49.1,4 > 39 Help with Interpreting

[mariah kaze]

There's only one post in the archives on this combination and the post confuses me - the answer does not seem to fit the lines at all. I query because I have received this reading twice this week regarding how to attain something which I have set out to accomplish, and on April 18th, 2009, 04:47 AM
Steve asked a similar question. "I asked the yi simply how could improve my financial situation this week."

Willowfox' succinct reply: "You Can't" doesn't seem to fit the lines in the Fan Yo, which I always read first <yes, I do things a little differently than you might have read about here - it's okay, I think>

Hilary's version says:
39: Line 1 ‘Going on, limping; coming back, praise.’
Line 4 ‘Going on, limping; coming back, connection.’

Then: 49. Line 1 ‘Bound with yellow rawhide.’
Line 4 ‘Regrets vanish, there is truth and confidence.
Changing mandate, good fortune.’

I would have said that the changing lines in 49 indicate that the obstacles to change can be overcome and that one is "bound" to the situation even through the hardship and difficulties, regardless. But, because there is a true connection to be made through this endeavor, one can be confident of making the changes needed in order to meet one's goal.

As, I said, my own question and one earlier this week were very similar to Steve's so I am wondering if I am being much too optimistic that the changes I am hoping for, will materialize?

Yes, I am going through a period of lowered self-confidence, I suppose Having the right attitude to making the right changes is rather important in this case and I always get an attitude adjustment by coming here.

Thank you for any input you have.

Chris

 

[mryou1]

So the key idea of 49 (around which the hexagram gets its name) is that Fire fights its way up from the depths of the Lake to invoke a revolution.

And the key idea of 39 is that there are Mountains behind you, and you are FORCED to take a risk and venture through the Water.

When combined, the immediate idea I get is that, to improve your financial situation, you need to make a risky move that you cannot go back on. 49 comes first, and that's a drastic change, then 39 is a forced risk.

Since you're using fan yaos in that way, when 39.1 says Going limping, coming praise I tend to think that means going forth limping what comes to you is praise and encouragement. People want to see, and support, others taking the risks that they're afraid of. This interpretation imo fits with the overall meaning of the hex and the Confucian comments, which say "It is proper to await [prepare to meet friendly or hostile forces]".

But back to 49's lines: line 4 is especially interesting:

Past errors are corrected when you have sincerity. Altering your destiny is favorable.

In the context of 49, it pretty much speaks for itself. Get off the old path and start the revolution of the new.

I don't know what all this means in connection to your financial situation, I don't have details, but all signs point to TAKE A BIG RISK THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK ON imo.

 

[mariah kaze]

So the key idea of 49 (around which the hexagram gets its name) is that Fire fights its way up from the depths of the Lake to invoke a revolution.

And the key idea of 39 is that there are Mountains behind you, and you are FORCED to take a risk and venture through the Water.

When combined, the immediate idea I get is that, to improve your financial situation, you need to make a risky move that you cannot go back on. 49 comes first, and that's a drastic change, then 39 is a forced risk.

Since you're using fan yaos in that way, when 39.1 says Going limping, coming praise I tend to think that means going forth limping what comes to you is praise and encouragement. People want to see, and support, others taking the risks that they're afraid of. This interpretation imo fits with the overall meaning of the hex and the Confucian comments, which say "It is proper to await [prepare to meet friendly or hostile forces]".

But back to 49's lines: line 4 is especially interesting:

Past errors are corrected when you have sincerity. Altering your destiny is favorable.

In the context of 49, it pretty much speaks for itself. Get off the old path and start the revolution of the new.

I don't know what all this means in connection to your financial situation, I don't have details, but all signs point to TAKE A BIG RISK THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK ON imo.

My question was what I can do to make my relationship with my man better for me.

A big risk I can't go back on ... Yikes!

I appreciate your perspective on 39. I had first thought "change is obstructed" because I've been thinking that I could not overcome the obstacles in this relationship and that I cannot expect him to change, but that I can't get out - he comes after me - not threatening but begging and apologetic. I always give in.

Even though I've told him that he treats me in a way that causes me to want to leave him and even this place sometimes, I have not firmly decided to go and was hopeful from this reading that I could get an Idea whether the relationship could change for the better.

You honestly think the Yi is telling me that to leave him would be the big risk that I can't go back on and that I should take that risk?

Very scary because financially, I can just barely make it on my own here, with my family. To leave ... I guess what I'm really hoping is that he will understand what I need and change what he's doing to make me feel like leaving him. "Past errors will be corrected".

Relationships are difficult. If this was finances, I'd know what to do, go ALL In - but, I don't know if this means go all in and move away or if it means go all in and stay, hoping that we will work this issue out. He is selfish with/to me and I just can't deal with it sometimes. He was raised as an only child and this man is spoiled! He wants to marry me - is that the BIG Risk I can't go back on?

I love him but I won't take his verbal disrespect of me. Sometimes, I don't even think he's aware that he's doing it. But, I do and it's causing me to feel resentful of him. So far, talking only makes a small, short-term improvement and then we lapse again. When I wrote this, I was SO over him. Is that the path the Yi is telling me to take - get over him?

What's even more frustrating is that I have to ask these questions of others because suddenly, I don't understand the Yi's messages - I keep second-guessing this meaning.


Stay or go? Does this reading tell me? Thank you for your help.

Chris

 

[angelatlantis14]

My question was what I can do to make my relationship with my man better for me.

<snip>


Stay or go? Does this reading tell me? Thank you for your help.

Chris

Hi Chris,

before giving my interpretation of this readying, let me make clear that I am not telling you either to stay or to go - that is a decision only you can make, and presumably on more than just a single I ching reading
I can only tell you how I would interpret this answer had I gotten it for this question..

That being said, if I had recieved it I would take it as an encouragement to make a change.
the context of your reading is 39 which fits with what you wrote about the current situation in your partnership where you do feel obstructed by your partners inconsiderate behaviour to you. The text says "The southwest furthers. The northeast does not further." The sourthwest stands for a retreat, the northeast for advance. So the general tone here is, retreat, don't advance. It may mean that you need to retreat from your partner now, in order to get back into a more positive relationship with him or someone else later ("This requires the will to persevere just when one
apparently must do something that leads away from his goal.")
Your primary hex is 49 and that speaks of radical change. However, the change should only be made after due deliberation Line 1: ("Changes ought to be undertaken only when there is nothing else to be done. Therefore at first the utmost restraint is necessary. One must becomes firm in one's mind...") Then, and only then is the "change in government" (Line 4) successfull.

So in summary I would say this could mean prepare yourself for retreating from this relationship now, but give the decision due diligence and act only after having considered all the implications. You may need to reatreat now in order to advance later, which could mean a successful relationship with either the same man or another. In any case, your actions will have a profound change onto your life.

Again, let me stress that this is the message I am getting from the reading, and not a recommendation for your further actions - that is for you to decide.

best wishes

maui

 

[mariah kaze]

Hi Chris,

before giving my interpretation of this readying, let me make clear that I am not telling you either to stay or to go - that is a decision only you can make, and presumably on more than just a single I ching reading
I can only tell you how I would interpret this answer had I gotten it for this question..

That being said, if I had recieved it I would take it as an encouragement to make a change.
the context of your reading is 39 which fits with what you wrote about the current situation in your partnership where you do feel obstructed by your partners inconsiderate behaviour to you. The text says "The southwest furthers. The northeast does not further." The sourthwest stands for a retreat, the northeast for advance. So the general tone here is, retreat, don't advance. It may mean that you need to retreat from your partner now, in order to get back into a more positive relationship with him or someone else later ("This requires the will to persevere just when one
apparently must do something that leads away from his goal.")
Your primary hex is 49 and that speaks of radical change. However, the change should only be made after due deliberation Line 1: ("Changes ought to be undertaken only when there is nothing else to be done. Therefore at first the utmost restraint is necessary. One must becomes firm in one's mind...") Then, and only then is the "change in government" (Line 4) successfull.

So in summary I would say this could mean prepare yourself for retreating from this relationship now, but give the decision due diligence and act only after having considered all the implications. You may need to reatreat now in order to advance later, which could mean a successful relationship with either the same man or another. In any case, your actions will have a profound change onto your life.

Again, let me stress that this is the message I am getting from the reading, and not a recommendation for your further actions - that is for you to decide.

best wishes

maui

+++++

Dear Maui and mryou1, thank you both very much for your replies. Each of you has helped me to unravel a couple of things about reading the Yi and I'd like to share.

AS I said, I received this reading twice in one week a few days apart, so I realized that the Yi was answering me but that I might not be getting the answer I wanted to hear (often the case when the reading appears over again), the questions being on the same subject.

In the first instance, I was asking whether I could successfully address the question of his disrespect to me. This is an ongoing issue with me and the circumstances evolved as the Hexes indicated.

He and I met later the same day as the first reading, had the night together and then, the thing that drives me crazy with this guy "happened". In the morning, as he was going, he said he didn't know if/when he would be back. It seems he feels the need to detach completely from me between his visits and he *always* leaves me feeling insecure and unsure of him. He *wants* me to feel this way and as thick-skinned as I am, it gets to me even though I know it's a defense mechanism on his part to keep me from "taking him over completely".

I laughed and told him that I was confident that he would be and I'd see him soon. He frowned. After he'd gone, I discovered he'd left his watch by the bed & called him to let him know, willing to take it to his work if he needed it. I didn't notice at the time that the crystal on the watch was cracked and that it was not running. After all day with no return phone call, I asked the Yi what to do about this. I followed what I think I was being told instinctively and called him again, leaving a message saying that I am tired of his being a stingy little tyrant with me. Get a new watch as this one is broken and *don't* come back.

I have identified this as the Risk referred to in 39 and I really feel this way: if this man cannot figure out how to treat and talk to me decently, with respect for the fact that I only love him and let him go without expecting much more of him than a fond farewell, and if he can't see that what I give has been discounted by him and undervalued, then I am done.

Quote mryou1: Your primary hex is 49 and that speaks of radical change. However, the change should only be made after due deliberation ....] But back to 49's lines: line 4 is especially interesting:
Past errors are corrected when you have sincerity. Altering your destiny is favorable. End Quote.

Yes, I believe I have given this change due deliberation and if I am to continue in this relationship, it has to be on more equal footing.

I often think of this line as: change of heart

As I quite often find with 49, Radical Change (Revolution) is that the change we're speaking of is not *that* radical but I think I am asking for a *radical* change here. What's more telling is that *I* have made the change already - it's not coming in the future and it was not about whether he would change. The change in MY attitude is what the Yi is referring to in the first reading and whatever part of *me* that connects on the spiritual level with the Yi, guided me to make that phone call. A Big Risk - he won't come back. Well, if he doesn't, I'm now prepared for that too because I realize, I haven't lost much if what I want is just not there.

It was the second rendering of this reading that prompted me to ask for help here. When I got it again, I was sure I had mistaken the meaning of the first reading. That insidious self-doubt crept over me. What if I had done just the WRONG thing to make progress in our relationship but I read from you, "persevere just when one apparently must do something that leads away from his goal" and I know not to give up hope, just yet. There is a possibility that he will sit and talk and make a better effort, I think, after some time passes and he has a chance to let what I've said sink in.

Meanwhile, as you say, I have taken a retreat both from him and from the Yi as you both advise. Have made no more castings as I think I'm also told here that the outcome is not up to me - I can't create it and not to stress myself by asking until I'm confused. Both of you have helped tremendously in tying these readings together and alleviating a small sense of "panic" within, that I have finally run him off instead of bringing him closer, as is my ultimate intention.

I will post as events develop further although from past experience with this guy, I expect it to be a while before he contacts me again. He's pouting right now and he doesn't miss me yet so I won't hold my breath. He will try to hold out for me to call him and that's where I will ask the Yi for further advice - when the need arises. Thank you both. You have helped me. :bows:

Chris

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Chris,

thank you very much for this detailed update I wish you all the best.
I once had a partner that sounds similar to your's - when I was treating him cold and dismissive, he'd try to win me back with all means, but when I treated him well, he 'needed his space' and did many things (as you describe) to make sure I knew I wasn't his first priority. They were often pretty ridiculous (like coming to a date with unwashed hair) , but hurtful to me...
Because of the changing nature of our relationship I had a hard time making a clean break. It only happened after I had to go to the US for a couple of weeks for my company and was forced to stay away!
That doesn't mean I want to dicourage you, your situation and partner probably differs in many ways from my experience, and the outcome may also be entirely different. But still, keeping your distance for now sounds like a good plan. If he really cares about you and your relationship it will force him to think and make some decisions! After all, if there was no interest on his side, he would not keep coming back. Again, all the best of luck, may you find true happiness either with this guy or another

maui

 

[mariah kaze]

I can't see this reading saying anything but turn back (39), don't try and make it better (49.1), at least right now, and totally change your own attitude. I wonder if line 4 could be showing his response to your retreat. I dunno... Either way, sounds like your energy would be wasted there now. But I think you have it right. Sounds like a real jerk, and it's sometimes harder to let them go because the emotional injury from their insensitivity. Makes you want to look harder for the person who you used to know. Sorry to hear it, but unfortunately bad boyfriends are epidemic nowadays. Find comfort that you are not alone

Thank you for the hug and have one back.

And yes, we have it right, he's a jerk <sorry but he's a *Man*> and it's time to at least take a vacation from him, while I allow new creativity to build. I've done well today. Cleaned the refrigerator, ripped some CD's into my music library then started a new novel. I did not sit and pine

It's snowing hard outside and I've got my animals cuddled up with me; what comfort they are, so truly and gratefully, I am not alone I am much more at ease this evening over all of it. Tranquil even. Tells me I'm doing the right thing - at least for myself.

Thanks for your followup. I have not yet felt any compulsion to ask more of the Yi as I think I have plenty of time to fill yet before the completion of the cycle. But, it will come to me ...

Line 4 "Good luck, promotion, and success are indicated, especially if you are now in a humble position or living a quiet life." The Divination Foundation I Ching - just downloaded to my Kindle and browsing through it. ! I do so love the Yi.

So, to all a good night.:bows:

Chris

 

[mariah kaze]

Thank you for the hug and have one back.

Thanks for your followup. I have not yet felt any compulsion to ask more of the Yi as I think I have plenty of time to fill yet before the completion of the cycle. But, it will come to me ...

Line 4 "Good luck, promotion, and success are indicated, especially if you are now in a humble position or living a quiet life." The Divination Foundation I Ching - just downloaded to my Kindle and browsing through it. ! I do so love the Yi.

So, to all a good night.:bows:

Chris

A small, but I think relevant followup here. Today, I asked: What are his intentions towards me now? 49.1,3,4,5 > 2

There has been a small progression in thinking, whether his or mine, it's hard to say because I read Line 5 in my new copy of The Divination Foundation I Ching as:

"Fortune favors the bold, and the stout of heart. Go ahead and make the necessary changes; you know what to do. Don't stand on ceremony, don't consult the oracle, don't call home for advice: Just do it! You will meet with success. Fear not."

Hilary's line 5 also bodes good fortune.

I read that with 4 lines moving, I should also read (same source) the topmost unmoving line.

Line 6
The major objective is reached, and only the fine-tuning remains. Although you may see limitations in the new set of conditions, you must not fall into a boring funk by striving for perfection. Try to find satisfaction in what is now possible. The happiest person is the one who passionately desires what he or she already possesses.

The text for this Hex ends with "Combat between forces of dark and light are cyclical; one can become aware of these cycles and master them by preparing in advance. In periods of drought, even wild storms are preferable to yet another sunny day. A new season awaits."

Now, somebody bash me in the head

Looks to me like I will get *part* of what I want, it will be a good compromise for us both and I will probably be the one to "lower my standards" and effect the compromise somewhat. It doesn't have to be perfect but it has to be a genuine effort (on both our parts) and it will probably work - at least for a while.

Still, it's not time for any action on my part, I feel.

Critique Please. I like this new book and it does't seem to stray far from Hilary's interpretation either, huh?

Chris

 

[mariah kaze]

Another one! It's the only reason I'm posting - to document this string of Hex 49. answers from the Yi.

Yesterday, I finally asked again : Yi, what direction should my thoughts of Dave take? 49.3,4 > 3 Hex 3 is big change, growth, potentially.

I don’t know what to think of this? 49 again?

Line 3
Initiating action at the present time might well bring negative results.
Haven't thought of any action to initiate so....

Line 4
Waiting upon change? What change?


3 > A new beginning? Is difficult to begin with?

Somebody please, give me a good followup question for the Yi - what do *I* need to ask about change? ( I already asked what I need to change - 5 patience)

Am I to patiently wait for a change? What choice do I have LOL !!

Chris (blind as a bat where my own readings are concerned)

 

[angelatlantis14]

Another one! It's the only reason I'm posting - to document this string of Hex 49. answers from the Yi.

Yesterday, I finally asked again : Yi, what direction should my thoughts of Dave take? 49.3,4 > 3 Hex 3 is big change, growth, potentially.

I don’t know what to think of this? 49 again?

Line 3
Initiating action at the present time might well bring negative results.
Haven't thought of any action to initiate so....

Line 4
Waiting upon change? What change?


3 > A new beginning? Is difficult to begin with?

Somebody please, give me a good followup question for the Yi - what do *I* need to ask about change? ( I already asked what I need to change - 5 patience)

Am I to patiently wait for a change? What choice do I have LOL !!

Chris (blind as a bat where my own readings are concerned)

Hi Chris

Hex 49 is about overthrowing the old - whatever your thoughts about this guy are right now, you need to change them radically This is necessary in order for a new cycle to start, and for you to find confirmation of your personality (On your own day you are believed.)

LIne 3 to me does not say that inaction would be good - it says that if action has been duly and repeatedly considered, and be found to be the only course of action, it should be done. The important thing is that you yourself buy into the change and stand unreservedly behind it - so don't do anything you are not really in your heart sure about.

LIne 4 supports that - where do you see that this talks about waiting? To me it is a direct continuation of line 3 : "Remorse disappears. Men believe him. Changing the form of government brings good fortune."

Hex 3 is telling you that while the radical change of 49 will be quite difficult to live with at first, but will have good fortune in the end.

So overall, I'd say this means, think about your situation in-depth one more time - and when you have come to a conclusion, act on it and don't be afraid if the start is rocky, it will work out (better than you expect) in the end.

hope this helps!

maui

 

[mariah kaze]

Hi maui,
Sorry, this is long.

Thanks for your response. Am still coming up with this reading in regard to this matter:
49.3,4 > 3 was on last Friday. Sunday morning he called and asked if I was still "pissed off' at him. I said no, but that we have to have a talk. He said he'd see me in a couple of days and I haven't heard since. ! I'm not really surprised.

I sent a long post here last night (which appears not to have posted) about this and then did another reading. I don't know why the post didn't show up but it may be a good thing because I was TOTALLY wrong, it appears. I have to agree, Maui that the Yi is telling me to change MY thinking about him. Last night's post was a rant about why I should and plan to dump him, gently. Then I asked the Yi if I had arrived at the right conclusion from 21.1,4,6 > 2 - which I posted and sometime it might get here.

Here again the answer: What is the state of this relationship? 49.4 > 63 !!!! Change!
Line 4 The emphasis here is on unselfish motives and broad, mature views. Be wary of pettiness and narrow thinking.

Hilary's Line 4
‘Regrets vanish, there is truth and confidence.
Changing mandate, good fortune.’

63 - a perfect balance?

Sheesh. I think I'm working too hard at this! Revolution/Transformation: You will change your mind?

Chris <and I may change it again too!>

 

[mariah kaze]

Hi Chris

Hex 49 is about overthrowing the old - whatever your thoughts about this guy are right now, you need to change them radically This is necessary in order for a new cycle to start, and for you to find confirmation of your personality (On your own day you are believed.)

LIne 3 to me does not say that inaction would be good - it says that if action has been duly and repeatedly considered, and be found to be the only course of action, it should be done. The important thing is that you yourself buy into the change and stand unreservedly behind it - so don't do anything you are not really in your heart sure about.

LIne 4 supports that - where do you see that this talks about waiting? To me it is a direct continuation of line 3 : "Remorse disappears. Men believe him. Changing the form of government brings good fortune."

Hex 3 is telling you that while the radical change of 49 will be quite difficult to live with at first, but will have good fortune in the end.

So overall, I'd say this means, think about your situation in-depth one more time - and when you have come to a conclusion, act on it and don't be afraid if the start is rocky, it will work out (better than you expect) in the end.

hope this helps!

maui

Final followup here. It's been interesting.

Mr. called around 9 pm on Thursday night and spent until yesterday afternoon with me. We didn’t talk a lot but he already knew that I want him to be nicer to me. I didn't push any other issue with him. We both trod gently – and the intimacy was gratifying. We parted with him saying he call when he gets back in and without addressing any of the deeper issues we both know are still there. One brick at a time.

But, we didn't end it and we didn't flinch from talking about my main clearly defined issue: “stop saying you’re not coming back when we both know you will. Stop jerking my chain just to see me react. It does hurt me and I want you to leave me better. Just say: ‘I’ll see you as soon as I can.’” He agreed and followed through. One small success in what feels like a mountain of tests to come.

So, regarding Hex. 49 – for me at least, I think it has proven out to mean that I would consider many options, even go so far as to looking into other possibilities. I did go schmooze around a seniors dating website for about a week but … The devil one knows …. I am chicken! LOL

But, of all the changes I considered, I picked the one that I knew I could probably get the most positive result from. And I have to say, the Yi did have a lot to do with the actual way I handled the situation and because of that, line 4 was fulfilled correctly. All of you who advised me contributed to that too. As you say maui, better than I expected in the end.

49. Radical Change – maybe recognizing and being satisfied with any positive change is also accomplished in very small increments? Thank you.