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the rescue in 52.2 ?

Trojina

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Wondering if the idea of not being able to 'rescue' another is a really fundamental part of 52.2 ? I assume 'rescue' must be in the original chinese as most seem translations seem to use the word ?

I'm asking as it puzzles me in my own experience certainly it seems a line of not being able to make a connection, not being happy about it ,"your heart is not glad" (Hilary i think) but i never can see any rescue aspect at all ...

So do you think rescue is very much part of 52.2 ?
 

charly

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Wondering if the idea of not being able to 'rescue' another is a really fundamental part of 52.2 ? I assume 'rescue' must be in the original chinese as most seem translations seem to use the word ?

I'm asking as it puzzles me in my own experience certainly it seems a line of not being able to make a connection, not being happy about it ,"your heart is not glad" (Hilary i think) but i never can see any rescue aspect at all ...

So do you think rescue is very much part of 52.2 ?
Trojan:

52.2 W/B: keeping his calves still. He cannot rescue him whom he follows. His heart is not glad.

About «being able» W/B interpolates the verbe CAN. In chinese text there is nothing about ability. Then it cann't be fundamental.

«Rescue» can be in the chinese text, but the word ZHEN has a wider meaning indeed.

The problem is that nobody know with accuracy what GEN means. Interpretations work around the image of MOUNTAIN. I believe, like W/B, that GEN is a verb, maybe not KEEPING STILL but KEEPING HIGH.

see the chinese text:


gen4 / a divinatory sign / KEEPING STILL
qi2 / his / her / its / that / HIS
fei2 / calf of leg / decay / protect / CALVES

bu4 / not / no / [HE CAN]NOT
zheng3 / to raise / to aid / to support / to rescue / RESCUE
qi2 / his / her / its / that / HIM
sui2 / to follow / follower / [WHOM HE] FOLLOWS

qi2 / his / her / its / that / HIS
xin1 / heart / mind / HEART
bu4 / not / no / [IS] NO
kuai4 / fast / quick / swift / GLAD

Take apart the enigmatic «gen qi fei», in the nexts paragraphs there are three interpolations (1), two of it not trivial that twited the straightforward text:
  • HE CANNOT instead of NOT
  • WHOM HE FOLLOWS instead of FOLLOW or FOLLOWER

I believe that a more literal translation give us a good sense:

Not supporting your follower, your heart (is) no smart.

→ if you're smart you must support your follower.
→ if you don't support your follower your heart is not enough intelligent (2)

zheng3 has a wide range of meanings:

  • to raise
  • to aid / to help
  • to support
  • to rescue
  • (maybe more)

The structure of the character is suggestive:

at the left HAND → protection → outer protection → male protection
at the right TO HOLD / TO BEAR, that has two hands holding a baby , the hands are almost wrapping the baby → doble protection → inner protection → female protection

PROTECTING THE ONE THAT IS PROTECTING THE SEED!

Now we know who is the follower, the follower is the wife / mother, anybody that do not protect her has a foolish heart.

The character gen4, divinatory sign has BIG EYE over TWO LEGS, a person, someboy alert like a zuricata, a lucid person, an aware heart.

Temporary I render gen qi fei as
  • STOP THE CALVES (AND THINK) or
  • KEEP YOURSELF HIGH ON YOUR CALVES (AND OBSERVE)

Maybe 52.2 is speaking of the rescue of ourselves.

Yours,

Charly


__________________
(1) I put interpolations between brackets []
(2) B. Bethelheim says that love is not enought, a well informed heart is needed.
 

fkegan

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Hex 52.2 >> 18

This hexagram refers to taking a stand or standing in your own fixed place. This line comes to rest or take its stand both in relation to its position in order from 1st to final or toes to head AND also in relation to the Yang line (3rd place) it follows. The result is its judgment of the calves coming to rest as the leg keeps going. The notion of rescue or more exactly not-rescue creeps in with the idea that this line has figured something out and realized it should stop but it is in no position to communicate or control the overall momentum which will not only continue, but due to the calves stopping will trip.

Not-Rescue is very much part of this line though I am not clear if rescue is. This line, as you note, comes up when your realization or insight which has caused you to keep still or otherwise stop being part of the general momentum about you, can not be communicated or made into positive change. Instead, you are only able to step out of the ongoing motion, be unhappy and watch things continue on without you and very well take a bad turn.

To the good, when this line changes the resultant hexagram 18 does indeed deal with improvement of a bad situation. Things don't get resolved all at once. This line deals with some awareness of a problem, but not enough to make a change let alone effect a 'rescue.' However, by its change the entire situation changes --if nothing else the momentum of the whole runner is thrown when he falls--and in the aftermath of the entire change then improvement may set in.

Frank
 
J

jesed

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Zheng 3:
help(ing); relief; aid; assistance; helpful

(from Bradford's Matrix)

I would say that every rescue involves help and assistance; but not every help/assistance involves a rescue

Best
 

Trojina

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Very interesting replys thanks. So the pain in 52.2, and i reckon theres certainly emotional discomfort but at a different pitch to 52.3, is more about accumulated momentum in a certain direction that is not heading anywhere fulfilling but can't be stopped just like that either. My question came from the sense I could see this aspect of 52.2 but trying to help or rescue someone/thing never came into it as far as i could see.

I didn't think to look at the fan yao, don't know why..18.2 being gentle like a mother in correcting faults - or correcting the faults from the mother however you see it. If 52.2 is the kind of reverse of that ...well you can't put it right i guess you have to go through it. Seems in 52.2 theres no advice for you to stop, it seems you can't. Its seems like a situation you don't much like but have to go through even if your heart is 'not glad'

But the word aid/help/rescue is in the line it seems, but I don't see it in my own readings over some time. In my own readings it generally seemed to apply to something where a relationship/situation wanted just couldn't work out for various reasons but there remained a strong propelling forward motion in the direction of still wanting it to work even knowing quite well its a no no.. aargh heart pain..no rescue stuff though. You know maybe its just you can't rescue your own heart/motives, that which you follow hmm as someone above may have suggested ...in that case it makes alot more sense to me. You can't save that part of you which is bound to following another rather than you can't save the other. Well sometimes it applies to another of course but also can apply to self perhaps
 
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Trojina

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Odd conclusion.

'Stilling the calves' is stopping.

Yes there is stilling in 52.2 but as the heart 'is not glad' then this stilling does not reach very far, there isn't peace of mind. One is stopped but is still wanting which isn't really being still at all. Stilling the calves doesn't go far if the rest is aching to go - but no one doesn't go, so in that sense there is stillness, but its uncomfortable
 
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maremaria

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Maybe I’m wrong because never had 52.2 but it reminds me a meeting I had with a friend some days ago. She lost her newborn child and i went to see her. I tried to support her as much as I could but I know I can't help her more. How she will recover from that loss is something she can only do. I felt like I couldn't move. My hard is not glad because I know she has a hard time and really confushed but there is nothing more I can do to help her except for just been there.
Maybe it is the time you see someone you care about a lot , and want to take the pain away from them but you can’t . or you see doing something wrong and want to stop him but you can’t . Its not possible .

Just a thought …
 

Trojina

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Maybe it is the time you see someone you care about a lot , and want to take the pain away from them but you can’t . or you see doing something wrong and want to stop him but you can’t . Its not possible .

Just a thought …

Thats the usual interpretation, thats why i posted. I never found,over many years, in my own experience this line to have anything to do with wanting to take pain from another or wishing to stop someone doing something harmful. Lots of frustration and sadness yes so I can see 'heart not glad' but it was the whole 'rescue'/wanting to rescue' bit I was wondering about. All I'm saying is in my own experience 52.2 doesn't correlate with the situation you describe with your friend. I know that situation well, know how it feels but when I've gotten 52.2 doesn't seem to refer to that at all. Of course my experience isn't the be all and end all for my understanding, doesn't mean 52.2 can't be about rescuing..but many times over the years I've noticed in my own readings it just hasn't been so was wondering if others had observations or experience about it....

afterthought....unless there was an element of rescue and i didn't realise it i suppose...now theres a thought...certainly wasn't a conscious one at the time.
 
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meng

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For me, this line has been when I was energetic, my natural energies were in forward march. But since it was a time of 52, that forward motion would only be clumsy and disjointed. But, keeping still didn't make me happy either. It's one of those "grmph" moments.
 

hilary

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From Diana ffarington Hook, The I Ching and its Associations:

"Someone had just experienced a very bad fall, slipping on a polished floor and banging his head on it so badly that he was knocked unconscious for quite a time. Because he believed in synchronicity and that there is a reason and time and place for everything, he was interested to hear what the I Ching had to say about the reason for the fall.

Answer: 52.2 to 18

Interprentation: ...the answer is very apt, for it merely states that he should have kept still!

Moving line: This indicates feet moving restlessly, unable to be kept back, running ahead of thinking processes by which they should have been controlled. The man remembered that at the time he had been in a great hurry. This was certainly a very down-to-earth explanation.

Outcome: Hexagram 18 refers to removing decay. The mat on which he had slipped was removed from its dangerous position in the passageway, and instructions given that the floors should not be so highly polished in future."

Visualising this poor man with the rug slipping away from under him gives me quite a clear picture of the line: his feet stopped, or going backwards, with his centre of gravity still going forwards. So it's not always someone else who isn't rescued: sometimes it's your own momentum. (I seem to remember Brad says something similar.)

The 'following' seems to me to be an 18-ish ingrained impulse, and the line warns that there will be no help from above, no mother to snatch up the toddler before he falls, no deus ex machina, to save one from following through. Stilling your calves, as the man on the rug discovered, is not enough.
 

Trojina

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Sounds like its too late to do anything at all except fall then ? Or I wonder if one can still save oneself by stilling more than the calves, stilling the mind to begin with. The rug example is clear enough but how would that be applied to emotions I wonder.
 

dobro p

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Twilight, I see more than one plausible interpretation of the 'generic' meaning of 52.2, and Wilhelm's is one of them. Not the only one, but one valid one. I'd say don't throw out any of them, but keep them all handy and wait and see which one comes forward first the next time you draw this line.

One interpretation: it's entirely possible that stilling the calves leads to or involves or causes the lack of rescue/help/assistance, which in its turn leads to or involves or causes the 'downheartedness' of the last part of 52.2. But my best guess is that the downheartedness arises because of the lack of help/rescue. If that were the case, then the big question would be the relation of the first line to those other two. Does the lack of rescue and ensuring downheartedness arise because of the stilling of forward movement? Or is the Yi suggesting that you halt forward movement, because that's the best way to deal with the lack of help and downheartedness that's arising now exactly BECAUSE there's too much forward movement?
 

Trojina

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In practice the advice of this line is simply to stop. The business of calves not stopping thighs, leading to a fall, is overinterpretation and nothing to do with the line at all. With all this difficulty about the meaning of 'stilling his calves', which is as simple as anything, I wonder whether we will ever get on to the much more interesting question over who is sad and why, since that's another old misinterpretation that's been taken for granted but no-one seems much interested in.

Its not that I'm not interested its just i know in the instances of my receiving it over the years it is I who am sad and I know perfectly well why. But sad i can't get what i want rather than sad to do with not being able to rescuing anyone/anything...which is what prompted my question. I find sadness the very real part of the line cos I feel it thats why i didn't need you to say who is sad - though you mean 'who' as in relation to the whole situation and I'm looking at from within so theres a different perspective.

Though as I posted here rather than shared readings I am interested in what anyone has to say about the whole business of stopping, falling - or not and being sad.

I can't translate the rug situation Hilary described to feelings very well. I imagine its something like one knows ones feelings are headed in a wrong direction but their sway is so compelling one gets swept up by them anyway, doesn't pull back and feels sorrow. If more reticence or more restraint were shown in ones own emotions perhaps the sadness would not be suffered....but 'stopping' emotions isn't that easy
 

hilary

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I imagine the sadness as a kind of sinking feeling when you realise you can't salvage things completely. Some of it maybe, but not all, or not everyone. If you could view your feelings when falling in slow motion, it might go something like this. There's certainly a nasty moment of realisation that you're going down and can't stop yourself.

(I can think of one case where this line was part of a reading, and there was sorrow about not being able to rescue someone. The problems only arise when you think it always has to be about [not] saving someone else, and are left looking around for someone to fit the bill...)

I'm also no great enthusiast for line-theory-generated over-complications: W/B's 'him whom he follows' seems to be one of those. Going back to the few words of the line and trying to see the story they tell in the simplest terms, is always good. OK, then...

Stilled, your calves.
Not rescued, your following.
Your heart not glad.

I suppose one possibility is that the parallelism of first and second lines indicates that the calves are the followers, stilled but not rescued. You can stop yourself getting any further in, but there's no rescue from the consequences of how far you've already gone. This feels somewhat awkward and contrived, though.

Another, that because you've already come to a standstill you're out of reach of the followers: you've saved yourself, but that means you can't save them. (The 'rescue/help/save' word has to do with hands.)

Can a reader of old Chinese tell us whether sui was in fact much used to mean people who follow, rather than as a verb?

And can I be the only one feeling that we really need experience to help us navigate this?
 

hilary

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I see what you mean - thanks.

That raises another question, though. How would you interpret when you receive this line and the leader/follower scenario just doesn't apply? When it's just about you and your own progress or stopping, and no-one else is involved?
 

toganm

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Can a reader of old Chinese tell us whether sui was in fact much used to mean people who follow, rather than as a verb?
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3121 is where the ideograph of sui was discussed.

The calves or mainly the gastrocnemius muscle is if you look at the two halves where they split creates an indentation similar to the character ren (人) meaning man. At this location there is an acupuncture point Bl.57 Chengshan (Supporting Mountain). A man supporting the mountain can suggest the spirit of the point (and here in the context of calves) is strengthening our resolve to bear up our responsiblities and life's challenges.

Hope this helps.

Togan
 

yxeli

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Hi,

This is marvelous that I can read about this in the saved forums.

I asked the Yi ''What is his innermost heart telling him about me?''

52.2>18.

I have found the IC very easy to understand with regard to this particular relationship, as the yi talks alot about falling, and analogies to different parts of the legs, the toes, the calves..

The man literally fell 4 months ago, so i have found a lot of the Yis advice to be fairly straightforward when i consult it about him. He severely damaged the bones in the heels of his feet.

He actually fell about a half hour after he had walked me home, and we were dicussing our relationship.He wanted to know what i thought was wrong with him, why he couldnt commit. We had been having false starts for 2 years, and it seemed the fates stepped in and told us 'Somethings gotta give'. He has been wheelchair bound for three and a bit months, up until last week, now he is on crutches and its still very painful for him to walk.

On my side, i have also been bound, not physically but mentally, the relationship brought up a lot of personal issues for me, and i was part of the reason for all these false starts. I told him about this, and i think this is what the yi is bringing up here.

The man in question is very much here to serve. When he is in a relationship he very much wants to do anything for the object of his affections, so line two really rang true with me on this one. I think he really wanted to rescue me.

52.2 > 18 seems to be telling me that he feels bad that he cant rescue me from the mental illness ( 18 - genetics? something which is inherantly spoiled?) and he is sad about this. But I find it interesting that above it has been mentioned that it is about clearing away what has been spoiled, like a fresh start??

other consultations with the IC regarding our relationship have very much been about a new beginning, shedding an old skin etc.


Does anyone have any thoughts?

Thank You :bows:

Yx
 

soraya

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for what its worth, i have an example of 52.2 - sometimes the answer can be multi dimensional.

i am in the process of separating.
He is younger and wants a family, (which i wouldn't be able to give).... but more importantly, he has already pledged his heart to someone else.
him and I met at the gym where i am used to go training and where he works.
tacitlty we have agreed to stop communication or any contact, for it just doesn't feel right him being being newly married. The separation is painful but we both bear with it in silence. So far, he has been really good to avoid me when i go training, I understand and it is ok.
today, as i walked into the gym, i saw him at the door.... i went towards him to say hello, only to realise that we was dealing with a customer that was giving him grief. I kept my hello brief and just kept going to the lockers room, where a found an other fellow customer and we were chatting as he showed-up.
he wasn't happy about the grief and threats that he just had to take from the guy that was trying to force entry.
My first reaction was to comfort him, telling him that we love him and gave him a hug and a kiss on the cheek. Madeleine, the fellow to whom i was chatting to, followed suit and gave him a hug too.
but he came for an other one, and i obliged. I could feel this 52.2 going so much further than just the incident at the door. much further into our own experience of an impossible love. the heart isn't glad indeed.

ps. this is my first post, in appreciation of the fabulous community from onlineclarity
 

soraya

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for what its worth, i have an example of 52.2 - sometimes the answer can be multi dimensional.

i am in the process of separating.
He is younger and wants a family, (which i wouldn't be able to give).... but more importantly, he has already pledged his heart to someone else.
him and I met at the gym where i am used to go training and where he works.
tacitlty we have agreed to stop communication or any contact, for it just doesn't feel right him being being newly married. The separation is painful but we both bear with it in silence. So far, he has been really good to avoid me when i go training, I understand and it is ok.
today, as i walked into the gym, i saw him at the door.... i went towards him to say hello, only to realise that we was dealing with a customer that was giving him grief. I kept my hello brief and just kept going to the lockers room, where a found an other fellow customer and we were chatting as he showed-up.
he wasn't happy about the grief and threats that he just had to take from the guy that was trying to force entry.
My first reaction was to comfort him, telling him that we love him and gave him a hug and a kiss on the cheek. Madeleine, the fellow to whom i was chatting to, followed suit and gave him a hug too.
but he came for an other one, and i obliged. I could feel this 52.2 going so much further than just the incident at the door. much further into our own experience of an impossible love. the heart isn't glad indeed.

ps. this is my first post, in appreciation of the fabulous community from onlineclarity
 

sylvia1ching

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Trojina
Keeping Still is stopping or positing rest of the mind and the mind can bring rest to the movement of the heart. The stopping or resting or quieting of the most difficult organ is the heart. Keeping Still discusses how one can find rest, quiet so that any motion going forward is from a position strength and calm. How do you create stillness and yet parts of you may be in motion. All six lines refer to the transition of rest or stopping from the toes to jaw from line 1 to 6. The judgement handles the CNS i.e. back. All parts of the body that can move have been addressed.

Line 2: it is like knowing what is the right thing to based on what the mind can express and then there is the will of the heart. If you allow your heart to drive even though you may know logically and intellectually that moving in this direction is not effective or will cause issue...You heart can override and can find yourself or watch yourself go down a dreadful path and has nothing to do what is the right thing. The stronger master is the heart if you are not careful and although the mind/reason can give you the answer all day long the heart cannot be rescued from its will unless the mind has quieted the movement of the heart
 

sylvia1ching

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It is the emotions or the heart will that will master your body and mind if your mind cannot quiet the movement of the heart.
 

Trojina

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This thread is over 10 years old and my readings experience with the line has revealed the saving aspect of the line I hadn't seen then.


Line 2: it is like knowing what is the right thing to based on what the mind can express and then there is the will of the heart. If you allow your heart to drive even though you may know logically and intellectually that moving in this direction is not effective or will cause issue...You heart can override and can find yourself or watch yourself go down a dreadful path and has nothing to do what is the right thing. The stronger master is the heart if you are not careful and although the mind/reason can give you the answer all day long the heart cannot be rescued from its will unless the mind has quieted the movement of the heart


For me now the line seems to play out in 2 ways. There's the motion of the heart you cannot stop that you describe - it doesn't stop to order and hence there is pain when it overruns the limits of where it can find fulfilment. One cannot always cut off desires or attractions they go on, they have to run their course.


The 2nd way - which I said I had not experienced in this cast 10 years ago, I've seen play out a number of time - it can be sad or frustrating from both ends.


I was speaking to someone about this the other day. It can be where you see clearly what a person with a problem needs to do and what is more you are right but though the course of remedial action seems clear and simple to you they can't/won't do it. Everyone will have experienced this at some point and it is frustrating. I think at those times what you (meaning me/we) can fail to take into account is the that however logical the rescue plan might be the heart of the person, and for heart I think I include soul, cannot catch up with that because it's reasons for doing what it's doing come from another place, emotions/heart/soul where logic comes second. That's how it is. We don't live our whole lives through the brain we are heart directed too. And I think 'heart' is somehow too small a word - this can be a whole lifetime's orientation not just a current wish.


From the other end of the rescue, on the receiving end of someone's attempting to rescue me through advice and so on I can see that very clearly. So twenty years ago for example I can recall someone telling me 'what you need to is A then B then C and then things will be fine'. Twenty years later I can see of course their advice was correct. If I had done those things then indeed I would have avoided lots of suffering. However I couldn't at the time do those things they thought would be a good idea because my heart wasn't able or ready and I'm me not them, not where they were, not in their shoes.

So seeing what a person needs to do from the outside of them is only half the picture, the other half is their own inner world which may not make the things you suggest possible. It's sad of course because you want to make it better or they want to make it better for you but they can't. They have to watch you living your life with the heart and soul you've got and when you see someone you can rescue because you can see what needs to be done that isn't enough because they have to walk their own path to that destination. And of course the path, the journey itself is very important, you can't short circuit someone's journey in life by giving them advice they can't implement, you have to watch.

How many parents think if only they give their child the results of their life experience the child won't need to go and make the same mistakes they did but it doesn't work like that.

I think sadness is felt because we don't want others we care about to have to tread their own rocky path we'd like to make a nice smooth shortcut but we can't. Similarly there's sadness when the heart, the soul, has attached to something, is going forward wishing to be connected and then that is taken away.
 

sylvia1ching

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It was not an interpretation like on Shared I was trying to give my opinion of what 52.2 means. Please help me understand. I am absorbing anything and everything I can. I need feedback. I need a mentor.

The I Ching tells me the heart's will cannot be controlled only the movement of the heart. The ability to determine movement of the heart is in the choices one makes. The idea is do you lead with your heart or with your mind. Which master is being served in 52.2 - the heart or the mind.

In 52.2 as unit the body is in motion with heart and mind and man is swept along. Even if stops because there is a choice to be made... the mind may tell you the truth and so it stops the body but the heart sweeps you along and you end up falling on your face. The master in this case is the heart and the servant is the mind. I am going to respond to your post, if you do not mind.
 

Trojina

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It was not an interpretation like on Shared I was trying to give my opinion of what 52.2 means.

Yes I know, thank you. I find meaning not through books alone but through my own experiences of readings and how they connect with the words. So in my journal if I have 52.2 10 times I can look it up and see how those situations connected.


I don't think lines mean one set thing all by themselves they have to be understood in the context of readings


Please help me understand. I am absorbing anything and everything I can. I need feedback. I need a mentor.


Hilary is offering mentoring on the Foundations Course now

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/c/c/yijing-foundations/


...or you can get the Foundations Course as part of CC membership. The Foundations Course is a very good grounding in interpretation skills.


The I Ching tells me the heart's will cannot be controlled only the movement of the heart. The ability to determine movement of the heart is in the choices one makes. The idea is do you lead with your heart or with your mind. Which master is being served in 52.2 - the heart or the mind.

I'm not sure the I Ching is telling you that or the commentary. Remember Wilhelm's commentary or any other commentary is not the same thing as the I Ching. The words of the I Ching are just the actual translation as you no doubt know.


Hence Hilary's translation for this line is

'Stilling your calves,
Not rescuing your following.
Your heart in not glad.'


So that is what the I Ching says and Wilhelm has decided, in his commentary. that means there's this choice between heart and mind. Wilhelm's commentaries are helpful but they aren't the last word on what a line might mean.


You can check out other commentaries and see how they differ, if you haven't already. If you click on Bradford's signature you can get to his work for free and also Lise's work.

In 52.2 as unit the body is in motion with heart and mind and man is swept along. Even if stops because there is a choice to be made... the mind may tell you the truth and so it stops the body but the heart sweeps you along and you end up falling on your face. The master in this case is the heart and the servant is the mind. I am going to respond to your post, if you do not mind.



I don't think it's a case of master and servant - that is someone's take on it and it is valuable for what it is but it's just one way of looking at it. if you read the other posts in this thread, Hilary's for example you can see all kinds of ideas about it. Actually I do think it's a valid position to take - yes your heart runs away with you, you can't help it, it's what hearts do they have a different pacing for events.
 

Trojina

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ps to answer your question in PM - no it's not a problem to comment on a 10 year old thread but what sometimes happens is people can think it's current and answer as if for example I had asked today.


This is more of a problem in SR. One time a person asked 'shall I go out this evening ?'' Ten years later someone replied, either yes or no can't recall - It's funny but then when old threads are revived other people who don't see the date start answering a person who maybe left the forum 10 years ago or is dead because they think it's a new thread.
 

sylvia1ching

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I get that Wilhelm is subjective. From what I understand he did not do the translations from Chinese alone he had to support him ( I cannot remember his name) who was Chinese.

I understand that my next step is creating from the actual words words themselves.

In 52.2 I am trying to work from facts or rules or something that is true. The heart versus mind is not from what I interpreted. It comes from something that read many times and not only in the I Ching...it universal...look at Shakespeake … On an individual basis I do connect with that person and apply the meaning according to the question but there "truths". For example to be in service is to rule. That is a consistent message that shows up not only words but in the actions and results of the Chinese people... Kin Wen to Confuscious to Menard that I can that read outside of the I Ching.
 

Crystal__Clear

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Not that anyone asked, but I wanted to say, I think it’s really cool to see the growth that’s happened in the past ten years specifically with regard to Trojina’s experience with this line. I’m not usually behind commenting on ancient threads for the aforementioned reasons but in this case, it’s really cool to see the clarity coming through.
I myself have been consulting for 10 years now, and I’m still just as in love with the Yi as ever. I fully understand why Confucius said he’d love another 50 years in his life just to study the I Ching. We are really really lucky to have access to this limitless guide.

❤️ so appreciative
 

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