...life can be translucent

Menu

Coral Anthony & Hanna Moog's Oracle of the Cosmic Way

august moon

visitor
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
I came across Carol Anthony's Guide to the I Ching in a used bookstore and have found her interpretations of the hexagrams immensely enlightening, accessible and applicable. Do any of you folks also find it so? I went to her website and found that she and Anna Moog have another book recently published called I Ching, The Oracle of the Cosmic Way. Does anyone have any comments on this book?
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I never use her books since she just attaches her own philosophy onto the Yi and I feel its not really much to do with the Yi at all. I find especially irritating how she uses virtually every single line of the line to give advice about disciplining ones ego. The Yis much bigger than that. Think of all the questions you could ever ask and she'll bring it down to an ego issue. Trouble is Yis answers are often pretty direct and practical so if you buy into her too much you think everythings about your ego and some complex psycho/spiritual manouevring when it might just be saying 'thats a good idea' or 'thats not a good idea'.

When I first got my hands on it though I thought it was great, it does offer some unique insights, yet its not a book I ever use now, it narrows the Yi down for the reason I described above (IMO)

Lots of people here love it though I think
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Hey we all need to discipline our ego :mischief: sometimes but Anthony is obsessed with it. And when you're asking something pretty mundane like where are my lost keys her hectoring ones ego can be the last thing one needs.

Still to be fair when you ask deeper questions especially about ones own responses then her work has plenty to offer.
 

august moon

visitor
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
You really ask mundane things like "Where are my car keys?' ? :eek:

I asked this morning "How can I disengage without giving up?" And I got 38.1,6 hanging to 40. Now, for instance when I look at 38.6 (from Richard John Lynn's translation of Wang Bi):

"...He sees a pig covered with mud, a cart filled with demons. First he draws his bow but later unstrings it. If it were not for the enemy, there would be a marriage. He should set forth now, for once he encounters rain, there will be good fortune..."

well, frankly, it is not obvious, direct or practical to me in the least. Contrast that with Anthony's:

"...When we let go of our inner defenses and return to an open-minded readiness to see events as instructive of higher meanings, the situation will right itself. We always need to be aware of the emotional perceptions urged on us by our childish heart."

Though if I were asking where I left my car keys, neither would give me much to go on. Except maybe that I should clean the demons out of my truck more often...:rofl:
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I don't personally ask about lost things, but people do. Yes as I said if you are asking a kind of psychological question concerning your personal growth then Anthonys interpretations can fit nice and conveniently. My point is these are her interpretations and as such are fairly limited in scope, they don't give the full range of meaning the plain text has because that is like a poem, the meanings can apply to any situation. The quote of Anthonys you gave above can only apply to psychological/personal growth types questions, or rather its giving you one message only and I don't see it as the Yi but Anthonys thoughts about the Yi. And personally I can't abide the moralising tone but thats just an opinion.

FWIW I see 38 to 40 as quite a nice answer to your question if it is about a specific issue. I see it as saying you meet 'bad thoughts' line 1 don't worry too much you can engage with them, and 6 you need not defend yourself against them so much as think you do, in other words you won't have to struggle to disengage if you allow the engagement you now think of as 'bad' simply to happen it will disappear more quickly since the battle you put up against it will only create resistance and prolong its life. In other words if you have doubts let them come they won't hurt you - the doubts/worries being the swine in 38,1.
 

ashplus

visitor
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Personally I think Anthonys work is spot on. In the end Trojan, it is pretty much all about ego. Aren't most questions "all about me", "how will I be effected", "what will I do". I generally look at Wilhelm and Anthony for a reading and usually Anthonys insight is what I needed, I think she forces you to look at your role in the situation and doesn't stroke the ego as some Wilhelm lines tend to do.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Personally I think Anthonys work is spot on. In the end Trojan, it is pretty much all about ego. Aren't most questions "all about me", "how will I be effected", "what will I do". I generally look at Wilhelm and Anthony for a reading and usually Anthonys insight is what I needed, I think she forces you to look at your role in the situation and doesn't stroke the ego as some Wilhelm lines tend to do.

A simple example of how I meant the Yis a answer are often direct and practical. I asked about some excessive bleeding, got 9,4 and the words are 'blood vanishes', so I don't worry too much and sure enough the problem clears. Not everyone who gets this answer is going to be literally asking about blood, but the Yi seems to be able to give you a direct answer, eerily so, when its relevant to you. If you look at Anthonys book for 9,4 theres yet another lengthy paragraph on ego annihilation etc etc which simply isn't relevant to me, I'm asking about a physical symtom not her philosophy of life. IOW Yi answered me as much as I needed. There may be occasions where her interpretation might be fitting and useful but my point is just that I think theres far more Anthony than there is Yi in her book. And thats fine if you relate well to it or it serves you well at a particular time in your life. August asked for comments, what people thought so I gave mine. I didn't see any instruction these comments must be positive.



Possibly I find constantly fretting over the existence of ones ego pretty futile and vain. One often finds people in certain 'spiritual' groups getting competetive over who is the most egoless which kind of defeats the object. I also find the idea that the ego has to be punished and subdued also full of problems - one then sets one part of the self at war with the other, besides which I doubt spiritual progress can be made by mental games and manouevrings such as these.

I would think when one is ready spiritually the ego structure shifts spontaneously, trying to force it before it is time by holding a big stick and looking down upon it as a wayward child doesn't seem either loving or productive.
 

ewald

visitor
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
510
Reaction score
15
My impression (form a couple of years ago) of Anthony's Guide to the I Ching, is that she kind of sees the ego as the enemy. That's not going to work, as the ego is basically there to protect oneself, so is most definitely not the enemy.

As the ego's protective measures are ones of obscuring feelings and thoughts, what is going to work is taking a real look at those feelings and thoughts. The Yi can help here, but can also hinder. You can use it to help clear things up, or to deal with life without ever examining yourself.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Funny

August didn't ask comments about previous work of Anthony (August already has an opinion about it, since he/she has read it). August asked comments on the NEW work (the one that uses the aproach of the Cosmical Way)

That's why I shared the link to one sample of the NEW work.

Personally, I don't like so much this aproach of the Cosmical Way; seems very diferent to the roots of Zhouyi. But, on the other hand, it may be useful FOR THE ACTUAL culture.

Best wishes
 

getojack

visitor
Joined
Jun 13, 1971
Messages
589
Reaction score
10
I think it comes down to using whichever book speaks to you. If Anthony's work speaks to you, then by all means buy her new book and use it. Knowing nothing of her work other than the link Jesed posted, my first impression after reading the excerpt is that it doesn't speak to me. But then I like books that are open to interpretation and not preachy. Obviously her work speaks to some people and doesn't speak to others.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I came across Carol Anthony's Guide to the I Ching in a used bookstore and have found her interpretations of the hexagrams immensely enlightening, accessible and applicable. Do any of you folks also find it so? I went to her website and found that she and Anna Moog have another book recently published called I Ching, The Oracle of the Cosmic Way. Does anyone have any comments on this book?

Jesed August says of the first book 'Do any of you folks also find it so', hence I think she asking about opinions of the older book also. Besides which her newer work does not seem much different to her earlier work.
 
Last edited:

august moon

visitor
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
This is kind of funny -- you folks are debating what I really mean in my original question like it is some kind of obscure hexagram in Chinese :rofl:

Yes, I'm interested in and welcome reactions to / opinions of either/both books. :)
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
:rofl: well once we get into the mindset everything is like obscure Chinese.
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
I guess I had the same reaction as Trojan. In the beginning, with her first couple of books, you got the feeling that you were going to get somewhere with it, even though the verbiage was quite recognizable as psychobabble. But the deeper I dug the shallower it got and it eventually it all started to feel pretty empty of cogent content. The later books seemed to give only lip service to being about the Yijing. I felt I should have stopped after "Guide to the I Ching" and "Philosophy of the I Ching."
 

hollis

visitor
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
666
Reaction score
7
Personally, I don't like so much this aproach of the Cosmical Way; seems very diferent to the roots of Zhouyi. But, on the other hand, it may be useful FOR THE ACTUAL culture. Best wishes

Hi, can you explain a little how her work differs from the roots of the Zhouyi? That is a fascinating difference, as her work personifies a sage speaking from the IC.

I never looked at her work before this thread, so yesterday I went to a bookstore and found something by her, they did not have the book mentioned in this thread.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Hollis

a) She "discovered" a method while doing meditation. You cast the hexagram, but then you continue doing question for clarification and tossing 3 coins for answer: 3 heads= absolutely right; 2 heads and 1 tail = yes; 1 head and 2 tails = no; and 3 tails = absolutely wrong.

If you follow this, you can get some great clarification; but also you can end in conclusion oposite to the original hexagram.

Of course, this method is not based on Zhouyi, but at most in previous stages of divination (derivate yes/no from one single line)

2.- In the new book, she states that following that method, has corrected the Zhouyi and later undertandings; in some ocasion with an oposite meaning.

Best wishes
 

hollis

visitor
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
666
Reaction score
7
Thanks Jesed.

I ordered the book, it really is a departure.

Their work on hexagram 1 and 2, really different. for instance, the lines in hexagram 1 are seen as abberations from the cosmic ground, distortions of it, quite different from a traditional reading of the lines in hexagram 1.

They sifted through all of their material in this book using this 3 coin method, as you described. In some ways their work reminds me of channeled material.
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
If you're into the Wilhelm/Baynes Yi, then Anthony's pretty useful I think. Her spin on it is spiritual development, basically. And I think she's pretty much into self-control to a degree that's almost punitive; she's got a very active imagination - lots of images come up in her mind all the time - and she uses those to sculpt her mind the way she wants. (I wouldn't trust myself to do that - I mean, do I *really* know what's good for me and what kind of personality I need to have?) She's also a nice person - I met her in London once when she was giving an I Ching workshop. It was a useful introduction to the whole field.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top