Hi all,

This is my first post, and I'm very glad to have come upon this community. I have used the I-Ching sporadically throughout the years, though with a recent, traumatic breakup I started consulting it daily for several weeks.

Although I've made many, varied inquiries (probably too many), the large part of them concern specific actions such as, "what would be the outcome if I had flowers delivered to her" or "what would be the effect of sending a letter next week." On the other hand, there were about a dozen times where I asked a macrocosmic question about the nature of my future relationship with this person (i.e. "what is the status of our rapport a couple of years from now", or "what is the long-term outlook for our relationship". Among these dozen inquiries, many of the hexagrams speak of "progress", "advancing", and other encouraging results (16-harmony--comes up three times as a second hexagram after moving lines). This leads me to believe that, at the very least, healing can occur and she and I will be on good terms.

However what startled me was to get the same exact divination, with the same moving lines, twice among these 12 "larger picture" inquiries. I don't know what the odds of that would be, but they seem slim. I threw hexagram 48 (the source), with transforming lines at the second and third places, which move to 8 (union).

The transforming lines seem to indicate that the potential of the well's water cannot be tapped because any container used to access it has a leak, and the waters are "muddy" and therefore avoided. This seems to fit exactly with my situation, as my ex has insisted on taking months off from seeing or hearing from me due to a strong reaction after discovering that I was still in touch via email with older girlfriends (no affair, but she couldn't tolerate my attention being divided in this way). So the well of love and trust between us seem, rightly, to be inaccessible and turbid.

I guess what I am stuck with wondering is if this inhibited potential implied by the transforming lines would change or improve (since they in fact change), and whether "union" could mean a literal reuniting of some sort, or whether there are other interpretations. When a partner decides to move on, and asks you not to be in contact, it is difficult (and unhealthy) to live with hope--especially when she is so hurt and angry. However the duplication of this divination is a curiosity and I am at the very least interested in exploring its meaning...and I guess waiting to see what time will bear.

Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts!

Steve

well.... since you asked dozens time about the matter... it would be useful to know if possible... the firstly asked question and the related answer.

that would very interesting! the answer to a first question about a matter..... is like a time capsule.

hope to help

Patro

Thanks for your reply. The first time I asked a question about the long-term nature of my relationship with this woman, I phrased it in this way:

"What is the outlook for a union between the two of us over the long run?"

I received 46 (advancement) with transforming lines at 1, 3 and 5, producing 60 (limitations), with a nuclear hexagram of 59 (subordinate)...

I appreciate any insights!

Steve

monday... I will answer.. at time I'm out and can't look in to any source.

the odds

the odds of casting any hexagram yarrow style are ((1+3+5+7 over 16)^6 or 1 over 1 for any cast.

the odds ofor getting the same casts consecutively or back to back are ((1^2 + 3^2 + 5^2 + 7^2 over 16^2)^6 = 1 over 801 casts on average.
for symmetrical coin casting its 1 over 1073 casts.

In any group of 40 casts there are (40 X 39) over 2 = 880 pairs of casts. So the chances are that on average any 40 casts will have one cast repeated in the group .?.
about 1 in 45 casts for coins.

I see the Yi as respecting the laws of the universe , mathematics , chance etc.
Isnt that what creates an orderly universe ? I see the yi as a combination of the miraculous & the scientific.

I think in the end science & religion will come together , as human science begins to understand the true nature of reality.

regards pg.

hi,
finally I'm back...........

about 46-> 60 it seams that an evolving of the situation is possible.. and you will trust in it... but finally this will not end in a relation!

line 3 and 5 describe your behavior, your evolution in the situation... they also describe your interest lost for her. your priority change.

probably you'll find my words untranslatable... but it would be nice if you can in future update this post.

hope to help.

Patro

PG - thanks for the statistical information. I use the coin method but throw two coins twice, which is apparently closer in probability to the yarrow stalks than throwing three coins once. I, too, believe that the I Ching is plugged into the operations of our universe, and that perhaps one day science will arrive there. But it's not important if it doesn't, either.

Patro---thanks for your interpretation, but it's 48 --> 8, not 60! Does this change your understanding of it?

Thanks,

Steve

tombombadil7 said:

....................
Patro---thanks for your interpretation, but it's 48 --> 8, not 60! Does this change your understanding of it?

Thanks,

Steve

Click to expand...

I'm referring to this one........ this reading is a time capsule....

tombombadil7 said:

Thanks for your reply. The first time I asked a question about the long-term nature of my relationship with this woman, I phrased it in this way:

"What is the outlook for a union between the two of us over the long run?"

I received 46 (advancement) with transforming lines at 1, 3 and 5, producing 60 (limitations), with a nuclear hexagram of 59 (subordinate)...

I appreciate any insights!

Steve

Click to expand...

Hi,

According to the pertinent lines in the first casting (Hex 46), I'd say there's great potential. All three lines are auspicious.

I don't know at which stage your casting resulted in Hex 48 and the lines thereto, but do bear in mind that without further development the ICs response may be contradictory. By all means pose the question a second time if you're perplexed/confused, etc. Whatever the case, the last line in 48 gives a picture of your feelings for the object of your affections or her own: 'oozing', the outcome of which is usually favourable 'Kingly brightness. Together acqueiscing is one's blessing'.

Another thing, if the Oracle has assured you that you're on the right track in your endeavours, and thereafter you wish to obtain a green light for further steps which would clearly yield positive results the IC may give an off-putting response. It's its way of urging you to trust your own judgment.

The traditional method, apart from with YS is by using three coins.

Thank you so much Patro and Themis for your thoughts. One thing I understand, now, for sure is to use the oracle more sparingly and trust its/my judgement about how to proceed. Relative to my specific case, I in fact had the opportunity to see my ex-girlfriend last Saturday for an hour to clarify certain things. Our separation status is unchanged, and feelings were still too raw, however I see the potential for future change in the relationship (at least from negativity to some sort of resolution), as indicated by the IC.

Thanks again for your thoughtful posts,

Steve

Hi Steve -- Please forgive me for butting in, but I feel utterly compelled to address this portion of your post because it forms the basis of the answer you are seeking:

"The transforming lines seem to indicate that the potential of the well's water cannot be tapped because any container used to access it has a leak, and the waters are "muddy" and therefore avoided."

As you say, right now the relationship is like muddy water. Every time you try to get something from the well you find the water is still muddy. But by continually seeking to get back to the old relationship you are missing something. No matter how many times you try to drop your holey bucket into the relationship, the water is still unusable... So, stop trying to get water with a bucket that is full of holes. You have to repair the bucket before you can get the water you need from the relationship, the well. I don't know what the bucket means to you, but if this were my world the bucket would be ME and I would start asking myself: "what do I have to do to myself to make myself a whole bucket, a bucket able to carry the water from this well... how do I need to change to carry the relationship I want." The repeating hexigram might be challenging you to change yourself before you try to resume your relationship. Just food for thought. Alex