco (zhouyi.com) is in publishing and is gradually working out the details of a print-on-demand setup (with ISBN #'s and amazon distribution). Waiting is.

Meanwhile, you might consider printing the thing with a landscape setup with two
pages on a side. You don't want to invest too heavily - the danged book keeps changing.
That's why I forced myself to get used to pdf's
 

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