I guess this is more about Ba Gua ? I haven't worked with Bruce for about 13 years. I learned something about working with the I Ching from him. I am not posting this to advertise his work but because I thought his note made some simple points about working with I Ching which I have found true.
-pp


Hi folks,



With my I Ching meditation course and Ba Gua Instructor Training coming up this summer, I've recommended that all of those who attend show up having read the I Ching at least three times. You'll need to have some idea about what the I Ching is to begin peeling away the layers of metaphor and understanding its terse, ancient and foreign language.

The way that most people read the I Ching is very much from a mental, mundane point of view. But there is a profound approach to reading the hexagrams. It involves balancing and objectively considering the variables at play with your own personal desires or ideals. You can read it to stir your inner juices and hopefully, ultimately help resolve something that does not have an apparent resolution on the face of it. The most popular reason why people throw the I Ching is simply to relieve themselves of the anxiety of making decisions.

If you are very clear about what you want to do, then you have utterly no reason to turn to the I Ching. If you need to take a train and you know the only time it departs is 9:45 am, then you know you need to be on that train. There's no point in pondering: "Should I leave at 10:45 am or 3:30 pm?" Now say there's an option to take a train or plane. Most people will know right away which option they will choose, but then and again, some don't. If you know, there's no need to bother with the I Ching. But if you don't know, one of two things could be going on. First you may just need to trust yourself a little bit--stop second guessing yourself. Although there is the possibility that there could be pros and cons to each outcome and you genuinely wonder about which choice to make. So we go to the next level from which the I Ching could be read.

Most of us are familiar with the logic of situations. Although most people are not that in tune with the energy that is moving through a situation, which may or may not be what logic would dictate: sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. The I Ching can help you to become aware of chi flows. It can help you start to feel and recognize the flow of chi. Take feng shui, which is popular these days. You might find a place where you can't feel any chi. You know you can't recognize chi, so you inferentially work out what the chi is that you would like to manifest and how you can make shifts to feel it. So, for example, you may consult the I Ching with: "Well, I can recognize the energy of this situation or this event or my body, but what is it, really?" So you ask the I Ching and that might start reforming you. You're reforming the way you think; changing the way you think; expanding the way you think. Opening.

Eventually you're looking to recognize the energy of a situation just as a person who practices chi gung or meditation is learning how to directly perceive the energies that are arising from within. You start recognizing the energies flowing between and why they are trying to flow, rather than going against them, cutting them out altogether or going numb to them. You've got a certain amount of play once you recognize what the energy is or what the energies are at play. Now this doesn't say anything about what you should or should not do. We are only considering how to become more aware and clear.

So when you're Walking the Circle, the classic physical practice for manifesting the energies of the I Ching, you learn to recognize the energies at play and, over time, make them happen inside your body. This summer I'd like to play with these energies and help you recognize them. When you go back home you want to continue applying the techniques you learn until you can recognize what the eight basic energies are and then onwards and forwards through the trigrams and eventually even the hexagrams. I make no statement about how long this might take.

In order to learn the art of how to manifest energy, you first need to know what it is--intimately--as well as how not to resist it. The central art of the I Ching is to learn how to not resist change. I'll write more on the I Ching and the topic of resistance next month. In the meantime you can read an article by Paul Cavel to lean more about why ba gua is the classic physical practice of the I Ching.

I'll see you for an eventful summer,


B K Frantzis

Ah, we have a name. Nice to finally meet you, Bruce. I honor your path. :bows:

Well, only "pantherpanther" can clarify that. Now that I see the PP in the endorsement, I think you may be right. Oh well...

The note posted was from Bruce's newsletter, which is free.
www.energyarts.com

Hi pantherpanther,

I found Bruce's remarks somewhat confusing. He teaches I Ching but has a very limited view of the range of its answers.

If you are very clear about what you want to do, then you have utterly no reason to turn to the I Ching.

Click to expand...

Can you explain his perspective any from your work with him?

Frank

fkegan said:

Hi pantherpanther,

I found Bruce's remarks somewhat confusing. He teaches I Ching but has a very limited view of the range of its answers.
Can you explain his perspective any from your work with him?

Frank

Click to expand...

>>>>
Bruce states above:
"I'd like to play with these energies and help you recognize them. When you go back home you want to continue applying the techniques you learn until you can recognize what the eight basic energies are and then onwards and forwards through the trigrams and eventually even the hexagrams. I make no statement about how long this might take."

I suggest he is referencing the states of consciousness we can experience through practices such as meditation, walking the circle, etc, in which the laws represented in the I Ching offer a guide. The approach is to seek to "Know Thyself" in order to relate practically as a microcosom to the macrocosom. What energy is lacking that I don't feel or know and why? What is my question? Can I bring my search for my real question impartially, without believing in supposed "personal issues," into relation to the I Ching ? Can I separate enough "me" from something else that would be "new"?

That is my take, but I don't claim to speak for Bruce.

Thanks for the explanation of Bruce's view of the Yi as part of an internal energy-chi practice. Seems he doesn't like oracle use of the Yi. The Yi was part of the standard training for Chinese Imperial Bureaucrats for centuries and Confucius consulted the oracle often for advice--seems Bruce has a rather limited view of the Oracle and when its appropriate to consult it.

I did enjoy his remarks about reading the Yi three times to have some idea about what the I Ching is to begin peeling away the layers of metaphor and understanding its terse, ancient and foreign language.

I remember working on translation with Gia-Fu and being impress how terse and filled with slogan metaphors it was. Of course, listening to Gia-Fu's work on the difference between the literal text and the Taoist implications from his childhood training I wonder what he means about understanding the material just by peeling away the layers of metaphor.

Frank

fkegan said:

Thanks for the explanation of Bruce's view of the Yi as part of an internal energy-chi practice. Seems he doesn't like oracle use of the Yi. The Yi was part of the standard training for Chinese Imperial Bureaucrats for centuries and Confucius consulted the oracle often for advice--seems Bruce has a rather limited view of the Oracle and when its appropriate to consult it.

I did enjoy his remarks about reading the Yi three times to have some idea about what the I Ching is to begin peeling away the layers of metaphor and understanding its terse, ancient and foreign language.

I remember working on translation with Gia-Fu and being impress how terse and filled with slogan metaphors it was. Of course, listening to Gia-Fu's work on the difference between the literal text and the Taoist implications from his childhood training I wonder what he means about understanding the material just by peeling away the layers of metaphor.

Frank

Click to expand...

Frank,
You can check out Bruce's biography, but in regard to what he wrote of the I Ching, I will mention he is a Taoist priest and he was adopted as a son by a Chinese Master, who transmitted his teaching to only two people - one was Bruce, the other , a Chinese man who is very successful in business in Hong Kong . When Bruce says he plays with the energies to teach you he isn't doing it "metaphorically." The Hexagrams, the trigrams, the energies are real. I recall he read between the gaps in attention of a person who attacked him and moved behind him to take him out without being seen. That's the I Ching. The Buddhists have a saying, "If you aren't in the street before you realize the house is on fire, it''s too late."

I did check out his biography and I recognized the Taoist style. I didn't read anything about his views upon the Yi Oracle which is different from the I Ching as a book chi patterns and practices.

How long did you work with him, and what of that work do you still practice?

Frank

I am not familiar with the Tao-tsang, the Taoist canon, which contains its liturgy, teachings on meditation, rituals and so on. Bruce , being a priest, knows it . My understanding is it it based on the I Ching (and Lao Tzu is considered one of the three chief Beings by the Taoists). I have witnessed some of the lengthy rituals and heard the chants. I would think divination is part of Taoist religious practice but I don't know how that may relate to how outsiders view the I Ching and/or use it for divination.
Perhaps it would be like trying to compare life on two different planets or worlds.

My chief interest in studying with Bruce was to learn meditation, especially the Water School methods. The Taoist cosmology and energy anatomy and the I Ching are basic to what he teaches, but that didn't include any relgious teaching.

There are many strands in Taoism, though the formal religion with liturgy and rituals doesn't make much sense to me. Taoism is the anarchist branch of religion. It is also very, very Chinese, so all the practices and detailed activities are just what the Chinese do. Hard to explain, its all about practicing hard yet not caring about it or taking it seriously. Gia-Fu was a mystical Taoist though he had a few decades of classical Chinese training in all the standard arts and philosophies before coming to the US just after WWII, and stayed when Mao took over.
Frank

Hello ;
This is another point of view regarding the I Ching and martial arts and qigong.It is also what I have been studying for the past two years.
http://www.ninedragonbaguazhang.com/yijing.htm
Sergio