Yi, Yi, and Yi

ewald · Sep 16, 2004

This morning I was wondering what the Chinese character for Yi meaning Intent would be like, and what it would be compared to Yi meaning Change (as in Yi Jing). I looked them up in the Zendic dictionary and found that these different characters have the same pronounciation (yi4).

I think Intent

gives rise to Change

and that the Yi Jing reflects Intent.

Pondering about how Meaning is inherent in Intent, I wondered if there would be a character for Meaning with this same pronounciation. There was

, although it must be said that Meaning is one of the meanings of the character for Intent as well.

This last character also means fair, just, true. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some consistent philosophy behind these concepts.

candid · Sep 16, 2004

Interesting stuff, Ewald. Would love to hear more.

ewald · Sep 16, 2004

Thanks, Candid.
Some thoughts.

I think the Yi Jing reflects the Intent of who focuses on it when consulting. So I don't see spirits or gods or some other outside force having anything to do with it.
It's seeming to be a sage is just as real as a character in a book, movie or video game: it's the intent of it's creators.

The Intent of everything alive contributes to the world. As Intent is about what's meaningful to each being, this world of myriads of beings is one of Meaning. It's kind of a shared dream, but incredibly more solid than a dream, because of it's incredibly vast history and almost infinite number of contributors. No materialism for me.

As for that last meaning of Yi, things are fair, just and true when all Intent is alligned. I think that's what love and harmony are about.

candid · Sep 16, 2004

Ewald,

Thanks for elaborating further.

Do you consider intent as synonymous with motive?

Not to get tangled in semantics but, motive seems more human, whereas intent seems more about life. I have no trouble seeing Yi as having intent (of Meaning), but I do with Yi as having a motive.

ewald · Sep 16, 2004

I think a motive is a particular kind of Intent. Perhaps 25 line 2 is a warning not to do things just because of a particular motive.

bradford_h · Sep 16, 2004

Hi Ewald-
Generally speaking I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the significance of Chinese homonyms. Of the 90 million plus syllables the human voice is capable of, Chinese uses only 411 to cover maybe 8000 characters. There has to be a lot of widely variant meanings piled onto each syllable.
You are most likely to find significance when there are clear similarities between two characters which are pronounced the same (especially those used "interchangeably" as loans, or shared components other than the phonetic portion, or shared radicals).
Of course, the human mind is capable of torturing significance out of the lay of chicken entrails and tea leaves. And so you will see the more superstitious Chinese people going to great lengths to remove the number four (Si) from their lives because Si also means Death.

candid · Sep 16, 2004

Agreed, 25.2 speaks to pure intent, not to no intent. If we ask as wanting to know pure intent, I believe we get a clear answer. When we are blinded by our motive, we can not see the pure intent of Yi's answer.

dobro p · Sep 17, 2004

"You are most likely to find significance when there are clear similarities between two characters which are pronounced the same (especially those used "interchangeably" as loans, or shared components other than the phonetic portion, or shared radicals)."

Brad, is that what happened in the case of the Mawangdui Yi? It has its uses, but mostly it comes across as a transcription of a botched word-of-mouth transmission.

bradford_h · Sep 17, 2004

Hi Dobro-
I think yours is one of the likelier scenarios for the MWD (Mawangdui) - an imperfect transcription of a short oral tradition, like each person becoming a book in Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, then one of them developing a memory problem.
It was a confusing time just after the Qin. The book burning did all sorts of weird stuff. It also introduced fraudulent and pseudepigraphic texts to the stream.
Then too, folks are always experimenting with their own versions, and sometimes wanting them to survive so badly that they will be buried with them. I often imagine, 10,000 years on, someone digging up Diane Stein's "Kuan Yin Book of Changes for Angry Lesbians", and thinking it has merit simply because of its age.
I found the MWD Laozi texts most useful when it could settle long standing disputes between the Wang Bi, Heshang Gong and Fu Yi versions of the Dadejing. The MWD find wasn't as useful with the Yi because we really have only one received text. But at least it suggested that folks were thinking outside the box of the Hou Tian or King Wen arrangements. And sometimes the differences in characters give up important clues to the meaning of a passage.

ewald · Sep 17, 2004

Thanks Bradford.

So I guess noone here encountered these concepts in some Chinese philosophic text relating them.

dobro p · Sep 17, 2004

"like each person becoming a book in Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, then one of them developing a memory problem."

LOL Or just lack of intelligence problems.

Hear ewe are. Please bare with me. Aisle bee with ewe wen eye have a free moment or to.

Sparhawk · Sep 17, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Hear ewe are. Please bare with me. Aisle bee with ewe wen eye have a free moment or to.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Are you mocking my accent??

L

dobro p · Sep 17, 2004

Not unless you sound like Peter Sellers imitating an Indian person.

Sparhawk · Sep 17, 2004

Close enough, with tinges of Tango and Flamenco...

L

dobro p · Sep 18, 2004

Brad - btw, I just read Fahrenheit 451 for the first time this year. Good stuff. I loved the 'men who were books' at the end.

Have you read one of Leguin's recent books - The Telling? Similar theme, and just as good if not better than Bradbury. But I really like Leguin's stuff.

yly2pg1 · Sep 19, 2004

There is a prolific Chinese Author who writes and evolves his story episodes with I-Ching.
Nicknamed Wong_Yi.
I have been following through his books for the past 10 years. In one of his chapter, he mentions about
his distillation of Yi(Change) (via one of his character), he calls it "the MISSING ONE(?ê )".

When you divine with "Yarrow sticks" (Karcher's I-Ching Kit), you are provided with 50 sticks,
but you can starts only with 49 sticks. Why?
There is a hidden meaning in this practice.

50 denotes stability, when he misses ONE,it will trigger the evolution of events at 49.
The evolution of events does not start with ying and yang.
It starts due to the Missing One.

Yi(Change) always prescribes Hex20 to "note" our real desire and intention, before it furthers the
proliferation of events. Yi_(Intention) provides the fuel for the quantum leap of ONE and
starts a series of changes.

Hence, I-Ching is always the last resort for divination for a rare few some.
And when used, it is divined with the good Yi(intention) for "not-so-good" events.

In my opinion, it is okay to divine with right Yi(intention) to look for the "missing (ONE)",
which will reveal itself as a way out to our own liberation.

...life can be translucent

Yi, Yi, and Yi

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