44.1.5 to 14 - is he falling for me?

irpa1 · Feb 14, 2009

Hello all,

Will you please help me with this response? This is about my relationship with a guy -which is quite "hot" - I mean, there are lots of sparks between us. I was just wondering if he was falling inlove with me and received 44.1.5, changing to 14.

What do you see on this response?

Thank you,
Lil.

ginnie · Feb 15, 2009

Great magnetic force

Hexagram 44 is the hexagram of magnetic forces drawing people together.

You know that something is wrong here, otherwise you would not have asked the Yi.

If there is indeed love here, it would be of the sheltering kind. It would probably turn out to be almost completely platonic, spiritual, or cultural in nature.

Since you are at the very beginning of what could be an unusually difficult relationship, please know that you have been given by the Yi a strong warning that there is a huge trap waiting for you in this situation, and you still have time to stop yourself. That's the way I see it. Maybe others will have a different opinion.

txortx · Feb 15, 2009

Hi irpa1,

Line 1. This line represents letting in your life the yin principle, thinking that it cannot be dangerous, but it really is. But line 5 is a bit different. The IChing is telling you that you can become a guide for him, but you must keep your own way, be an example for him, BUT don't let him feel inferior to you. This way it can be possible for you to achieve a change in his behaviour.

This is how I see the situation.

Trojina · Feb 15, 2009

irpa1 said:
Hello all,

Will you please help me with this response? This is about my relationship with a guy -which is quite "hot" - I mean, there are lots of sparks between us. I was just wondering if he was falling inlove with me and received 44.1.5, changing to 14.

What do you see on this response?

Thank you,
Lil.

I'd just see it as yes hes got the hots for you and fancies having you (14)...dunno about 'falling in love'...

ginnie · Feb 15, 2009

txortx said:
The IChing is telling you that you can become a guide for him, but you must keep your own way, be an example for him, BUT don't let him feel inferior to you. This way it can be possible for you to achieve a change in his behaviour.

But it is hard for a strong, intelligent woman to serve as a guide if the man is the inferior one in a "love" relationship, because men are physically stronger and usually have more dominant personalities. It is hard for a strong woman to hold her tongue and not begin to challenge what she knows and sees to be inferior. It is important to understand at the beginning that the inferior element may never leave. It may always be present in this relationship, something permanently destructive of all that is light and strong.

I would say: It's a trap.

Of course, sometimes we don't have as many options as we would like to have. That's true, too. Sometimes a lot of getting twisted up and spit out is just in the cards and we cannot avoid it, no matter what we do. But if you have other options, exercise them . . .

txortx · Feb 15, 2009

Hi Barbra,

I was just trying to read what the IChing was saying. The IChing doesn't know anything about which sex you are. It is just telling you what can be done now the "inferior" element is IN the relationship and it is in because she let it in. It was just a comment, I don't mind if Irpa is a woman or a man, the IChing is just saying: hey!! you want this to be this way, so build it up as you want it to be, but be kind with your partner and try to teach him the best way you can.

I don't know if Irpa would be a wonderful teacher, but it doesn't matter. What matters here is that there is a way, and the IChing is telling which is that way. Another different question is to know if Irpa would be able to achieve this or not.

I would say: it is a trap if you let yourself be trap.

ginnie · Feb 15, 2009

Yes

Yes, Txortx, I agree with you 100% about the fifth line moving. Such a relationship can lead to great cultural or spiritual achievement. In terms of a relationship, it means a sheltering or a teaching, as you were saying. But there may not be any sexual aspect to fifth line moving, which could make for a rather difficult "love" relationship.

My "take" on 44.1.5>14 overall is based on the fact that the language of the first line moving is truly extreme and shocking. Seems to indicate that a ruined animal gets captured. Seeing the pitfall or seeing a person stuck and exposed to danger is definitely part of this.

Also about line one moving, I'll quote Sarah Dening: "Something very destructive is beginning to make its presence felt. You must take action to stop this before it can develop further and do any harm. Do not allow yourself to be possessed by negative thoughts or emotions."

I can't think of any translation in which line 1 moving is not a strong warning.

Trojina · Feb 15, 2009

you have to fit the answer to the level of the question. Wondering where 'cultural acheivement', 'sheltering,teaching' comes from with both of you ? lol Shes saying a guy seems to have the hots for her. Now unless he decides he doesn't want sex but would rather read her 'War and Peace',( which i'm sure would disapoint her greatly lol )I personally don't see cultural achievement, sheltering or teaching.....where do these ideas come from ? As its 44 I'd say this was likley a sexual desire element and as hex is 14 'having/in possession' I just think they want to have each other..or as shes asking if hes in love...well I'd say no hes in lust, but not to worry most men can't tell the difference :rofl:

Just because Wilhelm might mention 'great spiritual or cultural achievement' or whoever you can't just apply that to any situation...you do have to take scale into account. If i lose my glasses and ask the Yi where they are and get 44.5 i don't expect a great cultural achievment - although reading the paper may be kind of cultural i suppose.

Scale is also important in the warning aspect Barbra refers to.

ginnie · Feb 16, 2009

Why sheltering or teaching?

trojan said:
Wondering where 'cultural acheivement', 'sheltering,teaching' comes from with both of you ? lol Shes saying a guy seems to have the hots for her. Now unless he decides he doesn't want sex but would rather read her 'War and Peace'

Hi, Trojan, the cultural achievement, as I see it, might come as a development in the future, not at the beginning of this relationship.

I am thinking that the querent knows the man who has the hots for her in some context. Maybe they met because they both do something artistic, for example. Well, maybe in the future, after the brief, "hot" affair dies down, maybe they will meet to collaborate on an art project. Something like that really could happen in the real world. Maybe the guy will always have the hots for her, but she will change the goal of this relationship. That's where we get the sheltering, teaching aspect coming in. It comes in because she decides it.

These two will always be magnetically drawn to each other. That has to be so, otherwise s/he would not have gotten hexagram 44.

Trojina · Feb 16, 2009

barbra said:
Hi, Trojan, the cultural achievement, as I see it, might come as a development in the future, not at the beginning of this relationship.

I am thinking that the querent knows the man who has the hots for her in some context. Maybe they met because they both do something artistic, for example. Well, maybe in the future, after the brief, "hot" affair dies down, maybe they will meet to collaborate on an art project. Something like that really could happen in the real world. Maybe the guy will always have the hots for her, but she will change the goal of this relationship. That's where we get the sheltering, teaching aspect coming in. It comes in because she decides it.

These two will always be magnetically drawn to each other. That has to be so, otherwise s/he would not have gotten hexagram 44.

I don't think 44 is always about being magnetically drawn at all..but we don't want go down the 44 route

I just don't see where you got artistic bit from, she didn't mention it did she ? What in the answer makes you think they may collaberate on an art project ? Where do you get the 'sheltering and teaching' aspect from also ? What makes you think she decides it ? I simply don't see how you get to these conclusions. I mean if its just a hunch its one thing, if you're saying its in the actual answer of 44>14 then i don't see it

its okay no need to explain i guess it may just be a difference of opinion

hilary · Feb 16, 2009

'Using willow to wrap melons.
Containing a thing of beauty,
It comes falling from its source in heaven.'

The wrapped melons are being sheltered... there's a 'thing of beauty' or a 'chapter' - some kind of artistic creation? reasonable translation on its way.

My experience with 44.5 is mostly of the wrapped, hidden nature of what's coming. It may be absolutely beautiful, but will it be anything you have a place for? Impossible to say.

meng · Feb 16, 2009

txortx said:
you want this to be this way, so build it up as you want it to be, but be kind with your partner and try to teach him the best way you can.

Pretty cool interpretation of line 5.

ginnie · Feb 16, 2009

A ting

hilary said:
It comes falling from its source in heaven.'
My experience with 44.5 is mostly of the wrapped, hidden nature of what's coming. It may be absolutely beautiful, but will it be anything you have a place for? Impossible to say.

I like Hilary's subtle question, "Will it be anything you have a place for?"

My experience of 44.5 is that the relating hexagram is important to it. The relating hexagram is 50, The Cauldron, the ting, and the implication is that you will keep stirring the contents of the pot and attend to what's cooking. This is no ordinary kitchen pot, however. "The ting serves in offering sacrifice to God," says the W/B translation.

In the Foreword written by Carl Jung for the W/B translation, he asked the Yi about itself, and it referred to itself as a ting. The Yi is a sacred text, nourishment on a higher level. In my experience, the ting can be a particularly good piece of writing. Once you are talking about a ting, a ritual vessel, it has to be assumed that you are referring to higher levels of culture. The ting can be a special kind of marriage or partnership, too, a partnership that fosters spiritual or cultural values predominantly. Maybe the experience of others has been very different, but this has been my understanding.

So with all this high-mindedness and the highest standards implied, it's a good question to ask: "Will it be anything you have a place for?"

ariel13 · Apr 22, 2019

Old thread. Want to add my 2 cents though, as it seems to be strongly linked to my recent experience. I drew 44.1.5 as a question regarding if a recent fellow I've been sort of dating is "into" me. This all seems so relevant. haha I mean yes he seems to have the "hots" for me. After meeting, a long period passed where nothing physical happened, and then it did a few days ago. As for nurturing and cultural whatever.. yeah we are both artists. He is much younger, not as accomplished. I could easily see that I'd be a mentor for him. But in this case not a bad thing at all. As in, I don't feel pressured towards it. Just feel it will probably be a natural thing that happens as a result of our friendship. I'm excited to see where it goes. He feels like a natural partner in terms of physical and mental compatibility. He's like easy and sweet imo. I'll prob post as it develops. Anyway, interesting that Ginnie and Trojan saw their interpretations as mutually exclusive. Just sayin' I think you are both right on these lines. And also Hilary. What a gift to have the experience of a true connection where even mentoriship is welcomed and natural. It's always nice to feel you are helping someone you care about. :hug:

:bows:

...life can be translucent

44.1.5 to 14 - is he falling for me?

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