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2.3

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maremaria

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Hi,

I try to grasp the meaning of line 2.3 , with no success though. :brickwall:
What is this line talks about and what actions does it recommend ?

Maria
 
M

meng

Guest
Earth births all things without making much fuss about herself. This is synonymous with the resulting hex 15. It's sufficient that the work is done.
 
M

maremaria

Guest
Thanks Meng

I didn't realized till now the connection between 2.3 and 15. Still difficult to see the answet to my question. Have to re-read that line.

Maria
 
S

SHONNA_D

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Could anyone share a translation of the line? Is there any sexual innuendo?
 

Trojina

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Could anyone share a translation of the line? Is there any sexual innuendo?

This is a translation of the line from Hilary taken from wikiwing


'Containing within, a thing of beauty: this can be constant.
Maybe following king's business -
Without accomplishment there is completion.'


That is a translation. Is that what you are actually asking for ? A translation is the actual words of Yi from the ancient Chinese. There are many of these by different translators. Do you not have a book with a translation in ?

Or are you actually asking for an interpretation of the translation ? Often people seem to think a commentary, ie an interpretation is a 'translation' .

Also this is an 8 year old thread.

Is there any sexual innuendo?

Well if you are asking about something sexual there might be for you, that is you might see it somewhere in the line. I don't think it is implicit in the line but if it jumps out at you because you are asking about sex, well then there it is.
 

charly

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Could anyone share a translation of the line? Is there any sexual innuendo?
Hi, Shonna:

Begining with the last: H.2 is the hexagram of the Female Principle, everything in it must have a connection with RECEPTIVENESS, FERTILITY AND REPRODUCTION. Things that hardly happen without SEX.

Now the translation, that cannot be but provisional:

含章可貞
han2 zhang1 ke3 zhen1
CONTAINING A_BADGE SUITABLE TO_DIVINATE (1)
There is something or somebody that contains a suitable emblem.
Women are receptive, that's her job.

或從王事无成
huo4 cong2 wang2 shi4 wu2 cheng2 you3 zhong1
MAYBE FOLLOWING KING AFFAIRS NOT ACCOMPLISHED
Kings use to begin affairs that later let that somebody else accomplishes.

有終
you3 zhong1
THERE_WILL_BE AN_END
Somebody that can carry up the story to a lucky end.

zhang1 here translated as BADGE, appears also in H.44 and H.55, both hexagrams with "sexual innuendo"

In H.44 appears after WILLOW (sex) and MELON (fertility) as something FALLEN FROM THE HEAVEN.

In H.55 his COMING is followed by CELEBRATION and RECOGNITION.

In the case of 2.3 what comes to mind first is the story of the Zhous defeating the Shangs. Wen Wang prepared the conditions for a revolt against the Shangs but died before the decisive encounter. Wu Wang, his elder son alive, followed the project that his father left unfinished and, in the battle of Muye, put an end to the Shang Dynasty.

But, does function that story in the context of H.2? It's uncertain. The heroes of the story are all men.

I believe more probable that 2.3 be about QUEENS FINISHING THE WORK THAT THEIR HUSBANDS LEFT INCOMPLETE, LIKE THE NURTURING OF THE HEIR.

Of course, women don't need to be Queens to accomplish the work.

All the best,

Charly
_______________________
(1) The word here translated as divinate is also translated as perseverance or to persevere. «Containing a badge suitable to persevere» is maybe an allusion to PREGNANCY.

(2) FOR SEEING THE CHINESE CHARACTERS GO HERE:

Ch.
 
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S

SHONNA_D

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Well if you are asking about something sexual there might be for you, that is you might see it somewhere in the line. I don't think it is implicit in the line but if it jumps out at you because you are asking about sex, well then there it is.

I don't think too Trojan and so why I asked if there is a translation that shows something about sex.

Charly your posts are priceless! Thank you! Women are receptive during the sexual intercourse.
What I noticed:
Hexagram 2 is about earth the hexagram of the Female Principle.
The image of hexagram 2: 'The earth's condition isreceptive devotion'
The image of hexagram 15: 'There is a mountain inside earth'
And both speak about 'completion'

No comments...:blush:
 

moss elk

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Is there any sexual innuendo?

No, it is not generally or specifically about sex. The only way it would be is if you were asking a question about sex.
(and in that context it would be an absurd amount of work creating an orgasm.)
 

charly

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... What I noticed:
Hexagram 2 is about earth the hexagram of the Female Principle.
The image of hexagram 2: 'The earth's condition is receptive devotion'
The image of hexagram 15: 'There is a mountain inside earth'
And both speak about 'completion'...

Hi, Shonna:

Wilhelm / Baynes begin H.2 with this commentary:
This hexagram is made up of broken lines only. The broken lines represents the dark, yielding, receptive primal power of yin. The attribute of the hexagram is devotion; its image is the earth. It is the perfect complement of THE CREATIVE. The complement, not the opposite, for the Receptive does not combat the Creative but completes it ...
W / B

The power of YIN. The same character YIN is applied to SEXUAL ORGANS, be female or male. May be we can understand «the power of sex». But the paragraph follows with prejudicious discourse based on hirarchy, male superiority, women as origin of evil and so on.

See the introduction to H.1: it doesn't speak of evil but of power, perfection. Men are almost angels.

I don't like too much the concept of RECEPTIVE DEVOTION that carries a sense of SELF SACRIFICE instead of JOY.

See what is written in the DA XIANG (GREAT IMAGE):


地势坤 君子以厚德载物
di shi kun jun zi yi hou de zai wu
EARTH POWER (IS) KUN. (1)
NOBLE SON ACCORDING TO GENEROUS CHARACTER HOLDS THINGS.

Earth is in H.2 the cosmic exemplary actant whose power or condition is KUN (for now its meaning is unclear).

The Noble Son (man of noble character), emulating the generous character of Earth, supports things.

Admirable. But I wonder what sort of things, how many things? Maybe many, maybe only one. (2)

Earth carries to a completion and supports all the things under Heaven, say, all the THINGS of the world. (3)

Ergo, the meaning of KUN is GENEROSITY stretching to contain all the LIFE of the world. (4)


Annotation:
earth / ground / field / place / land /
shì: power / influence / potential / tendency / condition / appearance / male genitals
kun: one of the Eight Trigrams symbolizing earth / female principle / ☷ /
君子 jūnzǐ: noble son / nobleman / person of noble character /
yǐ: according to / in order to / because of /
hòu: thick / deep / kind / generous / to favor / to stress /
dé: virtue / goodness / morality / ethics / kindness / character / kind /
zài: to carry / to convey / to load / to hold / to fill up / and / also / as well as /
wù: thing / object / matter /
(Source: Mandarin Spot)

All the best,

Charly

__________________________________________
(1) The character for POWER can also be translated as CONDITION, CHARACTER or PHALLUS. In the las case, KUN means EARTH'S PHALLUS, say, VULVA. (Some authors prefer C_NT, I don't like although it might be true etymology).

(2) Maybe only the YANG THING which is the PENIS. Maybe some more.

(3) I believe that all the THINGS of the Changes are LIVING BEINGS (starting fron the principle that the Changes always speaks to us and ABOUT US).

(4) ... so I use LIFE instead of THINGS.

FOR SEEING THE CHINESE CHARACTERS GO HERE:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/printthread.php?t=6991&pp=10&page=1

Ch.
 
S

SHONNA_D

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No, it is not generally or specifically about sex. The only way it would be is if you were asking a question about sex.
(and in that context it would be an absurd amount of work creating an orgasm.)

Absolutely agree! The question was about sex:flirt:
 
S

SHONNA_D

Guest
Hi, Shonna:

Wilhelm / Baynes begin H.2 with this commentary:


The power of YIN. The same character YIN is applied to SEXUAL ORGANS, be female or male. May be we can understand �the power of sex�. But the paragraph follows with prejudicious discourse based on hirarchy, male superiority, women as origin of evil and so on.

See the introduction to H.1: it doesn't speak of evil but of power, perfection. Men are almost angels.

I don't like too much the concept of RECEPTIVE DEVOTION that carries a sense of SELF SACRIFICE instead of JOY.

See what is written in the DA XIANG (GREAT IMAGE):


地势坤 君�*�以厚德载物
di shi kun jun zi yi hou de zai wu
EARTH POWER (IS) KUN. (1)
NOBLE SON ACCORDING TO GENEROUS CHARACTER HOLDS THINGS.

Earth is in H.2 the cosmic exemplary actant whose power or condition is KUN (for now its meaning is unclear).

The Noble Son (man of noble character), emulating the generous character of Earth, supports things.

Admirable. But I wonder what sort of things, how many things? Maybe many, maybe only one. (2)

Earth carries to a completion and supports all the things under Heaven, say, all the THINGS of the world. (3)

Ergo, the meaning of KUN is GENEROSITY stretching to contain all the LIFE of the world. (4)


Annotation:
d� earth / ground / field / place / land /
sh�: power / influence / potential / tendency / condition / appearance / male genitals
kun: one of the Eight Trigrams symbolizing earth / female principle / ☷ /
君�*� jūnzǐ: noble son / nobleman / person of noble character /
yǐ: according to / in order to / because of /
h�u: thick / deep / kind / generous / to favor / to stress /
d�: virtue / goodness / morality / ethics / kindness / character / kind /
z�i: to carry / to convey / to load / to hold / to fill up / and / also / as well as /
w�: thing / object / matter /
(Source: Mandarin Spot)

All the best,

Charly

__________________________________________
(1) The character for POWER can also be translated as CONDITION, CHARACTER or PHALLUS. In the las case, KUN means EARTH'S PHALLUS, say, VULVA. (Some authors prefer C_NT, I don't like although it might be true etymology).

(2) Maybe only the YANG THING which is the PENIS. Maybe some more.

(3) I believe that all the THINGS of the Changes are LIVING BEINGS (starting fron the principle that the Changes always speaks to us and ABOUT US).

(4) ... so I use LIFE instead of THINGS.

FOR SEEING THE CHINESE CHARACTERS GO HERE:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/printthread.php?t=6991&pp=10&page=1

Ch.

Your posts are always so useful. Chinese people had a tendency to use sexual innuendos ;)
 

charly

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Your posts are always so useful. Chinese people had a tendency to use sexual innuendos ;)
Hi, Shonna:

This tread can be useful for those amateurs fond of translation:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?14784-Translating-Characters&p=157126

A quote from Lin Yutang:

SEX IMAGERY IN THE CHINESE LANGUAGE
THERE is sex imagery in every language, and the Chinese language is no exception. Without having made an exhaustive comparative study on the subject, I dare not make the statement that the Chinese language excels in this respect, but that would seem to be the general impression. The English miners' language and that of sailors on the forecastle could perhaps shame the Chinese by comparison, but I suspect nevertheless that such language is more confined to the forecastle and has less widespread currency.

LIN YUTANG : WITH LOVE AND IRONY
Illustrated by Kurt Wiese
THE JOHN DAY COMPANY • NEW YORK
[End of Quote]

Yours,

Charly
 
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