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bamboo

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I am writing a screenplay about Clarity and the fascinating relationships here both with Yi and with each other. If I ever decide to send this to a publisher, i would ask hilary's permission and that of any participants ( altho my work will be fiction based on facts).........however....would any of you mind telling the story here of how you met Yi, what your initial impressions were, what your first queries were, and what most valuable thing have you gotten from the relationship, why does it hold your interest, and so on and so forth?

ALSO: what is your word of advice to those who have just discovered the Book of Changes.......any and all of the above.....I want to have a lot of reality meat with which to cook my stew.
 

charly

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... would any of you mind telling the story here of how you met Yi, what your initial impressions were, what your first queries were, and what most valuable thing have you gotten from the relationship, why does it hold your interest, and so on and so forth?... what is your word of advice to those who have just discovered the Book of Changes...
Bamboo:

I adhere, but need some time. Maybe I will post by parts, each one mixing some story with some advice. Perhaps, some slices of life. With a little of chinese, of course, and some slang if you don't feel hurt.

All the best,

Charly
 

Sparhawk

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would any of you mind telling the story here of how you met Yi, what your initial impressions were, what your first queries were, and what most valuable thing have you gotten from the relationship, why does it hold your interest, and so on and so forth?

I blame my mother! No, she still doesn't know the difference between "I Ching" and "itching" but it was one of her old magazines I picked up, circa 1974 or thereabouts, that had an article about the Yi. Boredom? Nothing in the 4 B&W TV channels we had back then in Uruguay? Lack of a girlfriend? No Playboy around? I'll never know... :D The thing was that I became an instant Yi junkie. Cool thing when you are a teen that could do fortune telling for friends... :rofl:
 

bamboo

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Bamboo:

I adhere, but need some time. Maybe I will post by parts, each one mixing some story with some advice. Perhaps, some slices of life. With a little of chinese, of course, and some slang if you don't feel hurt.

All the best,

Charly

sounds great! dont mind slang at all:) thank you
 

bamboo

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I blame my mother! No, she still doesn't know the difference between "I Ching" and "itching" but it was one of her old magazines I picked up, circa 1974 or thereabouts, that had an article about the Yi. Boredom? Nothing in the 4 B&W TV channels we had back then in Uruguay? Lack of a girlfriend? No Playboy around? I'll never know... :D The thing was that I became an instant Yi junkie. Cool thing when you are a teen that could do fortune telling for friends... :rofl:

wow, cool that you were a teenager. so I see this kid (looking remarkably like the handsome young man we recently saw eating a fried scorpion) picking up a magazine of his mom's and seeing an article about something called I Ching. What happened next? did he go off a bookstore and find a copy of wilhelm? And what was he thinking? how did he first decide to make cast, and can you remember what the first question was, and the first response?
(not letting you off the hook that easy:mischief:)
 

bradford

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Luis-
Did your mom subscribe to Scientific American, perhaps?

Hi Bamboo-
I was turned onto the WB version in 1968 by a fairly wild college friend.
We'd mostly discuss the Yi and Nietzsche.
I only dabbled, not infrequently, until about 1971, when I apprenticed to
a witch who got me studying Tarot, Qabalah and Astrology as well as magick.
Then I started to see them all as languages that were related in concept,
if not always historically.
By 1976 I thought I knew enough to write a book, so I wrote a bad one,
although it had some good ideas.
I rewrote that in the mid-eighties, but still didn't know Chinese.
Ditto in the early nineties, when I learned I couldn't do a decent job
without learning Chinese, a significant but worthwhile detour.
Did the first draft of what you've seen before 2000, and tinkered with that
up until last winter.
Problem with writing on this subject is it keeps trying to Change on you.
 

my_key

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Hi Bamboo

Provided I get a signed copy of the screenplay manuscript :)

I bumped into the I Ching fairly late in life - or did it bump into me? Having taken an interest in things psychological in the late 90s and being drawn towards self development in all sorts of ways. I reached a point of synchronistic intersection of Jung and spirituality when I came across a Brockenhurst Press "Guide to the I Ching" at the meditation group I was attending in 2005. No one else in the group understood it and so there was the challenge to become the first. It offered probability, randomness and an off-beat structured way to problem solve which I thought would be a real plus as at the time I was working in Business / Engineering Change Management. Wow !! Logical western left brain meets the esoteric East - a match made in heaven.

Initally the driver for me was to understand "how it worked" from a mathematical viewpoint but the call of the symbols grew louder and louder. Using it sceptically, at first, for personal and business guidance - it gradually became clear to me that when I listened it talked to me. And when I realised that I could play marbles with it as well then I was hooked.:)

I think because of the clear interaction and sense of participation in accessing it's wisdom it's study has been the backbone of much of the work I have done in recent years. I would expect like Brad, most of us have had (are still having) a similarly ecclectic apprenticeship and I would agree with him that there is but one language just different dialects.
What is your word of advice to those who have just discovered the Book of Changes.
If I'm only allowed one then it'll have to be supercalifragilisticexbealidocious.

Mike
 

bamboo

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Thank you both Brad and Mike. I think you can see what I mean when I say the storylines beind these accounts are so titillating.
I have an image of young Bradford, longhaired hippy intellectual, shirtless, laying out in the sun with his book and coins...the beginnings of the Rogue River Commentaries which have always enthralled me.
and now a white-collar engineer torn between his search for science and his growing fascination with symbols and how they were speaking to him.
anytime you all want to add pictoral details, particular readings, experiences, please feel free.
 
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bradford

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Thank you both Brad and Mike. I think you can see what I mean when I say the storylines beind these accounts are so tintillating.
I have an image of young Bradford, longhaired hippy intellectual, shirtless, laying out in the sun with his book and coins...the beginnings of the Rogue River Commentaries which have always enthralled me. and now a white-collar engineer torn between his search for science and his growing fascination with symbols and how they were speaking to him.
anytime you all want to add pictoral details, particular readings, experiences, please feel free.

Hi Bamboo
The first part's not far off at all. I was the resident scowler on the Big Sur commune, and a naked goatherder (wore clothes for the beekeeping though). But as to the white collar - I haven't worn a tie even once since my high school photo. And being self-taught in engineering, architecture and planning has allowed me to work for myself, barefoot, for most of my life, and average only about one day a week at that. Hence all the free time to study and write.
I guess another anecdote is warranted. One thing about writing the book over and over: the logical pace to do this is at one gua a day. Of course this becomes a little like an invocation, and so the day tends to fill up with both memories and new experiences that illustrate the meanings of the Gua du jour. This process, cycled through several times, became more of a foundation for my understanding than the practice of divination.
 

pantherpanther

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I am writing a screenplay about Clarity and the fascinating relationships here both with Yi and with each other. If I ever decide to send this to a publisher, i would ask hilary's permission and that of any participants ( altho my work will be fiction based on facts).........however....would any of you mind telling the story here of how you met Yi, what your initial impressions were, what your first queries were, and what most valuable thing have you gotten from the relationship, why does it hold your interest, and so on and so forth?

ALSO: what is your word of advice to those who have just discovered the Book of Changes.......any and all of the above.....I want to have a lot of reality meat with which to cook my stew.

bamboo,

In the 50's I got to read some of Carl Jung's unpublished (maybe still isn't?) stuff so that got me interested in the I Ching. I got to be a "friend " of the I Ching. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I didn't know in person. No way, no how. "Art is long. but life is short," as Goethe said. Don't play God. It is difficult to try to relate to the person before you in any situation. That is the way it is. You love or you fail, and you never give enough. "When it rains, the streets are wet," as Gurdjieff said. "We are one another." Friends are rare and precious. Know your friends and enemies well: both are necessary to learn to live . Avoid those who claim to know and don't, including the well-meaning ones , who are often no more than "virgins teaching pornography." You already know this if you think seriously, so what is your aim in solicting responses? That is an open "query" ! It will be interesting to read what you write as a result of your work.
The I Ching can assist in seeing the conditions. It can't make you accept them. A forum like Clarity provides an opportunity to learn and deserves our support.
 
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M

meng

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I'll play..

1966 - age 21, fresh out of the Navy, searching for and developing career path. Met college and musician friends at work, turned on, introduced to Jung and Wilhelm by best friend from high school.

The following years were about high minded idealism, spirituality, psychedelic drugs, sex, oracles, drugs, idealism, music, Carlos Castaneda, meditation, Krishna Consciousness, touring, singing, writing songs, wife and two sons.

20 years of various Christian practices, secretly connecting Biblical scriptures with I Ching metaphors, understanding Christ as the Great Man, who says "I am The Way, the truth and the life". The Way became a man? Hmm.. followed that path a long time.

2000, Divorce from first wife of 32 years, divorce of former religious practices and literal beliefs, divorce from a 20 year media career, beginning a decade of hexagrams 23 and 36.

Now in a Meng condition, with no idea what comes next.

:) Wish you inspiration with your screen play, Bamboo.
 

bamboo

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Hi Bamboo
The first part's not far off at all. I was the resident scowler on the Big Sur commune, and a naked goatherder (wore clothes for the beekeeping though). But as to the white collar - I haven't worn a tie even once since my high school photo. And being self-taught in engineering, architecture and planning has allowed me to work for myself, barefoot, for most of my life, and average only about one day a week at that. Hence all the free time to study and write.
I guess another anecdote is warranted. One thing about writing the book over and over: the logical pace to do this is at one gua a day. Of course this becomes a little like an invocation, and so the day tends to fill up with both memories and new experiences that illustrate the meanings of the Gua du jour. This process, cycled through several times, became more of a foundation for my understanding than the practice of divination.

That"s great stuff. love the goatherding image and the scowling resident. thank you

oh, the white collar engineer was referenced to Mykey. YOu and ties is something I never see in one image:)
 

Sparhawk

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Sorry, I've nothing as picturesque as Brad... :) Only to say that the Yi told me to move North, half of my life ago...
 

bradford

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That"s great stuff. love the goatherding image

How about this goat herding image? Bradford plays Giles Goat Boy in '73

73.jpg
 

bamboo

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bamboo,

In the 50's I got to read some of Carl Jung's unpublished (maybe still isn't?) stuff so that got me interested in the I Ching. I got to be a "friend " of the I Ching. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I didn't know in person. No way, no how. "Art is long. but life is short," as Goethe said. Don't play God. It is difficult to try to relate to the person before you in any situation. That is the way it is. You love or you fail, and you never give enough. "When it rains, the streets are wet," as Gurdjieff said. "We are one another." Friends are rare and precious. Know your friends and enemies well: both are necessary to learn to live . Avoid those who claim to know and don't, including the well-meaning ones , who are often no more than "virgins teaching pornography." You already know this if you think seriously, so what is your aim in solicting responses? That is an open "query" ! It will be interesting to read what you write as a result of your work.
The I Ching can assist in seeing the conditions. It can't make you accept them. A forum like Clarity provides an opportunity to learn and deserves our support.

Thanks Panther! interesting words. My aim in soliciting responses is not hear the wisdom of others, but to get snippets of real-life, imagery, and those tiny but great moments in personal histories. Ultimately, I would aim to write a work of fiction based on the kind of community that is here, interwoven with I Ching. I could always use my imagination, but over time here, in similar threads, the stories people have told are so unusual and imagery-inspiring that I wanted to ask again. I like to tell stories, and real life experiences are a great jumpingoff point. For instance, someone on this board - i forget who - told of how he found his first copy of the I ching when he discovered it was being used to hold up the broken leg of a bed. and another poster described finding a text when she was surreptitiously going through her hippy brother's bedroom. I am paraphrasing.

My own story involves falling in love with the beautiful figure of a muscular and sunny-smiling fisherman who used to load his lobster traps on his boat every morning right outside my window. weeks later, over Penne A la Vodka in an italian restaurant, he told me about this book he called the Eye Ching, a book he asked questions to and that answered him back!Up close, I thought he was a very strange guy and I was sure I never wanted to ask any questions to such a book. little did I know that the book would become my longest running love affair. to date.:eek:sigh. Is there a beloved as noble, and true, understanding and wise, as untiring, as faithful as dear old Yi? I can hope, right? :bows:Oh, did I mention my fictional work will include a love story? of course!
 

bamboo

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1966 - age 21, fresh out of the Navy, searching for and developing career path. Met college and musician friends at work, turned on, introduced to Jung and Wilhelm by best friend from high school.

The following years were about high minded idealism, spirituality, psychedelic drugs, sex, oracles, drugs, idealism, music, Carlos Castaneda, meditation, Krishna Consciousness, touring, singing, writing songs, wife and two sons.

20 years of various Christian practices, secretly connecting Biblical scriptures with I Ching metaphors, understanding Christ as the Great Man, who says "I am The Way, the truth and the life". The Way became a man? Hmm.. followed that path a long time.

2000, Divorce from first wife of 32 years, divorce of former religious practices and literal beliefs, divorce from a 20 year media career, beginning a decade of hexagrams 23 and 36.

Now in a Meng condition, with no idea what comes next.

:) Wish you inspiration with your screen play, Bamboo.

Thank you Bruce!
well, you and Luis sort of gave me resumes rather than the meaty snippets, but I sort of have gleaned enough about you both to use my imagination. all flattering of course:)
 

pantherpanther

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bamboo,
My best friend's suicide,in his early 20's, is linked in memory with my introduction to the I Ching. This is why I said I didn't wish to recommend it to others. The I Ching had nothing to do with his suicide - which seems to have been karma - but the possible consequences of inviting another to go into their unconscious when they might not be ready to do so is something I have learned to take seriously.This is partly why I went on as I did. I have seen many waste their lives by being drawn to teachings and gurus before they were ready. Perhaps there is something in this to consider when you write your book "about I Ching aficionados." The Clarity community is a positive and healthy one. But it includes many examples of how different people encounter and deal with the I Ching and themselves. Some may seek to escape from life and become more isolated and one-sided and use the I Ching in a negative way.
 
M

meng

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Thank you Bruce!
well, you and Luis sort of gave me resumes rather than the meaty snippets, but I sort of have gleaned enough about you both to use my imagination. all flattering of course:)

Oh, please don't feel it needs to be flattering. :mischief:;)
 

Sparhawk

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How about this goat herding image? Bradford plays Giles Goat Boy in '73

73.jpg

Hiking to the commune from far away home, $10.
Contributing free work herding goats, estimated few $$$ in labor.
Brad, decades later, mooning Clarity fellows, PRICELESS!! :rofl:
 

Sparhawk

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Oh, please don't feel it needs to be flattering. :mischief:;)

Hey! Speak for yourself. I'll take flattering, thank you... :rofl:
 

rodaki

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hi Bamboo :)

here goes my story too . .

8 years ago, visiting my best friend in London, at my wits' end, trying to 'detoxify' from my big, intense relationship with my jazz pianist partner, my friend mentions Yi -maybe it would help get a grip? Aw well, why not . .
That was my first encounter . . it lasted about 6 months . . she had already warned me about multiple translations and since I wouldn't trust whatever greek translations around I looked the internet and came across Lise's site. After some time I left everything concerning that chapter of my life behind and Yi went with it.

Fast forward 4 years . . already well into a different cycle which was reaching a high, decisive point, I'm making plans for a big move, highly debatable from most people around me . . I can certainly see why but it's hard to accept the regularity of settling down. Again at my wits' end, I remember Yi. Look around the internet again, since I wanted to look at something different this time . . came across Bradford's translation . . wow, this is . . well, you know what this is . .
I do remember my first reading this time around . . 61.4: off we go ;)
but life is too demanding to have time for contemplation and throwing coins -action is demanded, so no time for Yi.

they do say 3rd time's a charm right? Sometime over a year ago, having made my move and loving it mostly, but also dealing with some tough consequences, really missing my greatest support system, and well, I once again turn to Yi and haven't left it since :)

Too new in this to really offer advice, although I have been thinking lot's of 41.2 lately . . .

good luck with your writing -can't wait for the actual thing!!
 

bamboo

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bamboo,
My best friend's suicide,in his early 20's, is linked in memory with my introduction to the I Ching. This is why I said I didn't wish to recommend it to others. The I Ching had nothing to do with his suicide - which seems to have been karma - but the possible consequences of inviting another to go into their unconscious when they might not be ready to do so is something I have learned to take seriously.This is partly why I went on as I did. I have seen many waste their lives by being drawn to teachings and gurus before they were ready. Perhaps there is something in this to consider when you write your book "about I Ching aficionados." The Clarity community is a positive and healthy one. But it includes many examples of how different people encounter and deal with the I Ching and themselves. Some may seek to escape from life and become more isolated and one-sided and use the I Ching in a negative way.


Interesting thoughts. PP. maybe becoming isolated and one-sided is part of the process - for awhile - i know there were points in my life where I thought maybe i was too isolated and using the Yi more than was healthy...but when i reconnected to reallife people i would often discover that real life people are crazy as bedbugs!! At least Yi teaches self-trust, self-awareness, in the long haul anyway...

and I dont feel I ever escaped life by using Yi....it wasnt like a drug or an escape pleasure, it was always solid-feeling, gently bringing me into life, not out of it or under it.:bows:
 

my_key

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How about this goat herding image? Bradford plays Giles Goat Boy in '73

73.jpg

Great butt .......... and Bradford's.:)

Bamboo
Just for the record I've not had a white collar on in years and as for being an engineer, well...... although I've worked in an engineering environment for many years I see myself more as a process man.

Also great comments in your last post that I can relate to. When it bumped into me I guess I was in some self imposed isolation, working through lots of issues after the death of my father 2 years before, and since those early days where it was a in many ways a crutch. The more the Yi works with me the more it becomes a supportive positive influence on my life. Facing what life has to challenge me with by encouraging me to move to a place of trust, respect and intimacy with myself, that I would still be floundering to find without it.

it was always solid-feeling, gently bringing me into life, not out of it or under it.
Nice words.:bows:

Mike
 

charly

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Bamboo:

I meet the Changes for the first time in 1973, year of the Hector Cámpora presidential campaign (1).

Grace, a dear friend of mine, wife of my partner, was a professional «I-Chinger» while I myself was a Tarot amateur with a useless degree of psychologist and an incipient career as social researcher, say I had some marketing customers to whom I provided field work, data process and analysis.

1973 was a turning point in the history of my country. Héctor Cámpora won the elections with 49% of votes and, of course, few time later was forced to resign.

Till then I only used Marseille deck, with the help of Grace I begin trying with Waite deck and casting the coins with a not so good spanish version of Wilhelm-Baynes (2).

I had read a Legge based versión of the Changes made by a peruvian poet (3) but nothing to do. Wilhelm based Book was an inmediate source of insight, that book really did function not only for the purpose of fortune-telling, also for personal development (4) and, even better, for picking up all sort of girls.

And then, sudenly, I became an «I-Chinger» with my own style. So was how my life with the Changes does begin.


Moral:

There are key-points in the story of anybody: in each one there is a woman. Of course, first of all Mother, as passed to Luis.


Advice:

For becoming an «I-Chinger», out of motivation of course, you need:

  • A good book for reference, a book touching your feelings.
  • A strong personal involvement, something like friendship, love, gambling, politics...
  • A moment propice for change, interesting times in Camus' words.
  • At least one female voice speaking at your ears (5)
Better, but no excluding, to be young. This sort of thing happens at any age in our lifes, never is too late.

I read later another versions but remain using the W/B based till 2002 when, using Internet, I discovered LiSe, Steve Marshall, Bradford Hatcher, Harmen Mesker, Tony Saroop... and, like a little gecko, the curiosity for the chinese text. But this is another story.

(to be continued)

Yours,

Charly

__________________________
(1) Maybe, with A. Illia (less votes, 25%, but more time in charge before to be deprived of it), one of the few honest presidents of my country.

(2) Wilhem / Malke:Yi Ching, libro de las mutaciones, Lince, 1971.

(3) Mirko Lauer: I Ching - Barral, 1971.

(4) Of course, I was wrong, now I don't trust in self enlightment, but then I did.

(5) I wander what happens with girls, but I don't know. Maybe they also need a female voice.
 
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bradford

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If anybody cares to know them, there are proper terms for "Chinging" and "I-Chinger"
One who is not an adept is a Buren. A professional or someone really good is a Bushi.
Bu is the name for Yi divination. Ren is a person, Shi is an advanced student.
For those who don't know it, and despite what some fools claim, there are no "Masters"
of the Yi. Never were.
 

bamboo

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hi Bamboo :)

here goes my story too . .

8 years ago, visiting my best friend in London, at my wits' end, trying to 'detoxify' from my big, intense relationship with my jazz pianist partner, my friend mentions Yi -maybe it would help get a grip? Aw well, why not . .
That was my first encounter . . it lasted about 6 months . . she had already warned me about multiple translations and since I wouldn't trust whatever greek translations around I looked the internet and came across Lise's site. After some time I left everything concerning that chapter of my life behind and Yi went with it.

Fast forward 4 years . . already well into a different cycle which was reaching a high, decisive point, I'm making plans for a big move, highly debatable from most people around me . . I can certainly see why but it's hard to accept the regularity of settling down. Again at my wits' end, I remember Yi. Look around the internet again, since I wanted to look at something different this time . . came across Bradford's translation . . wow, this is . . well, you know what this is . .
I do remember my first reading this time around . . 61.4: off we go ;)
but life is too demanding to have time for contemplation and throwing coins -action is demanded, so no time for Yi.

they do say 3rd time's a charm right? Sometime over a year ago, having made my move and loving it mostly, but also dealing with some tough consequences, really missing my greatest support system, and well, I once again turn to Yi and haven't left it since :)

Too new in this to really offer advice, although I have been thinking lot's of 41.2 lately . . .

good luck with your writing -can't wait for the actual thing!!

beautiful, Rodaki! I think the yi might even be very kindly disposed to those once-in-a-while-visits. Love the details you provided. nothing like a jazz pianist to get one divining. I love the 61.4 response too...one of my favorite lines.....and 41 has become one of my favorite hexagrams over time...the bare essentials are what's often most precious. I like LiSe's take on 41.2

ahhhh, the "actual thing"....well, needless to say, no one should hold their breath:eek:because I love to write but my projects are slow moving. However, I am inspired by this one, and it is fun. thank you so much.
 

charly

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If anybody cares to know them, there are proper terms for "Chinging" and "I-Chinger"
One who is not an adept is a Buren. A professional or someone really good is a Bushi.
Bu is the name for Yi divination. Ren is a person, Shi is an advanced student.
For those who don't know it, and despite what some fools claim, there are no "Masters"
of the Yi. Never were.
Brad:

Why don´t you adress and sign your posts?

I used "I-Chinger" because in 1973 in my country nobody spoke of YI chinese texts, but much people that read english books used it.

Titles and degrees even in chinese are no part of the persons, nobody is a master nor a doctor, only that some peole are called so. Some titles have legal regulations, other not.

I never claimed to be a master, even more I´m not very fond of «masters». Any good person can use the Changes without knowing chinese or without being masters, with good results.

When really bad persons use the Changes no knowlegde is enough for making good persons of them.


One reason by which I try to tanslate the text from the chinese is that I like it and think that for others can be useful in a little messure, maybe for making their own paths.

Given that I´m not a master, my posts are always oppinable and I use to say «maybe» and to attach documented sources for anybody that wanted to verify it.

Maybe you were not speaking of me, but I felt hurt. If you were speaking of another persons good to say of which.

Yours,:bows:

Charly

____________________
P.D.: I used «professional» in the sense she get paid for her work in consulting the Changes and this was her means of life.

Ch.
 
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bradford

(deceased)
Clarity Supporter
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Brad:
Maybe you were not speaking of me, but I felt hurt. If you were speaking of another persons good to say of which.
Charly

You poor innocent -
That was not about you
 

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