It was a mistake and I have to leave - hex 35.1,2,5 > 10

em ching · Oct 29, 2008

Hi,

Some of you may remember from posts very far back, actually when I first joined this forum, about whether I should live with a group of people that I wasn't sure of - wasn't sure they were real friends - perhaps I'd just imposed myself on them and they couldn't care if I was there or not... My most recent post on the matter was 'A Mistake? '.

Well things have gone from bad but bearable to worse, and now I feel my only option is to move out, either return home and lose my current job and not see people I am close to here (outside the house) and miss out on potential new friendships, which would be a shame, or I could move in with strangers in this same town. Both options will be an upheaval physically, financially and socially, but I can't bear it. I can't stay somewhere where I feel stifled, unable to communicate, put down, resisted and talked about behind my back. I am too old for bullying and life is too short. I also know that there are good nice people out there whom I can have fun with and maybe I should take a chance, because there is no common ground here and they clearly resent me and don't want me around.

Basically this evening was awful as I caught one of them laughing as the other pulled a face behind my back because I said I was too tired to go out, as I work early mornings, but I don't think they realised I'd caught it. So then, in shock though I had been sensing they were bitching about me for a few days but I guess was in denial, I decided, right the **** has hit the fan so to speak, but I will try and salvage any connection I may have with these people, so I went along to the pub where I felt blatantly like I was being mocked attacked and shunned, so I left.

I am now decided that I have to leave because it can only deteriorate. I don't have anything in common with them and they obviously dislike my presence here. But I don't know whether to go home, where there is nothing for me really as it is a small town without friends, or stay here and keep the job I have, though the expense of finding somewhere else, and replacing my room, and then the chance of seeing these ex housemates in the future is high which will be hard, but I guess I could be strong enough to turn the other cheek and hopefully make new friends again here... or maybe I should return home and sit back, but as I said, I'd lose a good job and probably be more likely to dwell and become even more unhappy.

So I asked What should I do???

35.1,2, 5 Progress > 10 Treading

Please, I would very much appreciate general words of advice here - I feel that this is the biggest mess and upset I have caused myself by not listening to my instincts.

em ching · Oct 30, 2008

Just to add, to bring some magic or synchronicity into this sad equation, I put on my i-pod shuffle and in my head wanted to be played a song that would help me in this situation, and it played 'There's no home for you here' by the White Stripes...

A huge coincidence which I was deeply moved by, and reassured to an extent that yes I should move out, but also sad that this has happened again - I seem to be repeating the same cycle, either I can't maintain relationships or I make friends with the wrong people. I'm just tired of feeling isolated, and insecure in my relationships with everyone, though I do feel grateful that I have two friends whom I would trust with my life.

diamanda · Oct 30, 2008

Oh no em ching, really sorry to hear that. However not all is lost.

The way i see the answer/advice is this. Yes indeed they shut you out
("progressed but turned back"), yes that makes you very sad ("progressing
in sorrow"), however, here comes 35:5, "don't take it to heart". Don't take
this personally. These people are not bullies and horrible to you, they are
horrible and bullies fullstop. And tread carefully (10).

Why should you leave a situation that you really like (the town, your job) just
because you've happened to encounter such bullies? And if you think it's you
who attracts them, you're wrong. The world is just full of them, far too full.
You need to recognise bullies for what they are, and then they'll have no effect
on you. They basically are extremely weak people, who only have two modus
operandi. Either tyrants, or sheep. They have no idea about the middle ground,
and no idea about mutual respect and the suchlike. The world is sadly full of
those really weak people. Anyone who treats you in a nasty manner, without
you ever having behaved nastily to them to begin with, falls 'nicely' into this
(large...) category. You need to learn how to ignore them, and not take this
to heart, or personally, otherwise you'll have problems all your life with their
ilk. Ok so they're throwing their toys about in a fit, and pulling faces... i know
it's not pleasant at all. But. Will you let that destroy the new life you've only
just started for yourself...?

It's clear you're not happy there, and that you need to leave. But panic solutions
are not good solutions, not when there's an easier way. In my opinion, the
easier way would be for you to ingore them, not take them seriously, maintain
a "10" polite cautious front - while at the same time taking steps to find another
place, and don't budge and destroy the whole new life till you've found another
good place/house there to move into. They are far too pathetic to let them
destroy everything for you. You really don't need to hang out with them! Enjoy
your room in there, keep your distance, be polite, and keep looking. That would
be my heartfelt advice.

bamboo · Oct 30, 2008

inyour first post 35, unchanging, t felt it was an oportunity to see things clearly in the bright light of day. to stay or go were both options, bt not to base any decision on what THEY think! forget how they will preceive it, just make a choice good for you. forget them and choose what makes you feel happy.

this new reading in light of how uncomfortable you feel, 35.1.2.5 to 10 seems to me to say that progress can be made by leaving. with help, you can find a new place to live and line 5 says you will regain what has been lost.

Don't give the current rommates the power to make you feel anything/or make you stay out of fear of their disapproval. just do what feels best for you. There is a bt of a risk in moving, finding a new place, 10, but it can also imply moving cautiously with careful steps to an exit.

once again, The lines in 35 advise that it can be a good move, someone can help you, and not to worry so much about right or wrong in their eyes; you will find what you need.
life is to short to be unhappy and outcast by the friends you have chosen. be carefully polite and simply say 'this isnt working for me, i am going to move; no hard feelings.

the financial costs are not as important as seeing the truth and acting on it for your own well-being.

in the story of the Ugly Duckling, he made many false moves in his search for the right companions, but he had the courage to keep moving because he knew that belonged somewhere with others who were like him and who could accept him as family

your biggest challenge seems to be worrying about how the others will view you. WHO CARES? leave on friendly polite terms.

bamboo · Oct 30, 2008

i also like Diamanda's post. until you actually get out, learn the valuable lesson that these bullies can not harm you, be independent of them and let their actions be what they are. refuse to take offense, focus on what you do want, and be glad for the experiences that show you what you don't want. cultivate your own self-care and be proud and happy when you leave, wishing them well.

willowfox · Oct 30, 2008

So I asked What should I do???

35.1,2, 5 Progress > 10 Treading

You should get yourself an I Ching book and study it as the answers that you keep getting so apply to you and your situation.

Line 35.1 says you still have your doubts as it appears they don't really like you but the thing to do is to remain calm and not get angry, like I told you before, to hell with what they think about you, if they don't like it tell them politely to stick it up their a**.

Line 35.2 okay, things are not so hot and you feel squeezed by these bozos but again, don't fret about it, just do what you have to do, eat, sleep, work etc, so they are making funny faces nevermind. If they are throwing bricks and knives at you then you would have something to worry about.

Line 35.5 So, stay and make the best of it, don't worry what feeble minds do behind your back, keep to yourself, do your own thing because what is the point of going to the pub and being ignored. You have a lot going for you where you are, there is no point in running away everytime someone makes a silly remark or comment. You must stand up for yourself and now is the time to do it, you got to get tough.

Hex 10 Yes, lots of problems but just do your own thing and not get angry, it says be polite at all times. It does not say to run away but it does say that if you stay and do your own thing then you can make it through the day.

willowfox · Oct 30, 2008

diamanda said:
But panic solutions are not good solutions

Very true, so if you still want to leave then read the advice of hex 33.

meng · Oct 30, 2008

Consider it lucky when wrong people make faces and speak ill of you. It’s an opportunity to advance who you are, like a young bird who is being pushed out the comfort of her outgrown nest.

Trojina · Oct 30, 2008

Em Ching have no time to interpret answers but am sorry you're going thru this. If you get the chance read the story of The Ugly Duckling in the book Women who Run with the Wolves, it may be of some help (not suggesting you're ugly by the way :hug:

)

rosada · Oct 30, 2008

What should I do?

35.1"We ought not try to win confidence regardless of the situation, but should remain calm and cheerful and refuse to be roused to anger."
35.2 "Remain persevering, although..grieved." "One obtains great happiness from one's ancestress."
35.5 "Take not gain or lost to heart" "remain gentle and persevering."

In other words..
35.1 Don't try to be friends with these housemates, but be decent.
35.2 Speaks of ultimately making a good connection - perhaps a new place to live?
35.5 Don't worry too much about the cost of the move, and don't give up your opportunities in the town where you are now living.

I don't think any of this points to you quitting your job and going back to your home town just now, although "obtaining happiness from one's ancestress" could suggest the old family ties. I think you are being encouraged to stay where you are while looking for a more suitable place to live. However, 35.2 sounds like a change may not be immediate so much of the advice is on how to be while you must persever in this uncomfortable enviornment.

Good luck!
rosada

em ching · Oct 30, 2008

Thanks ever so much - all of you. I feel deeply indebted to you all for your wise words which have comforted me when I've really needed it, and inspired me with strength.

I have not seen any of them since last night, but when I do I will say that I am looking for somewhere else, but I won't as you've said, hurry into anything. I need to tread carefully, as moving and committing to another house will require careful thought, but the sooner the better, as I'm going to have to live in a tough and awkward atmosphere here in the mean time, though as you say I will try and keep civil and friendly, though whether they will allow that is another thing.. but I am prepared.. and will toughen up. I feel resolute, and I know it isn't my fault - though I am to blame for not listening to myself - deep down I knew they were bullies who didn't care for me but I was so in two minds - I guess as they say, you only learn from experience. Though I hope to save myself a lot of bother by listening to my gut next time I'm in a similar situation.

I am going home (to my ancestress!

this weekend for some time out to gather my thoughts - the more I can remove myself from the house the better.. The coming weeks are going to be hard but, strangely I do feel liberated (Meng I liked your bird who has outgrown the nest quote - I guess it has pushed me one step closer to knowing myself and acting accordingly - rather than following or relying on other people). I will also re-aquaint myself with the Ugly Duckling story.

Thanks everyone again :bows::bows:

rosada · Oct 31, 2008

Just a thought...I wonder if it would be wiser NOT to mention you are looking for a new place until you have actually secured something, just in case it turns out you have to stay longer than you anticipated.

Best wishes.

diamanda · Oct 31, 2008

I was thinking exactly the same thing as rosada....

em ching · Oct 31, 2008

Thanks - yeah I haven't said anything yet becausse I know it's going to take a while - and it's going to be awkward enough as it is!

Part of the reason why I think things have deteriorated faster than even I anticipated is because last weekend I did not go out partying with them at all because I had to work etc... so it seems they don't like me for who I am - it's just as long as I do as they want... I would liked to have joined in but physically couldn't.... since then it has been as if they don't want me around - but I thought I'd make up for it this weekend by going to a halloween and firweorks party etc but after the night at the pub I don't want to - with them - but if I go home then I'll come back to further dissolution...

I asked should I go home this weekend?

48.2 the well - 39 obstruction

What does that suggest? I think probably that I'd have a better time if I went home and didn't compromise myslef with these people further...?

Trojina · Oct 31, 2008

I find 48.2 often can refer to measures of reparation that don't make much difference. Your motive in going home is presumably for you to feel better. I think your answer says it won't really make much difference. Water is leaking out of the vessell as much as you fill it runs out again, nothing can be nourished in this amount of water. Going home is a little short term solution as no doubt you know. I don't think it will make very much difference to you if you go home this weekend or not, so not a decision to be agonised over.

em ching · Oct 31, 2008

Hey,

ok so I guess it's definitely a hopeless case - I mean I now feel so closed off to them after the way they treated me that night that I don't have the energy to even pretend - I couldn't join in any sort of 'party' atmosphere feeling like this!

Thing is now I've seen a couple of them and they've been nice - y'know but just surface conversation really.. But I can't start doubting that they basically were bullying me that night, and behind my back, because I remember how upset I felt! I can't start thinking I've over reacted...

So ok the wheels are in motion, the vessel is leaking, there is nothing for it but to look for somewhere else asap and then tell them I'm leaving.... I can see no ther solution - it is that bad - come what may - I'll just be 'losing' friends I guess I never had in the first place.

Thanks all

Trojina · Oct 31, 2008

em ching said:
Hey,

ok so I guess it's definitely a hopeless case - I mean I now feel so closed off to them after the way they treated me that night that I don't have the energy to even pretend - I couldn't join in any sort of 'party' atmosphere feeling like this!

Thing is now I've seen a couple of them and they've been nice - y'know but just surface conversation really.. But I can't start doubting that they basically were bullying me that night, and behind my back, because I remember how upset I felt! I can't start thinking I've over reacted...

So ok the wheels are in motion, the vessel is leaking, there is nothing for it but to look for somewhere else asap and then tell them I'm leaving.... I can see no ther solution - it is that bad - come what may - I'll just be 'losing' friends I guess I never had in the first place.

Thanks all

Eh

whats this about 'hopeless case' ? The question was whether it was worth going home (to your parents i presume ? )this weekend for the weekend wasn't it ? I said it didn't make much difference not that your whole scenario was 'hopeless'. Not sure why you are applying the 'leaking vessel' to the situation with your current place, though if you think it fits ? You can't have thought going home for the weekend would fix things where you live ? Am confused.

Of course its worth remembering how you feel isn't always a measure of whats really happened. Hmm I'll admit seeing thats easier said than done, can't say I'm too good at that myself, however it might help if you can see these people probably aren't a wholly unified group against you. People just aren't that organised, and allegiances in groups especially with young people shift pretty rapidly according to all kinds of things. When i was young the one with the car was always incredibly popular.

Anyhow you have to do what suits you. The way i see it if you've paid your money to live there, then why should you move and inconvenience yourself ? The place you live is foremost a base for you practically isn't it, to sleep, eat and wash, not an arena where everyone must get on perfectly and form deep lasting relationships. Personally I think it takes a huge amount of tolerance to live with anyone. If they are now being outwardly friendly thats a good sign, a bit of peace anyway, lots of time for you to figure out what to do next.

Apologies if this advice sounds elderly and patronising...I probably am very old compared to you

em ching · Nov 2, 2008

Thanks, yeah I suppose I could look at the situation practically - stick it out for the remaining months. It has just upset me so much that now I feel that I don't want to talk/ be friends/ have fun or anything with them - let alone live with them and have to see them everyday! My room is also in a spot where I lack privacy and can hear everything - street on one side, living room on the other - and in the coming months I'm gunna need to get my sleep as I'll be working very early hours in the coming months...

I thought of using this as my main reason for moving out to avoid bad feeling. My prob now though, is that they're being all nice now and acting completely as if nothing happened now I'm back after the weekend, which is annoyingly making me doubt whether they are/ were that bad... I have come away to my room now though, as sitting with them I feel my heart sinking and angry - though I did pretend all was well and make small talk etc - I just don't think I can forgive and forget (I've been through a similar scenario and know that it's probs time to admit they aren't and never have or will be genuine friends). Maybe it's my ego/ pride that can't forgive, but I just feel for once I should stand up for myself and not take it, by extracating myself from the house and their lives, so that I am not treated that way by them again. If they don't want me around I will make it easy for them. I'm sure they, being the insensitive people they are they haven't thought twice about it, but I can't forget the hurt I felt.

I asked the I-ching Should I make steps to moving?

22 Grace unchanging

Or Should I give them/ the living situation another chance?

1 The Creative unchanging

What does this suggest?
Inside I feel like a huge insurmountable barrier has gone up against them and I don't want to socialise with them, ever again, after the way they made me feel.
I know they're not wholly bad people, or complete outright bullies, but they have clearly been conspiring against me - which they made very clear at the pub, and so dismissed me as inferior to them and as if I don't belong, and was stupid and naive to think I ever did, and so I feel any affection I had for them has vanished. But maybe they are sorry - although, eventhough they are being nice etc, inside I don't think they could care less or perhaps they don't think they did anything wrong...

Or maybe I am over reacting... I know living with people is never easy, but I just feel like I've been here before with similar types of people, and I don't want to repeat the same mistake and allow them to put me down again, which they probs will if I stick around.

Willowfox you're right - I read a description of hex 35 in a more up to date book on the I-ching I borrowed and it def spoke volumes about my situation - think I should get one as Wilhelm's translations are hard to decipher sometimes...

Thanks everyone!

em ching · Nov 2, 2008

Could Grace be saying I should stick to my guns, hold my head up high and leave, so that they can't keep on making me feel odd and inedaquate...

And The Creative saying that I should be strong and assertive and thus take action by moving out?

Thanks

bamboo · Nov 3, 2008

somehow, I get that your responses are saying just the opposite. 22 could be interpreted as a cosmetic fix, not a real solution. There could be worse problems in uprooting again. And hex 1 indicates the opportunity to make a new beginning with them.

They are being "all nice" now, so why not give them a benefit of the doubt. Just for your own sake, I would caution you about holding on to hurt...that doesnt serve you in the long run, and it also doesnt allow for any new growth here, which hex one seems to imply is possible. Chalk it up to immaturity, maybe, and also remember that, as someone said earlier, to view them as a group- ie them against you - is to give them too much power. Maybe you could approach it as relating to individuals.....possibly a friend in there, who knows? You stand up for yourself by just knowing you dont deserve to be treated shabbily. BUt holding on to the old hurt only weakens you and emphasizes a victim stance, and actually invites more abuse. On the other hand, if you dismiss their behavior of that night as something that has nothing to do with you, and get on with life, you radiate strength and maturity. Other people's rudeness or insensitivity is NOT your problem unless you continue to re-live the moment and feel victimized.

If you really cant sleep there, that is another problem in itself. If this turns out to be the authentic reason for leaving, it would be fine. BUt dont leave carrying "baggage" of being wronged. That almost guarantees you will run into the same problem again under different circumstances. This all may be a challenge worth seeing through!

em ching · Nov 3, 2008

Hello,

Well after all that I've decided to give things another go - just been bouncy and friendly with one of them again so I guess I'm bagging up the incident and throwing it away - eventhough I do feel that I should have stood up for myself at the time... I hope I'm not letting myself down by putting on an act but I guess they're not all bad and perhaps didn't mean for things to go like that - and moving would be a huge hassle and maybe I can build relationships with them now.. like you said start again.

But if they do a similar thing again I will not let it slide.

Thanks everyone :bows:

willowfox · Nov 4, 2008

There you go, like I said before, you have to make a stand and this is the time, otherwise you would end up in the sea.

em ching · Nov 4, 2008

Do you mean I will end up in the sea if I leave?
Eventhough now again things are fine, on the surface, I just don't feel happy - I'm waking up every morning with a weight on me because i feel like I'm to blame for making this mistake, (can relate to the thread OH NO moments - Big Mistake in Explored readings! The Yi did warn me this would happen...) I just feel like I'm with the wrong people, and it's denting my confidence, though I am enjoying work and getting out in the evenings... but then i'm sure that's gunna make the divide between me and them greater than it already is, and they're gunna resent my presence - which is why I think they'd be better off with someone else, but if I broach the subject it may cause offence which we could never get over (I feel my place of smooth sailing in this house is at a delicate balance)

I asked the Yi whether the time was right to voice my feelings - maybe say I would like a shorter tenancy for practical reasons and do they know anyone that'd take my room - I received an encouraging answer I think:

33.5, 6 - 62 Retreat to Preponderance of the small

With the moving lines saying now's the time for a 'friendly' and 'cheerful' retreat! Perhaps they would be relieved - at least that I'm acknowledging what everyone feels- in that I have no place here really...

Then again, if I bring it up now it may be sometime before I leave - which would be uncomfortable unless they are happy with the idea - but they may feel that I have slighted them? I don't know - does the answer suggest again to make steps towards physically leaving? I'm sorry to go on about this, but i feel I am going against myself by staying.. but I really don't want to make enemies here....

Thanks

willowfox · Nov 4, 2008

What I meant was if you don't make a stand and face your fears you will have no where left to run to, you will end up falling off the edge. The old saying goes, "don't cry over spilt milk", you know, "you made your bed now you have to lie in it".

It is not forever, so slowly get your act together and look for another place quietly, don't say a word to them. Lines 33.5,6 are about a friendly exit but you need to find another place before you can make that friendly exit. Hex 62 is about keeping your own council for the moment.

em ching · Nov 4, 2008

Ok thanks - yes that sounds sensible and less troublesome - I will just ride the waves here and if there's a storm then I will be more prepared and willing to stand up for myself - but in the mean time I know it's a complete waste of time and energy worrying and allowing it to affect me as much as it has done... but I will continue to look for alternatives and then I feel I could leave, perhaps in a couple of months, with a practical reason and hopefully it won't get personal again.

Trojina · Nov 4, 2008

em ching said:
Then again, if I bring it up now it may be sometime before I leave - which would be uncomfortable unless they are happy with the idea - but they may feel that I have slighted them? I don't know - does the answer suggest again to make steps towards physically leaving? I'm sorry to go on about this, but i feel I am going against myself by staying.. but I really don't want to make enemies here....

Thanks

I'm relating to you because of your fear of doing the wrong thing, that your decisions are wrong, that somehow you are just wrong. And i think you'll find ways to make yourself worry about being wrong in loads of situations cos you are carrying the problem with you, its not all out there. If you don't get a clear message from the Yi,( we can help but we don't know the answer) I think you should do what you feel is right, don't place your authority always outside yourself. Thats what I'm on about in the OH NO thread.

Howabout considering everything you've done is right for you. You aren't wrong, you are just experimenting with life. Not everything works out but thats not your fault, its just life.

elizabeth · Nov 4, 2008

I just read this entire thread and have to underline Diamanda's post about 10 bazillion-fold. What she said is spot on and it is very good advice. The world is full of low-life losers like these housemates of yours. They are far below you and maybe it's even to your benefit that they're not cunning enough to hide their rude behavior from you. I dont know what happened on page 2 of this thread when suddenly you said all was OK. People like that don't change and if it seems OK suddenly, I am quite certain it won't last for very long. Personally my advice in this situation is as follows: Start apartment hunting now. Stay in your room with the door closed at home (you're paying for the space, it is yours to RELAX in so try to do that!) and as suggested, put on a polite front when you do emerge. You dont have to be mean or rude or anything but disengage slowly.

I would NOT broach the subject of you leaving the apartment until you have FOUND another place to go and signed a lease. Then give them the requisite notice as listed in your own rental agreement (1 month?)

This isn't an interpretation so much as advice based on the thread.

Best of luck to you.

em ching · Nov 4, 2008

Yes thankyou - I do do myself a diservice all the time probably, constantly needing advice, but i just don't trust my judgement a lot of the time because I think it may be always based on negative assumptions about people, situations, myself... But in this case my gut is telling me that they don't care for me as a friend, mainly probs because I'm different and they are intolerant and insensitive, so I am definitely searching for somewhere else and yes will give them a month's notice - should be ok and not awkward I think... I don't trust them or feel myself here so i feel incomplete, like I'm betraying myself, and yes they probably will do it again - based on my experience with similar people I have no doubt actually. So the sooner somewhere better comes up I will tell them my plans to leave. Until then I will be friendly and join in if I feel it, but if they're rude again, well then that'll cinch it.

Thanks for your help

jesed · Nov 4, 2008

Hi em

I hope not to be rude, but after reading your several posts, I would say that maybe the use of the Yijing is not the best for you; at least, not for the moment.

Best wishes

em ching · Nov 5, 2008

Yes I am completely screwed. i seem to have no centre - no sense of right and wrong. i feel unhappy here but stuck. they are not 100% bad but they were hurtful enough to make me now not even want to be friends with them. Problem is that after the incident, though I was quiet for a few days, I am back to being all cheerful (fake) and it's as if it didn't happen - but i don't feel like I want to socialise with them now, which is going to make them resent me more. So I am going to have to look for somewhere else and just tell them - I just feel numb, hurt and confused inside and living here with people I don't connect with is doing nothing for my stupidly fragile self confidence. I feel I have to get out but it's going to be an upheaval - up-hill struggle. I feel like I should leave town altogether.

I'm sorry i suppose this isn't what this site is for. Using the Yi usually helps, it has definitely condensed my probs here into profound sentences - but when looking for an action plan from the answer it's very ambiguous and of course open to interpretation as you said.... I also have a counsellor - who has given me advice- as well as hearing it from friends and family - but the opinions differ and I, like I said have no trust in myself..

Maybe my best bet would be to come out in the open, be truthful with myself (and them) for once come what may. I couldn't feel any worse than the failure I feel at the moment.

It was a mistake and I have to leave - hex 35.1,2,5 > 10

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