Is there an other woman in his life? Hex 55

springflower · Apr 6, 2016

Hi! I have some suspicions recently that there is an other woman in my ex fiance life. I asked I ching and the answer is hex 55.

I think there is.

Tim K · Apr 6, 2016

Lower trigram signifies middle daughter, upper trigram - eldest son (ex-fiance).
Could be that he is involved with slightly younger woman yes.

Also as 55 says, Wilhelm: Be not sad. Be like the sun at midday.
Cheer up and forget about him

springflower · Apr 6, 2016

Thank you asteroid for your answer. It's difficult to smile when you feel broken.

Sixth Relative · Apr 6, 2016

Hi springflower

From a text-based interpretation:
The Yijing, in one of it's wings, states that Feng (hex 55 in the received secuence) means abundance of worries. The Judgment states: When the king is enlightened there is no need to fear a change. [Legge]. One of the metaphors for Feng is an eclipse. Fears, worries, are like the moon preventing the sun to shine on earth. Fears makes you lose your clarity. Therefore, the theme of 55 is how to move from worries to clarity; how to overcome the eclipse due to worries and fear.

I'd say 55 invites you to overcome the fear of him being involved with another woman; that idea/fear is an eclipse, temporal lack of enlightment. Let it pass.

From a Wen Wang Gua perspective, it seems like the answer is not.
For an indication of another woman in his life, the line representing him should produce and/or combine with the line with the Wife relative OR the Guest line should have the Wife relative OR the Wife line being active.

In 55 unchanging, the Wife relative is Wu (fire): it is not in the Guest line and it is not active. None of the possible lines able to represent him produce nor combine with the line with the Wife realtive.

So, I'd say there is not another woman right now. There could be an exception for this interpretation, though: if the day when you tossed the coins clashes with the Wife line or with a line producing the Wife line. To be sure about the interpretation, it would be necessary to know the date and hour when ypo tossed the coins.

Best wishes

Trojina · Apr 6, 2016

springflower said:
Hi! I have some suspicions recently that there is an other woman in my ex fiance life. I asked I ching and the answer is hex 55.

I think there is.

Well you will need to go by what you think as your answer does not tell you either way. That is there is nothing here or elsewhere in Yi that will tell you categorically if he has another woman. If you want fact use ways to ascertain facts. If you want a 'yes' or a 'no' to a question you may as well simply toss a coin.

What would you see 55 as saying and where in the text does you get the idea he has another woman ? The information you seek is not here, try other means.

springflower · Apr 6, 2016

Sixth relative and trojina thank you both for your answers.
Sixth relative I think you are right.Abundance of worries and especially fear make sense for me..

Also, Trojina could you please help me with the 1 coin divination?

Sixth Relative · Apr 6, 2016

Hi

1 coin: you decide which side of the coin is yes and which one is no. Then you toss it.

Asking a yes/no question to Yijing is not the same than asking a yes/no question with 1 coin, though. Because with one coin, you get yes or no and that's it; and with Yijing you don't get only yes or no but why yes or why no. That makes all the difference in the world.

Ok, the point is: for some trends of Western culture, it is unacceptable the practice of divination as "merely" predictive or "merely"yes/no; these are seen as a minor and less valuable use of the oracle. The real use of the oracle is to gain "insight" (most of the time, psychological insight. IMO, this has to do with some values of Western culture: the importance of own free will, a proactive rather than pasive attitude, the myth of self-made person, etc. And that is ok, "insight" questions are valuable and helpful... and nobody is forced to use the Yi as it was used in ancient times. The problem comes when what is a personal opinion and personal choice is presented as a matter of fact ("the Yi doesn't answer yes/no", "the Yi doesn't predict the future", "the Yi is to be used for predictions" "it's a waste to use the Yi as a therapist" etc).

Well, each one is to decide how to use and understand the Yi. Hopefully, the differences would be a richness.

Best wishes

Trojina · Apr 6, 2016

I often ask yes/no questions but don't feel they are best for beginners. I can often get some kind of idea from a yes/no question for myself because I have consulted for a long time hence have my own relationship with Yi. I also ask for predictions sometimes. But here springflower asks for a fact, she wants to know if he is cheating. As far as I am concerned she cannot act on advice from Yi here as if it were a fact because well it is open to interpretation and does not constitute a fact. It would be wrong to judge the man guilty purely on the basis of a Yi cast.

You said

From a Wen Wang Gua perspective, it seems like the answer is not.

You say 'it seems like' so you aren't sure, you aren't stating it as fact and indeed could not state it as fact since you do not know.

Yes it is up to everyone how to use the Yi, I was merely offering springflower my perspective on how she is using Yi with her question here. I don't see it as a useful question because whatever anyone says she still won't know if he is cheating. I feel she would be better to ask about her own position. That is just my view which I express.

My point to you springflower is merely that to decide a fact by flipping a coin is a very flimsy basis on which to act. It was not a serious suggestion. You want to know if there is another woman in his life. Some might say there is, some might say there isn't. None of them/us actually knows for sure. If you want to find out a fact for sure you do need actual evidence in this case.

Oh and to the cast 55uc suggests to me you know all you need to know right now, you already probably have enough evidence either way. How will you act on that evidence, or lack of it as the case may be, is up to you. What evidence do you have and is it enough to act on or confront him about ?

I have copied the Image from Hilary's translation in WikiWing. The Image is especially useful with unchanging hexagrams

'Thunder and lightning culminate as one.
In this way, the noble one decides legal proceedings and brings about punishment.'

Thunder and lightning, action and insight, come together. The storm is overhead. You've gathered everything together, now take the decision, accept the consequences. Act. .

So it does seem time to act but it doesn't say which way. You do need to weigh up the evidence.

Sixth Relative · Apr 7, 2016

Hi Trojina

Trojina said:
You say 'it seems like' so you aren't sure, you aren't stating it as fact and indeed could not state it as fact since you do not know.

Just to be clear. I said "it seems like..." because I don't know the day and hour when the coins were tossed. That's why I also said "...I'd say there is not another woman right now. There could be an exception for this interpretation, though: if the day when you tossed the coins clashes with the Wife line or with a line producing the Wife line.To be sure about the interpretation, it would be necessary to know the date and hour when ypo tossed the coins". [ Emphasis added]

Best wishes

springflower · Apr 7, 2016

Well.. we talked on the phone. He insists that there is no other woman and he has more serious problems to deal with. I believe him. His sister confirmed that days ago. Also, he blame me for not be able to support him and caring only for my needs. He wants to prove him that I deserve to be with him.

Trojina · Apr 7, 2016

Sixth Relative said:
Hi Trojina

Just to be clear. I said "it seems like..." because I don't know the day and hour when the coins were tossed. That's why I also said "...I'd say there is not another woman right now. There could be an exception for this interpretation, though: if the day when you tossed the coins clashes with the Wife line or with a line producing the Wife line.To be sure about the interpretation, it would be necessary to know the date and hour when ypo tossed the coins". [ Emphasis added]

Best wishes

This is where we must simply agree to disagree somewhat

I personally do not think certainty about what this man was doing could be ascertained via weng wang gua or any other divination method regardless of time or date. Having said that, yes, a psychic or someone skilled in any kind of divination may well have a very good inkling for example that her client's partner is cheating on her but even then, even if the psychic/diviner felt they knew for sure, in my own opinion it would be rather unethical to present this as a fact for they may have undue influence on the client and I feel it undesirable to convince a client of some fact that only they can find out for themselves, especially so if the question is around the guilt or innocence of another human being.

That is genuinely my view so sometimes when I see people asking for facts through Yi I want to give them my view on it. I am glad springflower went to this man and had a talk with him. I hope he is telling the truth but I think unless there is good evidence otherwise we must assume he is telling the truth. However....

He wants to prove him that I deserve to be with him

I don't like how that sounds. What kind of man says to his partner she must prove to him that she deserves to with him ? A raging egomaniac by the sound of it. But I don't know the situation or what has gone on between you but well I find his attitude questionable to say the least. It sounds more arrogant than loving but then again maybe he was upset that you suspected him of having an affair ?

rosada · Apr 7, 2016

Trojina,
I notice you referred to the man as "cheating." I'm thinking maybe you missed that she called him her "ex" which would mean they are no longer in a committed relationship and also might mean his telling her that he needs proof she "deserves to be with him" is not arrogance but him simply explaining why he broke off the engagement. Not a biggie but I just thought I'd point that out in case it alters your impression of the situation.
Rosada

Trojina · Apr 7, 2016

rosada said:
Trojina,
I notice you referred to the man as "cheating." I'm thinking maybe you missed that she called him her "ex" which would mean they are no longer in a committed relationship and also might mean his telling her that he needs proof she "deserves to be with him" is not arrogance but him simply explaining why he broke off the engagement. Not a biggie but I just thought I'd point that out in case it alters your impression of the situation.
Rosada

Ah yes, you're right I sort of missed he is her ex. I guess when she used the phrase 'another woman' I assumed she was still with him. Yes it does change my idea that this is arrogance. Thanks for pointing it out.

Although I still think it shows some arrogance that she is meant to prove she is worthy of him but then I don't know the situation.

springflower · Apr 7, 2016

Hope I could explain who is at fault and what is going on here. Anyway, really thank you for your support and answers.

innertruth · Apr 7, 2016

maybe you asked in a state of being overwhelmed with suspicions...
i got 55 unchanging when my emotions were just screaming through concentration before reading...

it is showing it's too much what you have ...

But surprisingly for whatever reason you are overwhelmed - YOU SHOULD NOT BE SAD!

THis is so true. He might have, he might not have. BUt know your worth and remember
YOU GOT NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!
STAY CALM AND SHINING!

diamanda · Apr 7, 2016

Is there another woman? The answer is 55 "plenty". 55 is also a hexagram which very often turns up unchanging when a relationship is over.

But, there's hope - you'll have plenty opportunities to love again (someone new). Go for something better, find someone who loves you. Not a psychopath who pretends he can't see you love him. I mean, come on, you've made your love more than obvious. This guy is toying with you.

rosada · Apr 7, 2016

I see 55.The Sun at Midday, as meaning everything is out in the open...and therefore if you don't have obvious evidence of another woman then none exists because there is nothing hidden going on here.

---
And thus we have a clear example of why yes-or-no questions are discouraged - convincing arguments can be made for interpreting the hexagrams either way!

Sixth Relative · Apr 7, 2016

rosada said:
And thus we have a clear example of why yes-or-no questions are discouraged - convincing arguments can be made for interpreting the hexagrams either way!

Well, that is one way to look at it. Another one: "and thus we have a clear example on why text-based interpretations are discouraged - convincing arguments can be made for interpreting the hexagrams either way!"

Yet another one: "and thus we have a clear example on why Yijing divination is discouraged - convincing arguments can be made for interpreting the hexagrams either way!" Certainly our missed friend Chris Lofting would say that.

Fact is: no matter the method, and no matter the question phrased, you can always come with a convincing argument for an alternative interpretation

best wishes

diamanda · Apr 7, 2016

rosada said:
And thus we have a clear example of why yes-or-no questions are discouraged - convincing arguments can be made for interpreting the hexagrams either way!

Convincing arguments can be made for interpreting 'either way' no matter how the question was phrased. Yes/no questions are an integral part of human nature.

rosada · Apr 7, 2016

I just now consulted the I Ching asking for guidance as to how to phrase the questions and got 62uc which I thought was totally appropriate. To me this means one should try to be very explicit, down to earth about what one is asking (don't try to make one question give all the answers) and to be "exceptionally conscientious" (Wilhelm). No mention of yes or no questions...

Sixth Relative · Apr 8, 2016

And yet...

... yes/no question are lower questions (aka, is a lower use of the oracle) than "what do i need to know about..." questions;

...another take: normally asking yes/no questions is less sophisticated than asking questions for "insight"

... another take: in the long history of the Yijing's flight, a yes/no question is closer to it's nest (Yijing's beginings as an oracle) than "what is the potential for ..." questions.

... another take: you're flying too high asking how to phrase the question, keep it simple (then, yes/no question is as valid as any other question)

... etc

Again: You can always come with convincing arguments for an alternative interpretation

diamanda · Apr 8, 2016

And yet another aspect: if one is so annoyed by yes/no questions, perhaps best to avoid answering them, rather than trying to convince all posters to not ask such questions. There are lots of stickies to advise posters on how to form questions, it's a bit of an overkill to start the same discussion in every such thread.

Trojina · Apr 8, 2016

I can't say I've seen anyone 'annoyed' by yes/no questions. Comments on them made are intended to be helpful for the person. Shared readings is not only a place to hand out readings but also to share and reflect on how questions are formed and so on and also share one's whole perspective. Ideally people come also to share and learn not only to receive interpretations from others. So who is to say what is 'overkill' ? I don't see that yes/no questions have been discussed in every thread anyway. If now and then people do discuss questions I think it's a good thing to help the person asking to think about their own questions. Although various points of view may be tediously repetitive to you remember the questioner may not have heard them before.

The answer is 55 "plenty". 55 is also a hexagram which very often turns up unchanging when a relationship is over

Hmmm I hadn't noticed that. Have you seen this many times ?

springflower · Apr 8, 2016

diamanda said:
Is there another woman? The answer is 55 "plenty". 55 is also a hexagram which very often turns up unchanging when a relationship is over.

But, there's hope - you'll have plenty opportunities to love again (someone new). Go for something better, find someone who loves you. Not a psychopath who pretends he can't see you love him. I mean, come on, you've made your love more than obvious. This guy is toying with you.

I would like to agree with you but do you really believe that love means that you have to give up with the first difficulty? Every couple struggle a lot till to find a balance. I know a lot of examples. People who borke up and manage to be together again and marry. I believe our broke up was a mistake he also told me the same thing. He doesn't close me the door. He told me is just a pause and prove me that you can support me. Trojina is right if someone doesn't want a relationship he just confess that. 55 and 63 perhaps show a cycle is over. But what about a new one for us? I asked Iching and I don't think it's over:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...ationship-finished-hex-63&p=222925#post222925
I think I shouldn't undertake any action and leave him alone. He will come to me when the time is ripe.

Of course I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to share it.

Sixth Relative · Apr 8, 2016

Hi trojina

Trojina said:
Hmmm I hadn't noticed that. Have you seen this many times ?

I have. A lot of times. The first time I made a reading for another person it was for a coworker. She asked me to do a divination about her marriage. It came 55 unchanging. I said "abundance, good sign, everething is going to be well". At that time, I only had Whilhem's Book I, so I didn't read the Secuence where it is stated Feng means plenty of worries. 4 months latter, they divorced.

Ricardo Andree has a very interesting take on 55. He quotes the secuence, about 55 being plenty of worries. And he elaborates along these lines: here the worries are not because lack of options but too many options. You can't have them all, you need to chose one path and leave the other options behind. It is like going to the Ice Cream shop: if you chose lemon, you wont have chocolate. In 55 you need make a choice and leave something behind. This hexagram often comes when you need to chose between your self-development (or self spiritual growth) and somethig/someone else; for instance, you need to chose between your marriage and your self-development, or your job and your self-development.

That's why -in my experience- so many times 55 unchanging comes when one is struggling with a hurtful relation: there is a need to choose either the relation or our self well-being.

Trojina · Apr 8, 2016

I have. A lot of times. The first time I made a reading for another person it was for a coworker. She asked me to do a divination about her marriage. It came 55 unchanging. I said "abundance, good sign, everething is going to be well". At that time, I only had Whilhem's Book I, so I didn't read the Secuence where it is stated Feng means plenty of worries. 4 months latter, they divorced.

...which really doesn't mean 55 always means separation

Ricardo Andree has a very interesting take on 55. He quotes the secuence, about 55 being plenty of worries. And he elaborates along these lines: here the worries are not because lack of options but too many options. You can't have them all, you need to chose one path and leave the other options behind. It is like going to the Ice Cream shop: if you chose lemon, you wont have chocolate. In 55 you need make a choice and leave something behind. This hexagram often comes when you need to chose between your self-development (or self spiritual growth) and somethig/someone else; for instance, you need to chose between your marriage and your self-development, or your job and your self-development.

With respect that is hardly ground breaking. As you describe it his take is pretty much the same as every other take I have come across of 55 in the last 40 years except the version you describe is condensed to a very simple format. Well simple can be good but I confess it is rather frustrating for you to speak to me as if I don't already know that

still there is no reason I suppose you would know I know that but I have been consulting for a very long time, been reading these forums for a very long time and frankly do not think 55 just means people will spilt up in questions of relationship. I Ching divination as I know it is just reduced by that kind of 'fortune telling cookie' format and I have no time for it.

However I am very interested in folk's own experiences of the unchanging hexagrams which is why I put the question to Diamanda. There is a whole series of experiences with unchanging threads, here is 55 http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...eriences-with-Unchanging-Castings-Hexagram-55

That's why -in my experience- so many times 55 unchanging comes when one is struggling with a hurtful relation: there is a need to choose either the relation or our self well-being.

Well why not add your experience to the 55uc thread linked above if you'd like to.

Side note for future reference. I have zero interest in Andree or Weng Wang Gua....or any kind of complex 'rules' for I Ching divination. If people want to know about these things and you want to talk about them that's fine by me but what I'm saying is it's not worth talking to me about them.

Sixth Relative · Apr 8, 2016

Trojina said:
...which really doesn't mean 55 always means separation

Neither me nor diamanda said ALWAYS.

Ok, it seems like you have taken things personally, so I'll withdraw.

best wishes.

diamanda · Apr 9, 2016

Have you seen this many times?

Yes, as I said I have seen this very often.

Tohpol · Apr 9, 2016

springflower said:
I think I shouldn't undertake any action and leave him alone. He will come to me when the time is ripe.

I tend to think this is probably the right course of action from what I've read so far. Seldom do things work out when we force our will onto situations which are still in a state of flux.

In the end Springflower, you must decide for yourself - regardless of the advice from the I Ching and interpretations from others. It can only be a guide. Heartache is a very painful thing and it is obviously very difficult to navigate between loss, desires/gut feelings, the advice of others. Very tricky. But as long as your decisions are based on seeing things as clearly as you are able then I think whatever you decide to do must be correct - even if it results in more pain, or indeed, if it means an eventual return to what you most desire.

To that end, it might be time to take a little break from the Yi in order to allow your mind/body to catch up with things. That'll give you some space to nourish yourself and therefore be in a more balanced position to meet what comes.

All the best

Is there an other woman in his life? Hex 55

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