...life can be translucent

Menu

The Relating Hexagram

thedave

visitor
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
I've been thinking about this for a long time. What exactly is the relating Hexagram. More insight? If so, more important or less important than the pimary Hex. Does it show how the situation is moving? How things will develop?

How do you interpret it?
...and don't give me some BS about how it depends on the question.

;-)
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
I've been thinking about this for a long time. What exactly is the relating Hexagram. More insight? If so, more important or less important than the pimary Hex. Does it show how the situation is moving? How things will develop?

How do you interpret it?
...and don't give me some BS about how it depends on the question.

;-)

Well, it depends on the context of the question... (below is a place to store this...)

bullshit-bag.jpg


:rofl:

L
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
I've seen at least three ways of reading the relating hexagram on this board. I only use two of them, so I'll describe those.

* Temporal, sequential: the primary hexagram is where you're at now in response to your question, and the relating hexagram is a strong or likely potential direction for the situation as it moves into the future.

* As a qualifier of the primary hexagram. Imagine you draw Hex 5 with Hex 28 as the relating hex. It can be read something like: "Waiting in a way that actually goes well beyond what's normal or usual." Or if you draw Hex 50>Hex 26, it could be read something like: "You're a vessel of inner transformation now, a transformation that involves strong restraint of some sort."

Maybe Hilary will weigh in with a description of the way she looks at it. I think she sees the relating hexagram as the context in which... uh...I forget. Maybe Hilary will weigh in lol.
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
What exactly is the relating Hexagram. More insight?

It would help you understand if you stopped using the word "relating."
This is a bad translation of the word Zhi in Zhi Gua.
Better is "resulting" or "resultant" hexagram, i.e. the result of the changed lines.
In other contexts zhi is also an important particle indicating the possessive,
but here it means becoming, going towards or resulting in.
Its opposite is the Ben Gua, the root or original hexagram.
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
It would help you understand if you stopped using the word "relating."
This is a bad translation of the word Zhi in Zhi Gua.
Better is "resulting" or "resultant" hexagram, i.e. the result of the changed lines.
In other contexts zhi is also an important particle indicating the possessive,
but here it means becoming, going towards or resulting in.
Its opposite is the Ben Gua, the root or original hexagram.

grmm, me having trouble with this, Brad.

Without knowing either translation or definition, I'd still see Zhi Gua more as possessive (as in belonging to) than as resultant (as in future). Granted, it does evolve from the changes in the Ben Gua, but in context of time, it needn't follow. Which means it could come before, after and during.

For me, the relating (I'm still comfy with the term) hex is most often the canvas, and the primary is the painting. Since the canvas is as much a part of the painting as the paint is, they're one.. they possess one another.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
It would help you understand if you stopped using the word "relating."

Well, at least he's not using the word "tendential"... :)

L
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
For me, the relating (I'm still comfy with the term) hex is most often the canvas, and the primary is the painting. Since the canvas is as much a part of the painting as the paint is, they're one.. they possess one another.

IMO, even though I agree with this concept, for me is not the only one. I was half kidding above about it being dependent on the context of the question.

L
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
Well, at least he's not using the word "tendential"... :)
L

I'm thanking my little stone Buddha for that, even if tendential is a lot closer to what the word Zhi means than relating.
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
Is tendential even a word?

Frankly, I don't care what it's called, so long as it works.

Lights a stick of nag champa, to please the stone Buddha.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Is tendential even a word?

Main Entry: ten·den·tial Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: tendenchl
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin tendentia tendency + English -al
: TENDENTIOUS
- ten·den·tial·ly \-chl, -li\ adverb

Mind you, I had to check the M-W before posting the one a few posts back... :D It is a word that is used and abused in the Spanish version regarding "resulting" hexagrams: "Tendencial"

(I expect some rebuttals, of course... :rofl:)

L
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
It is a word that is used and abused in the Spanish version regarding "resulting" hexagrams: "Tendencial" (I expect some rebuttals, of course... :rofl:)
L

Since one of the two core meanings is indicating a progressive direction towards something, "tends towards" or "having a tendency towards" fits rather well. Tendential isn't a word that I know of, but you can see what it means at least. The word "relating," however, simply does not translate the word Zhi, unless you're also doing stuff like redefining the word blue to mean a number between two and three.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Luis

Noticed that you disregard my use of that word (indirectly, not naming me, of course; but who else use it here?); but haven't notice any reason for that.

Even more, in www.e-ching.com time ago "Regreso" quoted Bradford's Matrix about "tendency" for Zhi, remember?. If Bradford uses it is ok, but if Andree, "Regreso" or me use it is an abuse?

:)

Best wishes
 

thedave

visitor
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
hmmm, so I see its a point of contention in the I Ching community. :)
 

dobro p

visitor
Joined
May 19, 1972
Messages
3,223
Reaction score
205
Not contention, really. These guys are discussing the terminology around the concept of what you called 'relating hexagram', not so much what the 'relating hexagram' actually means. I think Bradford's onto something with his translation of the original Chinese term, cuz if he's right then 'relating hexagram' isn't a very useful translation. Maybe 'tending toward hexagram' would be better. Cuz if *that's* a more accurate translation, then it answers your original question, right? It would mean that the heart of the meaning of that second hexagram is the way the situation is 'tending toward'. The only question left in that case is whether the 'tending toward' takes some time to occur (in other words, first the situation is one described by the main hexagram, and then after some time passes it morphs into a different situation which is described by the 'tending toward' hexagram), or whether the 'tending towardness' is somehow built into the present moment (so, if you drew Hex 1>14, it would be describing only the situation in the present moment this way: 'your situation is one in which creative energy is flowing strongly through it in a way such that you have something very valuable - a very important important orientation, attitude or possession, for instance'.)

And if you think that what you've seen in this thread is contention, stick around - you ain't seen nothing yet lol.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Hi Luis

Noticed that you disregard my use of that word (indirectly, not naming me, of course; but who else use it here?); but haven't notice any reason for that.

Even more, in www.e-ching.com time ago "Regreso" quoted Bradford's Matrix about "tendency" for Zhi, remember?. If Bradford uses it is ok, but if Andree, "Regreso" or me use it is an abuse?

:)

Best wishes

Hi Rodrigo,

The focus wasn't Jesed and his use of word (the use is widespread, so it isn't Jesed's problem), but yes, that's the kind of rebuttal I was expecting, not Bradford's, who well explained one of the possible meanings of the Chinese word "zhi." Actually, as you well know, I was part of that discussion (you weren't but Regreso, the other Rodrigo, was) and I was the one that privately contacted Bradford and then posted his opinion, verbatim (Bradford will remember this). When I say that the word is "abused" as a noun in Spanish, is because it is, and the way it is used, the focus is given to that aspect only. "Resulting hexagrams", Zhi Gua, are much more than something that has a "tendency" to happen and that's the contention I have against the use of the word as a describing noun. I don't disagree just for the sake of "disagreement."

That my name is Luis (from the German "Ludwig," from the Germanic name Hludwig which meant "famous warrior", composed of the elements hlud "fame" and wig "warrior") or that yours is Rodrigo (from "Roderick," meaning "famous power" from the Germanic elements hrod "fame" and ric "power"), doesn't make us either "famous", "warriors" or "powerful," or does it? That's the gist of my contention with the use of the word "tendencial" ("tendential" in English and yes, it is a valid English word) as it is being used in Spanish.

Anyone can use any word they want, just don't attempt to sell it as gospel. :)

Saludos,

Luis
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Maybe 'tending toward hexagram' would be better. Cuz if *that's* a more accurate translation, then it answers your original question, right? It would mean that the heart of the meaning of that second hexagram is the way the situation is 'tending toward'. The only question left in that case is whether the 'tending toward' takes some time to occur (in other words, first the situation is one described by the main hexagram, and then after some time passes it morphs into a different situation which is described by the 'tending toward' hexagram),

Oh my!! It is spreading into English....!!! :rofl:

L
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
'tending toward' hexagram), or whether the 'tending towardness'

For the sake of "consistency," let's, all of us, start using "tendential hexagram," please... :D

L
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Luis

When I say that the word is "abused" as a noun in Spanish, is because it is, and the way it is used, the focus is given to that aspect only. "Resulting hexagrams", Zhi Gua, are much more than something that has a "tendency" to happen
Can you elaborate a little more?

"It is because it is" ???? sounds like dogma...;)
What else is "resulting" than have a tendency?

Now, just my understanding (not selling anything): something has a tendency to happen, but it isn't wrote in stone that will happen. That's the value I find in this translation; avoid the mechanical thought: "B is the resulting from A...therefore, since now there is A, it will be B for sure".

Of course, I'm aware that neither Brad nor you use it in this mechanical way. But, for beginers, "resulting" has this risk (and you could find it even not only in beginers, see WF).

To have a tendency of change points to a process that in the present shows one given direction; but you would achieve the destination ONLY if the direction continue.
If you like the Zhi Gua, keep the actual tendency; if you want to avoid the Zhi Gua, change the direction. And that's the real value of Yijing, related other divinations aproach: the real issue is not to know the future (as something that is already written), but information to direct the events in the best posible way.

Of course, there are other views. One that I like, based indirectly in Wang Bi's Zhouyi Lueli, says that Ben Gua reflects qing (translated as "innate tendency" in Lynn; "inner tendency" in Villa) and Zhi Gua reflects wei (translated as "countertendencies to spouriousness" in Lynn; "external stimulus" in Villa). This point of view is closer to Bruce's comment: not as present-future, but as 2 diferent forces within the present situation.

Best wishes
 
Last edited:

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Can you elaborate a little more?

Sure.

"It is because it is" ???? sounds like dogma...;)
What else is "resulting" than have a tendency?

Are you denying it? My only "dogma," if you want to call it that, is that in the Yijing there's no "encapsulation" of meaning around "any" word, be it Chinese or otherwise. Otherwise you DO run the risk of creating a "dogma" around the Yi and that should be avoided. The Yi works for everybody because we are able to freely derive meaning from it. In the case of the "interpretive" structure of the Yi, you ARE introducing "dogma" if you ("you" used here as a generic pronoun, not referring to Jesed per se, in case you get confused...) focus around a given meaning of a word and start saying things like "the hexagram that is created from the changing lines of the hexagram obtained from the casting of the coins or the separation of the yarrow stalks, is called a 'tendential hexagram'" IMO, it is that way of thinking that should be avoided. Then, "dogma" disappears and it is open to everyone.

You said "What else is "resulting" than have a tendency?" I believe that's incorrect. As for "resulting" vs "having a tendency", well...


result
Main Entry: 1re·sult
Pronunciation: ri-'z&lt
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin resultare, from Latin, to rebound, from re- + saltare to leap -- more at SALTATION
1 a : to proceed or arise as a consequence, effect, or conclusion <death resulted from the disease> b : to have an issue or result <the disease resulted in death>



tendency
Main Entry: ten·den·cy
Pronunciation: 'ten-d&n(t)-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Medieval Latin tendentia, from Latin tendent-, tendens, present participle of tendere
1 a : direction or approach toward a place, object, effect, or limit b : a proneness to a particular kind of thought or action
2 a : the purposeful trend of something written or said


You decide which one describes best what happens when a gua changes to another gua (the actual "change", not how it is interpreted, mind you) No one says that someone that has a disease has a tendency to die from it, even though in certain cases it may be a logical conclusion... :D Tendency describes a "progress" and result is "immediate", as when you actually draw the second hexagram from the fixed and changing lines of the primary hexagram. The act of drawing it, right next to the first one, is an immediate act. The time span for that act can be measured in seconds. What takes you to actually draw it.

How you interpret that second hexagram is totally up to you, but if you want to see it ONLY as what the first hexagram "tends to," then you are "encapsulating" the meaning of the second hexagram and that is rigid and perilous.

Now, just my understanding (not selling anything): something has a tendency to happen, but it isn't wrote in stone that will happen. That's the value I find in this translation; avoid the mechanical thought: "B is the resulting from A...therefore, since now there is A, it will be B for sure".

See above, "having a tendency to happen" is fine, only if it is ONE of the possible interpretations of what the second hexagram is. When you tell people that the second hexagram is something like the "tendential hexagram" (sorry guys, it is a literal translation from the Spanish's use of the terms...) you are being biased towards a limiting meaning of what the second hexagram is.


Of course, I'm aware that neither Brad nor you use it in this mechanical way. But, for beginers, "resulting" has this risk (and you could find it even not only in beginers, see WF).

IMO, you are giving beginners too little credit... :D With the exception of the teenage girl that popped up a couple of months ago, most beginners here have read a little of what the Yi is before posting their first message. When "resulting" is mentioned, it refers to the actual change of one gua to another. Gua "A" does result in gua "B" when lines x, y and z change to their opposite. What it actually means in interpretation should remain open and contextual to the question.


To have a tendency of change points to a process that in the present shows one given direction; but you would achieve the destination ONLY if the direction continue.

See, again, that is a biased interpretation of what the second hexagram means... :) Who says that the second hexagram only means the situation towards which the situation described in the first hexagram tends to?

Of course, there are other views. One that I like, based indirectly in Wang Bi's Zhouyi Lueli, says that Ben Gua reflects qing (translated as "innate tendency" in Lynn; "inner tendency" in Villa) and Zhi Gua reflects wei (translated as "countertendencies to spouriousness" in Lynn; "external stimulus" in Villa). This point of view is closer to Bruce's comment: not as present-future, but as 2 diferent forces within the present situation.

Exactly, and I like and respect all of those, as I respect yours. Only I don't want to have someone, not you, nor anybody here, nor any scholar, telling me the "second hexagram" is interpreted this or that way. I rather use all the available information; all the different takes and interpretations, and then, contextually pick what I feel is the best one for the situation at hand.

Saludos,

Luis
 
J

jesed

Guest
But has anybody here had said: this is the only way to interpret? ;)

Now, following your argument, you shouldn' call "tendential", but neither "resulting" or anything. Isn't?

The fact is that you link the use of that word (is just a word, isn't?) with certain circles; and you link your judgment about those circles with the use of the word. Therefore, you never muck on "resulting hexagram" but you do muck on "tendential hexagram"

I understand you (at least I think I do), hope you can undertand that naming the hex "tendential hexagram" is not necesarly what you presume it is.

Best wishes
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
My little stone Buddha is starting to cry

Don't blame me, I'm only the messenger... :D Besides, I thank your little stone Buddha: he may be the only one sane around here... :rofl:

L
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
But has anybody here had said: this is the only way to interpret? ;)

Well, almost...

Now, following your argument, you shouldn' call "tendential", but neither "resulting" or anything. Isn't?

Perhaps It may be a matter of semantics but I'll repeat: "tendential" (sorry Brad, it is in the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary, in the meantime, cover your little stone Buddha's eyes... :D) applied as a name for the "second hexagram," is a loaded and biased name. It is a name that brings a lot of implied, unwelcome and superfluous meaning to that hexagram that goes beyond the mere act of changing a few lines to create it. It is a name that delves into a possible interpretation of the second hexagram. "Tendency" shows a progress towards something and that's not the only way to interpret the second hexagram and thus shouldn't be used as a way to name it. Can't you see what I'm saying?

"Resulting," on the other hand, can be safely used as one such name because the meaning of that can stop at the mere act of writing two hexagrams, side by side, when you convert any changing lines in the first hexagram and thus obtaining the second. It doesn't go beyond that simple act. It doesn't offer any interpretation of the second hexagram and that's a welcome way to name it. Lines x, y and z of hexagram "A" mutate and we "result" in hexagram "B." Right on the paper; flat and in 2D.


The fact is that you link the use of that word (is just a word, isn't?) with certain circles; and you link your judgment about those circles with the use of the word.

Please, Rodrigo, stop talking about "circles" in the abstract as if they were a "Hermetic Fraternity" that you belong to. I have asked you before to name those "circles" but you, by omission or just by ignoring the call, have declined to name it. I cannot judge the "circle" because I'm not officially aware of its existence (I can speculate, of course :D) I only know a "circle" exists and that you and others are members of it so I'm limited to judge and analyze "members" with whom I interact. Perhaps when I know what the "circle" is; when it ceases to be a "hermetic circle," I may be able to figure out what the "circle" is.

Besides, you are mixing two different things. I started discussing the value, or lack therof, of naming something "tendential hexagram," much before I knew a "circle" existed at all, and that you (and "others") were members of it. My argument was and remains objective and semantic and without a bit of animosity against the "circles."

Therefore, you never muck on "resulting hexagram" but you do muck on "tendential hexagram"

I'm not mucking anything. I offered a logical argument against the use of a certain way to name something. There is no hidden agenda there...

I understand you (at least I think I do), hope you can undertand that naming the hex "tendential hexagram" is not necesarly what you presume it is.

Sigh... Brad, I'll send you a box of Kleenex for the little stone Buddha... :D

Luis
 
B

bruce_g

Guest
Jaded Buddhas don't cry.

My circle calls it the “sorta like a canvas, could mean future, but not necessarily, they work together as one, thingy.”
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Yup, it is working here... :D

L
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Luis

Well, this will be my last comment in this thread.

Well, almost...
Please quote when I had almost (????) say there is only way to name or interpret in Yijing. I even use 2 "schools" that traditional have been exclusive one to each other (text based/math based)


"tendential" .... brings a lot of implied, unwelcome and superfluous meaning to that hexagram ... shouldn't be used as a way to name it.
You see... I'm not saying to anyone "you shouldn't use this", neither you shouldn't interpret this. YOU ARE.
But, in yourself image, you are the antidogmatic guy, and I am the mechanical/dogmatic guy.

... as if they were a "Hermetic Fraternity" that you belong to. I have asked you before to name those "circles" but you, by omission or just by ignoring the call, have declined to name it.
Since my first post here, long time ago, I introduce myself saying that I belong to one circle os studies (no cult, no fraternity.. that is inside your head) that claim (and I did say: if you don't trust this claim, I have no problem with that) to descend from the same group where Whilelm and Jung studied together. If you need a "name" or a "trademark", we don't have it. That's why I couldn't answer with a name.

I cannot judge the "circle" because I'm not officially aware of its existence (I can speculate, of course :D)
Ok... when you have an opinion derivated of logical examination, that is called "judgment"; when your opinion is not derivated of logical examination it is called "prejudice". Of course, you won't see yourself as having prejudices, only "speculation". But in reality, even if you say that you can't judge, you already have an opinion. Isn't?

I only know a "circle" exists and that you and others are members of it so I'm limited to judge and analyze "members" with whom I interact. Perhaps when I know what the "circle" is; when it ceases to be a "hermetic circle," I may be able to figure out what the "circle" is
If we are an hermetic circle, how could you suscribe to our forum last days? Because you alreday had sign in www.iching.cl isn't?
What a fraud... an hermetic circle that have a public website, where anyone can sign. Funny, you suscribed to the website of this "hermetic fraternity" before than me

Besides, you are mixing two different things. I started discussing the value, or lack therof, of naming something "tendential hexagram," much before I knew a "circle" existed at all, and that you (and "others") were members of it.
Again, I have wrote about the circle of study where I belong since my first posts here in Clarity. That's why in the first months here, most of the critics against my comments was against Wilhelm (because, I publically linked my learning to a circle linked to Wilhelm)

My argument was and remains objective and semantic and without a bit of animosity against the "circles."
No animosity against the circles?, I don't believe it. I have no problem with someone having problem with them; but I do have problem when someone denies his/her problems, and try to present as "you are dogmatic, I'm objective".

I'm not mucking anything. I offered a logical argument against the use of a certain way to name something. There is no hidden agenda there...
I don't think you have a hidden agenda Luis.

About mucking:
Well, at least he's not using the word "tendential"... :)
Oh my!! It is spreading into English....!!! :rofl:
For the sake of "consistency," let's, all of us, start using "tendential hexagram,":D

About logical argument, it implies no contradiction:
Anyone can use any word they want, just don't attempt to sell it as gospel.
"tendential" .... shouldn't be used as a way to name it.


I'm with you about don't attempt to sell the use of a word as gospel... but, for the same reason, I'm against the prohibition to use some word.

I can give my ideas about why I find a world useful for me; I can give my ideas why I find risky a word for me; but I will never say to anyone "you shouldn't use that word"

Best wishes
 

bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
2,626
Reaction score
410
There is another bit of nomenclature for the Ben and Zhi Gua, one that may be found in the Shujing or Book of History and date from the Early Zhou.
Zhen Gua and Hui Gua are used respectively for original and resultant. Zhen is the same word that's usually translated persistence or determination in the Yijing. Hui is also commonly used in the Yijing and is usually translated "regret." These are assumed to depict the same relationship in time as Ben and Zhi - Zhen being the momentum of the situation, its inertia and therefore its resistance to change, Hui being the decisions or choices to be made for the future and therefore the potential for error and regret.
Zhen and Hui are also used refer to the Lower and Upper Trigram Positions in the hexagram. It is not known which is meant in the Book of History, although obviously those who don't believe trigrams existed yet must conclude that Zhen and Hui are the same as Ben and Zhi. The terms Ben and Zhi are also ancient - at least by the middle Zhou and the Zuozhuan, the phrase Qian Zhi Gou (Qian moving to Gou) indicated Line 01.1.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
I only know a "circle" exists and that you and others are members of it so I'm limited to judge and analyze "members" with whom I interact. Perhaps when I know what the "circle" is; when it ceases to be a "hermetic circle," I may be able to figure out what the "circle" is
If we are an hermetic circle, how could you suscribe to our forum last days? Because you alreday had sign in www.iching.cl isn't?
What a fraud... an hermetic circle that have a public website, where anyone can sign. Funny, you suscribed to the website of this "hermetic fraternity" before than me

Thank you!!! That's exactly what I wanted you to reveal to the public here.


Again, I have wrote about the circle of study where I belong since my first posts here in Clarity. That's why in the first months here, most of the critics against my comments was against Wilhelm (because, I publically linked my learning to a circle linked to Wilhelm)

Rodrigo, I don't follow all your posts... I don't recall noticing when you appeared in Clarity because I was almost absent for about 2 years, reading some posts but posting very little myself. If I didn't I would have more post than Hilary by now... So, I may have missed that. I have heard you say something about Wilhelm before and I correctly assumed that you are hailing from the Ricardo Andrée's "circle". Now that I have an "official" confirmation, since you've always being vague about that fact, I thank you.

My argument was and remains objective and semantic and without a bit of animosity against the "circles."
No animosity against the circles?, I don't believe it. I have no problem with someone having problem with them; but I do have problem when someone denies his/her problems, and try to present as "you are dogmatic, I'm objective".

Where did I called you dogmatic?


[
I] I'm not mucking anything. I offered a logical argument against the use of a certain way to name something. There is no hidden agenda there...[/I]
I don't think you have a hidden agenda Luis.

About mucking:
Well, at least he's not using the word "tendential"... :)
Oh my!! It is spreading into English....!!!
For the sake of "consistency," let's, all of us, start using "tendential hexagram,":D

Oh, that? Well, Luis will always be Luis... :D If it makes you feel any better, I'm an equal opportunity "mucker." Pretty much anyone is a potential target for my "comments" (ask anybody who's been here long enough; start with Bruce, and the man still offers me his house to go and visit --I've always wondered if it is just to bury me in his backyard...:rofl: ) And the same way I "muck" I accept to be "mucked"...


I'm with you about don't attempt to sell the use of a word as gospel... but, for the same reason, I'm against the prohibition to use some word.

Rodrigo, if it makes sense to you, by all means, use it. It is you the one that mentioned newbies and beginners before. Let give them proper credit then and have them go thru some years of study to figure out that the second hexagram not always means something the first one "tends towards"...

Cheers,

Luis
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
107
Funny, you suscribed to the website of this "hermetic fraternity" before than me

BTW --just for the record and for those here that were unaware of such site before--, the forum you mention at http://iching.cl/, is about two weeks old as of today. The site itself, in its present form, is about a month and a half old. And yes, I've been visiting the site since its inception. Obviously, you and the rest of the "circle" have been in contact for much longer. I've only became aware of Ricardo Andree's existence about six or seven months ago. Hard to believe, but I don't keep much track of what Spanish speaking masters are doing with the Yijing. My mistake, of course. Is always interesting to find new visions...

Luis
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top