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Hexagram 32.1.2.6 changing to 30 - please help with interpretation...

magdalena

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Does anyone have any experience with hexagram 32.1.2.6 changing to 30 with regards to a relationship question? The question was "Should I leave X?" (I do love him but I am finding it very hard at the moment to communicate with him, feel trapped and feel that we are starting to drift apart)

Please please help.
 

frank

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Hi Magdalena,

32 Has something to do with duration in the long run, and steady progress. But probably is the Yi asking something back at you as 30, the other hexagram is about attachements, and the Yi is asking why you are together in the first place. What is the attachment towards each other, and to get to that answer read lines 1,2 & 6. As I read those lines as YANG lines and the NON changing lines as YIn you then get hexagram 54... probably there is someone not very happy with the restrictions in the bond, and is confronted with limitations in handling...

Line 1 has, in my view here also something to do with instincts, and by dealing with them you go from hex. 32 to 34... Keep your powers limited to a certain limit so you can handle them. Is there no equality in the communication or is some of you more dominant in the relationship? Then the Yi is probably saying that the one who is more dominant should sacrifice some energy (34)...

If line 2 changes (of 32) you then get 62... So there is something about limitations in doing things again, after the 34 in instincts on line 1, it's more feeling insite at line 2... The difference between line 1 and 2 is that 1 is about instincts we all have, so more about something in commen with others and adviced to handle it better, as the line goes from yin to yang, at line 2 it is about something especially of yourself, as 2 is personal emotions and feelings, and by changing that into 62,the Yi is asking to limit those emotions first before you move...

Line 6 is about the upper knowledge in all of us, as we have standards and ways of behaviour like everyone else. You do not robe a bank, steal from people or hit a child, etc (I hope...) Those are standards and values... Perhaps line 6 is about your standards and values within the relationship and the Yi is asking you to look at them, as you are probably wandering 'what others would say about it', and that is making you doubtfull. By changing line 6 of 32 (only!) you get hex. 50... The Cauldron. The Cauldron could be the symbolising the relationship you want to have...

The Chinese characters of 32 and 30 are about 'getting things done in the long run' and 'wanting to go, but afraid too...' respectfully. So there is something about the nerve to do so, too...

I hope I made some sense what so ever.

Hang in there,

Hug.
Frank
 

magdalena

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Frank, this is amazing. Very accurate indeed. I'm not happy with the restrictions in the bond (I'm currently studying hard and will be for the next two years and I find it so hard to concentrate on my studying and having to look after his two kids who stay with us every weekend). There are also communication problems at the moment, he's been hurt in his marriage so is afraid to show me the love I so crave and I get more and more detached as a result of it so we are in a viscious circle here. There is also a lot of truth in "wanting to go but afraid to"... I still deep down hope for a miracle to happen so that we both feel happy and fullfilled together, for some walls and inhibitions to come down...

What in your view is the answer to my question though?
 

void

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Hi, over the years when I've had 32,1 its meant it really isn't time to make a decision, to try and fix things in a permanent way. I get it often at times I think I have a solution to something and want to implement it immediately, with too much haste. In retrospect I'm always glad I waited awhile, even if things look unsatisfactory and no progress seems to be occurring, because eventually a better solution is found.

Overall I think your reading could be read as not trying to force a solution at this time, and 32,6 'calm down and stop fretting'. Perhaps you are placing a sense of urgency on yourself at the moment which is not really necessary - there is plenty of time to think, it may be best just to let things be for a while. Solutions will then appear when you are not stressing so much.

So I think in answer to your question its not a great idea to leave as its actually a precipitous act.

(I guess its just possible also its referring to the past, if you feel now you rushed into the relationship too quickly. However you did not ask about the past so I presume it refers to your current situation.)

However I could be totally wrong, thats just the way I see it, so please just take it as an opinion among many. If you get calm within probably you will know in your heart what you want.
 

frank

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Hi Magdalena,

First I think I already gave you some kind of answer in my first post on that question of yours...'What in your view is the answer to my question though?'..... Try to look at, and beyond those attachments... But let me try this one...

32 is about a duration... a bond... a long bond... To hold that to the end, work is to be done. I'm still convinced that romance should be a very important part in the relationship but as it is 2006 already there will be at least NO knights on a white horse... well, at least in a white Volvo or so... :-D, but... these days people are more looking at the money, at safety, at peace in the house, peace in the bank-account, peace in the job, and less about 'do we realy like each other'... They are not very amuzed by the idea that getting a bond in the long run is actually hard work... No, they want there dreamdate brought to them on a diner-plate :-D (yes, please). But to my own frustrations too.... IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY... so... 32 is about how it is working then...

"Constancy... a sacreficial OFFERING..., no inauspicious omen. Profit the divination. Advantageous to have a place to go to". (translation Wu Jingnuan)

There is talk about sacrifice... Well, you sacrificed time, energy, money and concentration (and perhaps a headache or two...) on dealing with your own things as the study and being in a relationship with a man and two children (man, that's tough... yes, it is tough... I do not deny that :-D. IT IS TOUGH. BUT...) The Yi is actualy saying here that you are already doing a great job, in giving sacrifices and hold on to a goal ('a place to go'). As this was a question about leaving a bond with someone the Yi is talking back at you by saying... hee girly, I know it's tough and about sacrifices, but what is your maingoal here? Where do YOU, or you both in the relationship want to go for?... By remembering your goal for yourself or for you both new energy starts to come back again to work on those goals, instead of the details who are actualy roadblocks on the way towards the goal... They are 'just challenges'... They keep you awake by asking yourself over and over again...'where I'm I, or are we standing here... and now... where are we?'And by looking to the goal instead of walking away from it you will get perhaps a better communication as that is actually the reason why you want to leave anyway...

Line 1 is warning you for being to much busy with the details...:'Digging constantly, divination: misfortune. No place is profitable". Line 1 is taking you to hex. 34... Keep your instincts and low wishes in control... Do not go for the details, but for the long run... as the image of 34 says: 'so the noble one does not go following roads that are in a contrast to the order'...

Line 2 then will teach you patience... and 'Regrets vanish'... (it will take you to hex. 62... low nest... no high goals... stay low... Do not look to far, the solution is already there... in front of you...)

Line 6 then is again warning you no let go the anxieties in the head, as the upper two are about heaven-lines, and connected to the head, and the way we are thinking... "Shaking constantly. Misfortune"...

I do not think that this is about 32 now, and 30 later... somehow at least lines 1 & 6 already are moving NOW... Digging and Shaking is something you are already doing... So perhaps some regrets are already vanishing these days?

You know... The Yi is also very good for contemplation... meditating on different levels in a way like 'supose if...' Well, supose line 2 was not in order... you had only lines 1 & 6... then by making changing lines YANG... you get hexagram 27... The hexagram about nourishment between two people, and again the question back at you: "What is the attachments, nouirshments and that what connects you both"...??

BUT that's not the case, as line 2 IS involved, and by changing then the changing lines into YANG you get 41.... Increase. You are not confronted with limitations on nourishment but just with confrontations.. period.... it is not about HOW you get confrontations... it is that you DO get them, and the Yi is telling you how to deal with them. Is it just you or you're thing to run away when you are confronted with something? Well, the Yi is just letting you know then that that's the easy part... You have to learn the tough part :-D! Do NOT run away from it... This is a great opportunity for you to learn and get over anxieties, and deal with confronations, and not running away from them, but ON THE LONG RUN, deal with them, become friends with them, as they do just belong to your way of life, to your life at all, period, and it's ok to have them... So I guess, by looking at this answer, and by looking deeper and longer, this is way beyond the question you asked in the first place already... But that's the Yi alright... And you did not get 32 for nothing... 'Learn how do dig (wind) and not get frightned (thunder)'... Then at least you will find out why the sun is shining anyway (30, two times fire, the sun...)....

And now I end this again hoping that I made some sense of this peace of <bleep> :-D...

I realy should start making money out of this... (sigh :-D)...

Hug,
Frank
 
B

bruce

Guest
LOL, Frank, people are much fussier, critical and demanding if they pay. Keep your day gig, man.
wink.gif
 
B

bruce

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Btw, that wasn't meant as a commentary on your interpretations, which I think are quite good.
 

magdalena

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Ok, ok I get the picture!

Frank, you know, you really should start making money out of this. This really is good stuff. Gosh how more spot on can it get... Re: your comment on 32, I'm currently right in the middle of realising "THAT IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY" indeed. I've stopped accepting any financial help from him although it's tough hoping that we manage to break some bad habits of his here as he is used to compensate for his lack of emotional support by giving money/presents etc. Lack of patience and overanalysing that's definitely my domain as well as is running away from problems (in relationships I'm always the one who leaves). Well, if this relationship is the one I'm supposed to be learning from the Yi has really picked a good one to practice my patience on as the situation is as hard as it gets (full-time study... not just study, medical study!, the kids who are just turning into teenagers and a boyfriend who has emotional baggage the size of London). IT REALLY IS AS TOUGH AS IT GETS. But I humbly accept your advice and will try to go through it as well as I can hoping to see the light at the end of the tunnel eventually.

Void, many thanks for your comment as well, which also confirms what Frank is saying.

Thank God for this website.

Good luck to me.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Magdalena

"Should I leave X?"

Answer: "Thus the superior man stands firm and does not change his direction"

Leaving him is "change your direction".. so: don't do it

Best wishes
 
B

bruce

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Unless Magdalena's prior direction was to leave. In which case, leaving is standing firm in her direction.

In either case, any time you allow Yi to make your decision for you, you are risking losing "your" direction.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Bruce

yes, I know you have an issue with that ("my decision")... and is ok. Again, we are seeing diferents things behind the same words.. and having the same jugement at the end.

According with traditional teachings, there is a Naural path of the Cosmos (and natural path is not the same than "moral"). Even "Heaven" and "God" corresponds to Natural Path; of course, men and women do the same.

But everything CAN follow that Natural Path or not follow it; of course, it means men and women can follow or not follow the Natural path. Even more, one can follow the Natural path by own's decision but also can follow Natural path without own's decision.

The most important use of Yi Jing, according with traditional teachings, is to know the Natural path of any situation in order to adapt own's decisions with Natural path. Not because a moral obligation, but because a practical interest: if I follow the Natural path of this situation, i can achieve a better outcome.

So, when the answer of Yi Jing is an advice, is not a moral advice, but a practical advice: "the Natural path of this situation leads to.... so the best thing to do in order to act according with the Natural path is....".

This doesn't means that Yijing decides instead of you. You always decide (follow the advice, or not follow the advice). The use of Yi Jing is allows us to make better decisions. We always do the decision.

In this case, is not that Yi Jing decide instead of Magdalena. Is only the advice that the decision wich corresponds better to the Natural path of her situation is not changing her way. She, after knowing this, have the chance and the necesity to take her own's decision.

And of course, if magdalena had already made a decision (leave X), is pointless to consult the Yijing. And even so, the question is not "what do you think about my decision" but about his matrimonial sitution. So the answer is not about an idea but a matrimonial situation.

(To avoid misunderstandings; I'm not saying that every time the solution is "not leave". I'm not against divorce. Actually, I had suggest divorce to people many times. Is only this particular reading).

Best wishes
 
J

jesed

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ps.
maybe an analogy:

If an electrical machine incluedes the advice: "Don't touch the cables when working", is not that the machine decides instead of you that you shouldn't touch the cable.

Is just the practical consecuence of the natural path in this situation: the nature of electricity, the nature of conductivity of the cable and the nature of our body would lead to an electroshock if you touch the cable when the machin is working.

But, in the end, is your choise
 
B

bruce

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Hi Magdalene,

For what it?s worth, I?m seeing this whole thing a bit differently.

Rather than Yi ?telling? you the ?right? thing to do, I see this reading advising the way to attain an enduring state of mind, with steady personal principles, from which your own decision can be made with greater clarity (30).

This is your life. Not Yi?s and not any interpreter?s view of what is indisputably right.

You might try looking at the lines in this light.

Line 1: A hasty decision creates nagging doubt later.
Line 2: Let go of past regrets, and take a fresh look.
Line 6: Calm down!
happy.gif


30 is the desired end and the means by which to achieve it.
 
B

bruce

Guest
Hi Jesed,

My issue, as you call it, is in rigid interpretations. The lowest form a relationship between heaven and earth can have is that of master/servant, IE: Moses and the tablets of commandments. For someone who must be told the right thing to do, this type of relationship is better than no relationship. But it is a poor substitute for a relationship which lives according to personal values, freedoms and choices.
 
J

jesed

Guest
In your last post... attain a enduring state of mind ios presented as "the right thing" to make a decision, right? ;)
 
B

bruce

Guest
What are you arguing, Jesed?
howmuch.gif
An enduring state of mind is a condition, which is expressed in 32.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi bruce

I'll try to explain myself better.

Of course, I'm not saying that "enduring state of mind" is not present in 32

Is not about this, but about "advice" "right thing to do" etc

In the way I understand the reading (and I'm not saying that is the only way to do that), the advice is "not change your matrimonial situation"

You said a)that would be "Yi saying the best thing to do" b) Yi doesn't say the best thing to do and c) Yi is "advising the way to attain an enduring state of mind, with steady personal principles, from which your own decision can be made with greater clarity"

I won't contradict that attain an enduring state of mind is a good advice.

But, if this is an "advice" from Yi, that would be Yi saying that the right thing to do is attain an enduring state of mind, with steady personal principles, from which magdalena's own decision can be made with greater clarity

And then, you could say again that it is not correct, because Yi doesn't see the right thing to do
happy.gif


That's all. At the end, let's magdalena use what it could be useful for her
 
B

bruce

Guest
Ah, but, matrimony to whom or what? Her boyfriend? Her fears? Her false sense of obligation? Her doubts? Or - her own steady balance and presence of heart and mind?

According to you, Jesed: ?Answer: "Thus the superior man stands firm and does not change his direction. Leaving him is "change your direction".. so: don't do it.?

What if a woman received this same reading who was involved in a horribly abusive relationship? Would your definitive Answer stay? If not, then the answer isn?t as definitive as you make it sound. If so? well, I?d rather not answer that.
 
J

jesed

Guest
well....
a) I had never find Yi jing answer 32 as an advice about abusive relationships.
b) I do had find Yi Jing answer as advice to quite abusive relationships (most of the time with 23, 33 and 40 and 64), or controling the abuse (most of the time with 9 and 60)
c) I doubt that I'll ever find Yi Jing answer with 32 as advice related to abusive relationships
d) If ever happen that speculative hipotesis, I'll post here the way I understand that reading

happy.gif
 
B

bruce

Guest
Well, we have diverged to theoretical discussion here, Jesed. But if you can't answer my question directly, I understand. Give it another thirty years.
biggrin.gif
 
J

jesed

Guest
Bruce

The question was theoretical, and was your question:
"What if a woman received this same reading who was involved in a horribly abusive relationship? Would your definitive Answer stay?"

I was "polite" in my answer.

Straight answer: This hipotetical case (a woman received this same reading who was involved in a horribly abusive relationship) won't happen.
 
J

jesed

Guest
of course, if I'm wrong, and actually happen that a woman involve in a horribly abusive relationnship receive this same reading, I'll come to the forum to acept my error
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Bruce

I think i had misundertand your last post.

To avoid misundertandings.

If the "direct answer" you want wasn't to the hipotetical question, but to the the first
"Ah, but, matrimony to whom or what? Her boyfriend? Her fears? Her false sense of obligation? Her doubts? Or - her own steady balance and presence of heart and mind? "

I had find useful (not theoreticaly but empiricaly) to understand the answer at the light of the question (am I crazy for doing that?)

And the question wasn't about leave her fears, her "false sense of obligation", her doubts neither her own steady balance and presence of heart and mind. The question was about leave her boyriend.

So, I read it as leave her boyfriend.
 
B

bruce

Guest
LOL, 30 sounds like a good number.

But seriously, Jesed, not to be snide or such, 30 years ago my way of seeing these things was so much like yours it's spooky. I've made a lot of poor decisions following what I saw as the letter of the law in Yi, and it's taken a long time to get it through my cabeza that Yi is far more fluid and subtle than I had previously thought.

30 years from now I'll likely be over yonder, but if I can, I'll be sure to swing by the forum and check out your translations.
wink.gif
 
M

micheline

Guest
well, Jesed and Bruce, interestingly enough, I recently had a friend ask me to do a Yi reading about an unhappy relationship of sorts. She wanted to know if it was "her destiny" to endure the things which were so bothersome to her now.

I dont feel it is anybody's "destiny" to endure unhappiness, but I kept quiet and asked the Yi for her. The answer was 32.2.3.4 to 2. At first glance, I was alarmed and startled. It sure seemed like a reading that said "yes, this condition needs to endure -32 as a destiny- 2."

The I looked at Lise's site and suddenly a whole new understanding emerged. This woman's condition WOULD endure if she were to keep wavering and losing sight of her goals. she cant blame the field if there seems no way out, she has to blame the unsteadiness of her own heart. even with line 2, it meant that she needed to keep steady in order for her regrets to vanish. She is being passive to a way of life (that doesnt happen to suit her), and it will continue unless she steadies the helm of her heart and follows her inner compass.

magdelena's lines were different. In magdelena's case, I suspect the reading is saying that in her heart she does not WANT to go....I wouldnt read it as advice NOT to go....even if her relationship was terribly wrong and abusive, this reading would not be saying "don't go"....it is simply saying that the condition subsists because this is where she has chosen to endure/stay/ subsist. she is in a synergystic relationship here, where for reasons good or bad, she is involved and interacting. 30.

If I were magdelena, understanding it this way is key. I would ask myself why I am choosing to stay and make peace with that...OR...decide to be more honest, perhaps, about what I really want and then move accordingly. The reading is simply reflecting her current choice. Maybe, in all honesty, she just wants to stay regardless of how hard it is. And that's okay! BUt the Yi is not telling her to do either, IMO.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Hi Bruce

I'm sorry that you had make poor decisions by following what you saw as the letter of the law in Yi. (And I'm glad that your interpretation hd been improved since.)

But, that first statement suggest me that your path 30 year ago wasn't too similar to my actual path as you believe. Honestly, the last 31 years I had never find that I made a poor decision after interpreting a consult for myself.

best wishes
 
B

bruce

Guest
Jesed, you began consulting Yi at birth? LOL

Anyway, I wish you the best in all things.

Magdalena too.
 
J

jesed

Guest
Bruce...

you believe "Age 31" in profile is 31 since birth?

hadn't ever hear about the "age" as the time of being studying?
 

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