Question to Yi

How can best recoup my financial losses from
my business?

answer 44 -

does that mean by using feminine?
I am doing holistic work and am interested in life
strategy coaching. But ideally I would like to set
up a clutch businesses to provide a passive income
based on all my past experience

These would be oriented to the feminine - clothes
house home - housekeeping line and catering

I do not know whether 44 is good or bad and have
looked through the forums - so stumped for interp

What's a clutch business?

hopex said:

Question to Yi

How can best recoup my financial losses from
my business?

answer 44 -

does that mean by using feminine?I am doing holistic work and am interested in life
strategy coaching. But ideally I would like to set
up a clutch businesses to provide a passive income
based on all my past experience

These would be oriented to the feminine - clothes
house home - housekeeping line and catering

I do not know whether 44 is good or bad and have
looked through the forums - so stumped for interp

Click to expand...

No. 44 really is not about a woman ! People keep going on and on is if it were about some mythical woman. Piling on philosphies to do with women when it isn't even about women, strong women, or men. The most annoying misconception is that this strong woman relates to some kind of feisty feminist attitude or something....it isn't its just a symbol

The female here is just a symbol for something that may deflect one from ones path, like a temptation. A woman may deflect a man form his path like a tempatation via her sexuality but in this case hes advised not to marry her. If he mates with her not to seek to make it more than that, not a permanent liason. So forget this is symbolised by a woman instead make it anything at all that may temporarily derail you in the way a man may be 'led astray' but an attractive woman. That you might connect with briefly for good or ill, but that you can't make part of your everyday life.

Mostly I expereince 44 as an outer factor intruding upon my time or person in a way I cannot accomodate. Sometimes though it may bring something..an heir ? But nevertheless it doesn't make a permanent way of going on. 44 can be your mother in law coming to stay for a week and throwing your entire life upside down...but you may get something from the visit...but heck she can't live with you.


Plus you know by know now there is no such thing as a good or bad hexagram, theres a sticky on it

I've no idea what this answer means in answer to your question. I think your question may be a little too broad. perhaps its easier to come up with ideas one at a time and ask about them


I wonder what a clutch business is too....car clutches ? nah can't be that...internet stuff ?


You could pursue the meaning of 44 as an answer here but i don't think its saying 'do something feminine'

sincere apologies - I had a long journey yesterday and
a few things going on around me with my sister and a
friend over pressing health issues.

I think this may be the derailing 44 refers to

I meant to write a clutch of businesses - namely
set up the businesses, to build a portfolio of
businesses. They would be around the home and
fashion - dont talk about car clutches, my bad
driving has ruined every clutch on every car I
have owned - but maybe theres a thought......

Thanks Trojan - I do get what you say. I have
in the main used the i ching to ask about relationships
and sure enough the answer 44 always signified a
dalliance as opposed to anything meaningful

Nowadays I want to ask about things like career and
health and wider relationships - so I am having to
make a deeper acquaintance with the hexagrams

I am thinking the Yi is referring to something distracting
me ----- cul de sacs

I will break my enquiry down - thanks

hopex said:

I meant to write a clutch of businesses - namely
set up the businesses, to build a portfolio of
businesses.

Click to expand...

clutch 2
n.
1. The complete set of eggs produced or incubated at one time.
2. A brood of chickens.
3. A group; a bunch.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/clutch

several businesses grouped together or
considered as a whole -

as in the thesaurus under batch

Follow the yellow brick road..follow the yellow brick road..follow.. follow ..follow the yellow brick road..

hopex said:

Question to Yi

How can best recoup my financial losses from
my business?
answer 44 -
does that mean by using feminine?

Click to expand...

Nothing to do with feminine. Get frugal.
Tighten up your act and avoid distractions.

hopex said:

I think this may be the derailing 44 refers to

I meant to write a clutch of businesses - namely
set up the businesses, to build a portfolio of
businesses. They would be around the home and
fashion - dont talk about car clutches, my bad
driving has ruined every clutch on every car I
have owned - but maybe theres a thought......

Click to expand...

There's something about the mindset which burns up clutches that feels 44 to me. Riding a clutch is a way of being aggressive, but not going anywhere, and rather than simply applying the brakes to stop and idle, you ride that clutch, while keeping the engine revved up. I would consider and apply this 44 feeling to your approach of setting up a home/fashion business. You're riding the clutch, and it'll probably burn out too quickly, and you won't get a lot of mileage from it.

But - It could spark an outgrowth of a different model. (the heir)

trojan said:

No. 44 really is not about a woman ! People keep going on and on is if it were about some mythical woman. Piling on philosphies to do with women when it isn't even about women, strong women, or men. The most annoying misconception is that this strong woman relates to some kind of feisty feminist attitude or something....it isn't its just a symbol

Click to expand...

sorry but i have to say that you are wrong!
44 is about a woman a strong one, one that live and act like a man.
lower trigram Sunn describe a midle age Lady, a women that like to live her life alone, possible widow. the lower trigram says you who concretely the person is.. in this case a independent woman.
while the upper trigram kienn, say you how she act!!! like a man-leader.
obviously it's also a symbol... but not only, it depend mostly from the questions.

edit: a new not expected figure at the time of the yi, is the female manager figure and the equal rights between men and women.

patro said:

sorry but i have to say that you are wrong!
44 is about a woman a strong one, one that live and act like a man.
lower trigram Sunn describe a midle age Lady, a women that like to live her life alone, possible widow. the lower trigram says you who concretely the person is.. in this case a independent woman.
while the upper trigram kienn, say you how she act!!! like a man-leader.
obviously it's also a symbol... but not only, it depend mostly from the questions.

edit: a new not expected figure at the time of the yi, is the female manager figure and the equal rights between men and women.

Click to expand...

erm well obviously 44 uses a woman as a symbol but one can hardly go scouting around for anything female in the situation when one gets 44 for an answer for everything from where to relocate to which garage is best. What relevance does modern gender politics have to such questions...it doesn't, we put it there because of looking through 21st century lenses at the words 'strong woman'


Where you are wrong I think is linking this woman who 'cannot be possessed' in with modern day gender politics. It has absolutely nothing to do with equal rights between men and women...nor even a woman who 'acts like a man' (? which could mean anything) Thats modern day values plastered over something that isn't there. Shes a woman that mustn't be married....that doesn't mean she acts like a man (or since she can produce an heir would she be thought of as middle aged if you have to personify her to this degree...hair colour , eye colour ? ) I think it says alot about modern attitudes that the woman in 44 is always taken so literally..with some women here saying ' I got 44 am i the 'strong woman' thinking the 44 must be about them since they are women. All too literal, all totally missing the point IMO


But these discussions on 44 have gone around several times now...but unfortunately the view persists that 44 represents some kind of feminism...or just the feminine, as if people really can't get past a literal view of it. Perhaps its its seductive entrapping nature that traps people in that materialistic view (wink)


BTW, just out of interest, in terms of your view of 44 how would you interpret Hopex answer here ?

trojan said:

erm well obviously 44 uses a woman as a symbol but one can hardly go scouting around for anything female in the situation when one gets 44 for an answer for everything from where to relocate to which garage is best. What relevance does modern gender politics have to such questions...it doesn't, we put it there because of looking through 21st century lenses at the words 'strong woman'


Where you are wrong I think is linking this woman who 'cannot be possessed' in with modern day gender politics. It has absolutely nothing to do with equal rights between men and women...nor even a woman who acts like a man. Thats modern day values plastered over something that isn't there. Shes a woman that mustn't be married....that doesn't mean she acts like a man (or since she can produce an heir would she be thought of as middle aged if you have to personify her to this degree...hair colour , eye colour ? ) I think it says alot about modern attitudes that the woman in 44 is always taken so literally..with some women here saying ' I got 44 am i the 'strong woman' thinking the 44 must be about them since they are women. All too literal, all totally missing the point IMO


But these discussions on 44 have gone around several times now...but unfortunately the view persists that 44 represents some kind of feminism...or just the feminine, as if people really can't get past a literal view of it. Perhaps its its seductive entrapping nature that traps people in that materialistic view (wink)

Click to expand...

again, try to read the book at first... try to get the fact that the hexagrams are based on the meaning of the trigrams, on the nuclear one and the lines connection established between them and inside the hex.... take in mind that the trigrams are symbols and they are stilized simple chinese ideograms.
your joke about the eye color show that there is a part of the book and of the interpretation that you deliberately omit. this is not the first ever time i discussed about the symbolism of the Yi with you.... but you are still showing a closed thought about.

you know about, but i think that you also not take in mind that the book was written about 3000 years ago... with a radicate castes and classes subdivisions.... taking this a part let you thought about in a wrong way.
I understand that you see the thinking about 44 as a anti femminist thingi... but it isn't.

the woman in 44 is one that mustn't be married just because her goal isn't the family, if such a woman want to marry a man it's not because she is seeing him as the right man to ground a family... she see him as a convenience only. she could left him once she see a better alternative. she is an opportunist.
in the book is written that the woman must have virtue, constancy and durability, while the man has to change ideas, must be has adaptability when a situation change the status.

about this:

edit: a new not expected figure at the time of the yi, is the female manager figure and the equal rights between men and women.

Click to expand...

you misunderstood... because i meant... if the book would be written in this days the 44 wouldn't have the image of a "strong woman" but the one of an opportunist.
today 44 stay for a male and female opportunist or a situation of opportunity, or that you have to take the opportunity with which you are gift.
but if a man get this answer in a love question.. well he has to not marry that woman!!!

trojan said:

BTW, just out of interest, in terms of your view of 44 how would you interpret Hopex answer here ?

Click to expand...

the yi answered here that there is an opportunity coming for her, she can't see it coming.
probably it's an idea or a person from the past, once it will be happen she need to put attention on that.

patro said:

again, try to read the book at first... try to get the fact that the hexagrams are based on the meaning of the trigrams, on the nuclear one and the lines connection established between them and inside the hex.... take in mind that the trigrams are symbols and they are stilized simple chinese ideograms.
your joke about the eye color show that there is a part of the book and of the interpretation that you deliberately omit. this is not the first ever time i discussed about the symbolism of the Yi with you.... but you are still showing a closed thought about.

you know about, but i think that you also not take in mind that the book was written about 3000 years ago... with a radicate castes and classes subdivisions.... taking this a part let you thought about in a wrong way.

Click to expand...

I'm not excluding trigram meanings here at all, the creative/heaven over wind. I think you actually misunderstood my first post and assumed I meant something I didn't.

I understand that you see the thinking about 44 as a anti femminist thingi... but it isn't.

Click to expand...

no, you misunderstand me i don't see it as anti feminist or anything remotely connected with feminism

the woman in 44 is one that mustn't be married just because her goal isn't the family, if such a woman want to marry a man it's not because she is seeing him as the right man to ground a family... she see him as a convenience only. she could left him once she see a better alternative. she is an opportunist.
in the book is written that the woman must have virtue, constancy and durability, while the man has to change ideas, must be has adaptability when a situation change the status.

Click to expand...

An opportunist ? Thats interesting. Would 44 be better called 'The Opportunist' now ? It makes sense becasue 44 often crops up around being used by others in an opportunistic way. I agree with what you say...but my point earler to Hopex is exactly this, that one cannot take the woman in 44 as literally the feminine or a woman or gender stuff at all...it is more like as you say a picture of something/someone coming an opportunity that might grab one for the use one has, or one might grab it for the use it has...and thats it, one doesn't 'marry' it, make a long lasting binding contract with it...as ever i return to Knots answer of 44 re jump starting a car.

Hopex asked does 44 mean i need to do 'something feminine', my point was one cannot take the woman too literally here and people do all the time. Ultimatley, in our answers, this is generally not about men and women , its a metaphor...and you have agreed with me on that. The example of a woman who does not want to settle is just an example...not literal generally though who knows it may be occasionally

about this:

you misunderstood... because i meant... if the book would be written in this days the 44 wouldn't have the image of a "strong woman" but the one of an opportunist.today 44 stay for a male and female opportunist or a situation of opportunity, or that you have to take the opportunity with which you are gift.
but if a man get this answer in a love question.. well he has to not marry that woman!!!

Click to expand...

interesting word to use and not one I've previously seen for 44 but it does fit.

the yi answered here that there is an opportunity coming for her, she can't see it coming.
probably it's an idea or a person from the past, once it will be happen she need to put attention on that.

Click to expand...

Mmm...44 represents an opportunity coming ? Maybe but i'd check the small print

trojan said:

No. 44 really is not about a woman ! People keep going on and on is if it were about some mythical woman. Piling on philosphies to do with women when it isn't even about women, strong women, or men. The most annoying misconception is that this strong woman relates to some kind of feisty feminist attitude or something....it isn't its just a symbol

Click to expand...

so... from what i'm reading from your first post, there isn't much i could misunderstood! but i could be wrong!
44 is about a woman as well.. and about something others.... depends from the question.
for Hopex it's an upcoming opportunity.... the question was about business.

I'm beginning to think think there are a lot more people than I thought who are just incapable of comprehending metaphor. And that makes it less surprising that the modern academics, not known for great imagination, believe that the Zhouyi authors were incapable of it as well.

bradford said:

I'm beginning to think think there are a lot more people than I thought who are just incapable of comprehending metaphor. And that makes it less surprising that the modern academics, not known for great imagination, believe that the Zhouyi authors were incapable of it as well.

Click to expand...

to who are you referring?

what's a meta for?

http://janan.members.sonic.net/ching/main.html#44

kinda helps as well - distracting financial propositions

anything that glistens is not gold - not doing that ride the
clutch thing and wing along on hip looking ventures, stop
check, and advance when safeto do so