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Thread: It furthers one to see the great man

  1. #21
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    Don'cha think the term "role model" belongs somewhere in this discussion?
    An exemplar? Someone who's been where you want to go?

  2. #22
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    Yes, of course. That sums it up.

    That's why you go and see the great person. To get yourself oriented properly by being receptive to his/her being. We all know we can't make it on our own. But the Yi points out that in some cases, not only can you not make it on your own, you can't make it by associating with people at your own level of understanding and experience, either.

    A How we gonna do this?

    B Dunno. Whatcha think?

    A We need somebody who knows about this.

    B Damn straight.
    Blessings on your harey lotus feet

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by maremaria View Post
    I visit you site but couldn't find something about it (in English)
    That;s correct, I didn't write anything about it . But in my small Dutch book De I Tjing Stap voor Stap (ISBN 9020201247) I wrote this about it (comparing the 'great man' with the junzi, the 'superior man'):

    In ancient times the junzi was a prince of high descent. We are dealing here with someone who by his descent has been given a lot of responsability. Because of his descent he has a high place in society. This position has not been chosen voluntarily and it is not something he has achiveed by hard work, he only got it because of his high descent. With this position comes a lot of responsability. The junzi is someone who acknowledges and accepts this responsability. Because it is not chosen voluntarily it is connected to his inner being, his own nature. The junzi will try to live in such a way that he can perform the responsabilities that belong to his nature. He is aware of the way he has to go and will not deviate from it. The junzi knows his own nature.

    'The great man' is also someone with a lot of responsability, but he chose for it himself. He knows that his inner nature has te be cultivated, and he has to take care of this himself. The great man is all his life working on the perfection of his inner being by learning lessons and receiving instructions. Because of this the great man often has experience the junzi lacks. The junzi has to make sure his nature does not obfuscate, but the great man has to make his nature clear.

    Harmen.

  4. #24
    meng Guest

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    I take "see" as a double entendre, meaning to go see someone, and also to open eyes and recognize virtue.

  5. #25
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    Wonderful thread!

    Harmen, I seem to remember reading in Rutt somewhere that the king could both make you noble by enfeoffing you, and also demote you from noble to peasant if you lost a battle. So being junzi wouldn't necessarily/ exclusively be something you were born into, even early on.

    BTW, Wu Jing Nuan describes 'seeing the great person' as consulting with the diviner - maybe a related meaning to the official who interpreted dreams?

  6. #26
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    Okay, I've read the thread and all the meanings, and I've decided that 'see the great person' means to go attend a basketball game:

    .身材長大的人
    refers to tall people (duh)
    Blessings on your harey lotus feet

  7. #27
    maremaria Guest

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    Most of the times, I perceived “the great man” as the “mentor”. I ‘m not sure if it is the same as the “role model” Bradford mentioned.

    When we come across with a problem or a challenge, sometimes we feel we need a “swift kick”. A mentor’s presence could give that to us. S/he give us advises, teach us something, or reminds us that we already know what to do.

    In such situations, I feel its hard to believe that we are “the great man” but even if Yi means that, imo, its seems like a warning that we are walking away from the “wise” part of us and wandering without a specific or meaningful goal.

    meng :I take "see" as a double entendre, meaning to go see someone, and also to open eyes and recognize virtue.
    Interesting the two meanings you assign to “see”. Seek for help (from inside or outside) but choose carefully from where you get it.

  8. #28
    meng Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by maremaria View Post
    Interesting the two meanings you assign to “see”. Seek for help (from inside or outside) but choose carefully from where you get it.
    Thanks for leaving out the word "virtue" from my quote; I was just about to edit it out of my post. It isn't "seeing virtue", it's just "seeing", or more specifically, seeing as a great (or as Brad calls it: a mature) person would see.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by maremaria View Post
    In such situations, I feel its hard to believe that we are “the great man” but even if Yi means that, imo, its seems like a warning that we are walking away from the “wise” part of us and wandering without a specific or meaningful goal.
    It might be a warning, or it might be nothing other than something which is very, very useful, like when you want to become a doctor or concert pianist, you need a teacher to show you lots of things you need to know to achieve that goal.

    As for you being the great person yourself, that can be one of the inner meanings for sure. Have you ever come across the idea that higher mind and divinity are part of our being but we don't see it because we cling to lower, egocentric ways of looking and doing? It's more common in places like Buddhism than in Christianity, I think, and of course rampant in newage stuff.
    Blessings on your harey lotus feet

  10. #30
    maremaria Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dobro View Post
    Okay, I've read the thread and all the meanings, and I've decided that 'see the great person' means to go attend a basketball game:

    .身材長大的人
    refers to tall people (duh)
    When I read that in Harmen's post , it came to my mind two tiny and young people, kids to be accurate, that sometimes their wisdom, if it is the correct word, makes you run to hide. They say some simple things that they leave you with the mouth wide open. The best you can say , is "yup, you are right"

    Maybe, if we don't take literaly all those meaning of "great man" Harmen provided us, I see Yi advice us to seek for the greatiness some being have and learn from it. And by Being I mean everything human being or not human being. From a great philospopher to my little nieces.

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