how can I get out of the depression I'm in?

[hulda]

Hi folks,
Here I am, resorting to your good judgement. Slowly but surely depression has been creeping up in me. I thought I was doing okay last year, working hard, showing I could undertake major tasks. Things went pretty well, but now, it's all falling on top of me. It's like I just can't function any more. My projects from last year aren't finished and I just can't get around to putting a close to them. The new ones are a challenge and I have to coordinate other people, plus do my own stuff. My colleagues from last year's project are angry at me, in part for not giving the right closure. Plus, of the intimate life is a disaster -husband who is sympathetic but just never asks, just gives opinions-, and, in addition, my health is waning. My mother is in bad shape too. I asked the Yi:
How can I get out of the depression I'm in?
The answer:
25
no changing lines.

25 is definitely a hexagram I have never understood. Kind of calls to action, but at the same time points to "innocent behavior". How to understand this in view of my situation.

God will I appreciate your answers!
Thank you so much in advance.
Hulda

 

[lloyd]

A possibility: There is no "error" after returning (24). Life has its fluctuations ...
(Image) in this situation the right people nurture things according to the seasons.
The phase will bring its own learning out of possible confusions (Irregular Order: calamaties).

 

[hulda]

Dear Lloyd,
I am not clear about your answer. You refer to 24, not 25, which is the hexagram I got. Would 24 help me understand 25?

 

[lloyd]

Hi hulda - Sorry for having been too brief. Yes, hexagram 24 proceeds hexagram 25 and as such explains the phase of hexagram 25 (Sequence). 24 may indicate fluctuations in life and 25 explains that we may take these fluctuations at face value (change of seasons in life, for instance). The confusions that arise out of these fluctuations are not caused by "errors" on your behalf, they confront us with new things we have to learn (forming of personality/character).
The reason I came to these very general suggestions is that there are no changing lines.

 

[Trojina]

Hi folks,
Here I am, resorting to your good judgement. Slowly but surely depression has been creeping up in me. I thought I was doing okay last year, working hard, showing I could undertake major tasks. Things went pretty well, but now, it's all falling on top of me. It's like I just can't function any more. My projects from last year aren't finished and I just can't get around to putting a close to them. The new ones are a challenge and I have to coordinate other people, plus do my own stuff. My colleagues from last year's project are angry at me, in part for not giving the right closure. Plus, of the intimate life is a disaster -husband who is sympathetic but just never asks, just gives opinions-, and, in addition, my health is waning. My mother is in bad shape too. I asked the Yi:
How can I get out of the depression I'm in?
The answer:
25
no changing lines.

25 is definitely a hexagram I have never understood. Kind of calls to action, but at the same time points to "innocent behavior". How to understand this in view of my situation.

God will I appreciate your answers!
Thank you so much in advance.
Hulda

Don't take any of it too personally ? 25 unchanging asks us how much of this is really my problem ? perhaps you are depressed becasue you somewhere inside take on your colleagues anger, you mums ill health, unfinished projects as all your fault but probably a good proportion of the woes that beset you now are just life being life...not caused by you and not yours to solve.

25 is called 'disentangling' so it seems a very straightforward answer to your question..just get some of this stuff off your back...and be possibly slightly less responsible, feel less responsible for the bad stuff thats happening. It is said to be a feature of depressed thinking that a depressed person takes on self blame for things they can't possibly control.

Also may be you could try to get back into being wholly in the moment, less responsible more spontaneous. Only think of the thing you are doing at the time...and er stop worrying. Meet things purely as they present themselves.( i think that is what is meant by 'innocence').doing the best you can, thats all you can do....shrug the rest off and make it less complicated, then you might find you have more energy and clarity of thought anyway to tackle whats yours to tackle

 

[bostonian]

Hi Hulda

Since you didn't ask specifics about your life situation (EG how to handle project X) but asked about depression, I assume you suspect this is a clinical depression unrelated to what's going on in the world, right? If so, it's a complex disease, and as such I don't believe the i Ching is not capable of giving you specifics on how to cure it just as the i Ching couldn't tell someone specifically how to change a clutch in their car. . So basically, hex 25 states the obvious. That if you turn to your inner wisdom with empty hands (no preconceived ideas) in other words in innocence, you will know what to do.

Man has received from heaven a nature innately good, to guide him in all his
movements. By devotion to this divine spirit within himself, he attains an
unsullied innocence that leads him to do right with instinctive sureness

However, this is a state we are all striving for, bur on which very few of us are able to attain and maintain all the time.

In the meantime, you might consider seeking advice from other sources such as a mental health professional. To over-simplify, it's a little like a headache. I believe we can use the source of inner wisdom to cure a headache. But the pain is often so compelling, it prevents us from concentrating on anything else. So we take an aspirin to solve the problem and to give us a comfortable space to work on the the spiritual side of our nature if that's what we choose to do.

 

[Trojina]

Hi Hulda

Since you didn't ask specifics about your life situation (EG how to handle project X) but asked about depression, I assume you suspect this is a clinical depression unrelated to what's going on in the world, right? If so, it's a complex disease, and as such I don't believe the i Ching is not capable of giving you specifics on how to cure it just as the i Ching couldn't tell someone specifically how to change a clutch in their car. . So basically, hex 25 states the obvious. That if you turn to your inner wisdom with empty hands (no preconceived ideas) in other words in innocence, you will know what to do.

Hulda said it was to do with what was going on in her world, her job, her partner, her mother. I didn't take it that as yet she was talking about full blown clinical depression.

Why are you so certain the Yi cannot give us specifics.?.it may not be able to give precise instructions on how to change the clutch in a car but sometimes it can give very accurate symbolic representation of solution to a practical problem. Once again i refer to Knots example of taking 44 to mean jump starting his car..and it worked. I recently asked if i would need a filling or a crown on a tooth (huge price difference) and i got 14.6 which clearly even by the look of the hexgram, sovereignity, the last line all said 'crown' to me and crown it was. The Yi can talk to us outside of the text..but actually i think you yourself gave lots of examples of that kind of thing

In the meantime, you might consider seeking advice from other sources such as a mental health professional. To over-simplify, it's a little like a headache. I believe we can use the source of inner wisdom to cure a headache. But the pain is often so compelling, it prevents us from concentrating on anything else. So we take an aspirin to solve the problem and to give us a comfortable space to work on the the spiritual side of our nature if that's what we choose to do

maybe, i just can't think of anything less 25ish than seeking help from a mental health proffessional

 

[hulda]

Hi Trojan and Bostonian:
First of all, just having sympathetic outsiders, knowledgeable about the Yi, giving their opinion, is already a great source of relief. Trojan, you're right, I really don't think I need help from a mental health professional. It's clear to me where I have gone wrong: just NOT closing up projects, being paralyzed about it, and just not being able to concentrate on the step by step needing to get out of the rut I'm in. I have begun to feel I just am not able to do it. It's like everything around me has reached a point of no return, and making water. A real sinking ship. Professional, economic, emotional, etc. aspects, all with a problem which I have created in some way, and just not being able to get out of the rut I'm in.
I think you're right about focusing, taking one step at a time, not feeling responsible for everything around me. I think you're right about this being the Yi's advice. I am somewhat scared of that because everytime I've said to myself: Oh, I'm doing my best, and things will work themselves out, it's like people sensed that and got angrier at me. So I'm just scared of not taking on all of the responsibility.
I will try this week, as January sets in, and life takes on more of a routine, to work very hard, with very clear tasks, trying, one step at a time, to get out. Actually, to be quite frank I DO feel I am NOT responsible, as I know how hard I have been working, trying to make sure everybody felt good about the conference I participated in organizing. I actually feel that my colleagues are misinterpreting the situation and are venting off their anger at me. I feel I can't defend myself and I can't figure out how to have them understand that. Maybe that's what's made things so complicated!

Anyway, if you have more good advice on 25 and how it can assist me on this endeavor, I would really appreciate it. As I said, just being able to get some outsied opinions is extremely helpful.
Thanks!

 

[hulda]

Hi hulda - Sorry for having been too brief. Yes, hexagram 24 proceeds hexagram 25 and as such explains the phase of hexagram 25 (Sequence). 24 may indicate fluctuations in life and 25 explains that we may take these fluctuations at face value (change of seasons in life, for instance). The confusions that arise out of these fluctuations are not caused by "errors" on your behalf, they confront us with new things we have to learn (forming of personality/character).
The reason I came to these very general suggestions is that there are no changing lines.

Hi Lloyd,
Thanks too for your thoughts. I appreciate this idea, but I am sooo tired and depressed about getting into similar ruts all the time. In my country this is called "doing good things that look bad". I participated in organizing a conference that was designed for 400 people and when 122 payed the full registration, there were losses, and my coorganizer has decided it was my fault when it is so clear the problem is the general crisis. But is is impossible to talk to the coorganizer in a rational way. This is a source of great pain for me.
Given this, what do you think, how can I "take these fluctuations at face value" and make sure I can get out of the rut I'm in. It's clear I HAVE to act, I just don't know how to organize myself (like that one, I have problems all around me), and I don't know how to handle my relationship with others.
Sincerely,
Hulda

 

[Trojina]

.
I think you're right about focusing, taking one step at a time, not feeling responsible for everything around me. I think you're right about this being the Yi's advice. I am somewhat scared of that because everytime I've said to myself: Oh, I'm doing my best, and things will work themselves out, it's like people sensed that and got angrier at me. So I'm just scared of not taking on all of the responsibility.
I will try this week, as January sets in, and life takes on more of a routine, to work very hard, with very clear tasks, trying, one step at a time, to get out. Actually, to be quite frank I DO feel I am NOT responsible, as I know how hard I have been working, trying to make sure everybody felt good about the conference I participated in organizing. I actually feel that my colleagues are misinterpreting the situation and are venting off their anger at me. I feel I can't defend myself and I can't figure out how to have them understand that. Maybe that's what's made things so complicated!

Anyway, if you have more good advice on 25 and how it can assist me on this endeavor, I would really appreciate it. As I said, just being able to get some outsied opinions is extremely helpful.
Thanks!

it sounds like a tangle...and 25 is Disentangling. Maybe you shouldn't even try to defend yourself if it gets you snagged up in the whole blame scenario and takes up your energy and just gives you one more complication to think about. I think anything that draws you into schemes and plots about how to work things out is to be avoided with 25.

When things get impossible and you can't win whatever you do depression is virtually a natural reaction. Even with animals i read somewhere that if an animal can't reach a goal whatever it does (in an experimental situation) it soon becomes listless and apathetic.

You can only do what you can do, perhaps you could try to disengage inwardly from their blame and just get on with things....

theres lots of issues you described in the first post..you got 25 as an overview about dealing with the depression, and i like that answer. But you may need to ask further questions about each area of concern, how to deal with colleagues etc etc you may find one issue bothers you more than all the others and is kindling the depression

 

[bostonian]

Why are you so certain the Yi cannot give us specifics.?.it may not be able to give precise instructions on how to change the clutch in a car but sometimes it can give very accurate symbolic representation of solution to a practical problem. Once again i refer to Knots example of taking 44 to mean jump starting his car..and it worked. I recently asked if i would need a filling or a crown on a tooth (huge price difference) and i got 14.6 which clearly even by the look of the hexgram, sovereignity, the last line all said 'crown' to me and crown it was. The Yi can talk to us outside of the text..but actually i think you yourself gave lots of examples of that kind of thing

maybe, i just can't think of anything less 25ish than seeking help from a mental health proffessional

Trojan, just responding to these statements, and not to your situation, Hulda, which i obviously mis-judged. I definitely agree that the I Ching has given very specific advice. I just meant (and said) that I don't think it can provide specific advice (IE instructions) on very complex issues such as treating clinical depression or changing the clutch of a car.

I also agree that seeking help from a mental health professional is not very 25ish. I was just saying that one with depression might have trouble following the advice in 25 and in the meantime might seek professional help until his/her mind is in a calmer place and can work on finding the internal source of wisdom.

 

[Trojina]

I get ya

 

[ginnie]

It's clear I HAVE to act, I just don't know how to organize myself (like that one, I have problems all around me), and I don't know how to handle my relationship with others.

For the sake of your self-esteem, which has taken a lot of hits lately, I would get going finishing off those projects, which at this time are still incomplete. One step at a time.

 

[ginnie]

When things get impossible and you can't win whatever you do depression is virtually a natural reaction. Even with animals i read somewhere that if an animal can't reach a goal whatever it does (in an experimental situation) it soon becomes listless and apathetic.

You can only do what you can do, perhaps you could try to disengage inwardly from their blame and just get on with things....

Yes, that's what I think, too. Let them blame whomever they want. Just don't get involved in that blaming mess. Maybe you could think of a way to visualize that you are immune to what everybody else says and does . . .

I'm wondering if something happened that sort of threw you for a loop at some point, that was a real shock and led directly to a state of "I can't deal with this anymore." Maybe it was learning that the conference lost a lot of money. Well, if the losses of money did not come out of your pocket personally, perhaps you can just complete your part and then you'll be free and clear to step away from the whole thing.

 

[maremaria]

Hulda I sympathize you, I think I can understand you.

Looking at Bradford’s Comments and key words among others words you can read falseness, erroneous, expectation etc. And he calls 25 “Without pretense”

I was wondering if your colleagues expectations are as they are , because they can’t understand the difficult times you are now and expect more than you really offer at the moment. Its not easy to say in the workplace “I can’t do that” but when we say “I’ll do it” we have some responsibility for the outcome.

Please don’t take me wrong, I’m not saying its your fault. I ‘m just saying how clear to them is how much can you offer now? Perhaps Yi says that you have to be more open to them and ask them to help you, to delegate parts of your work to them.

The commentaries say “ in harmony with the time”. It seems that at the moment some help from other could be used for the work to be done and for your health's sake .

I have been in your place and i'm still there. My performance was failing because i was too tired but it was not easy to accept that i couldn't perform as i used to do in the past. And it took me sometime to fo to my collegues and say to them " I can't do it, if you want the job to be done, you have to help". When i see sometime the way they do it, i'm like and but slowly I have tried to ingore it


Take care

Maria

 

[meng]

"The best remedy is to make your own body and soul safeproof. Connect your soul to heaven and nature instead of human matters. Live the fullness of a natural and open life, allow your soul to go deep and high, do not stay on the common road where everything is mediocre. Enjoy beauty and happiness, energy and love, so sorrow and fears cannot get hold on you. Where everything is full of life, decay can find no place." ~ LiSe 25

One thing I'm quite confident of: depression never leaves so long as one continuously affirms it and calls it their own.

 

[hulda]

hi Ming,
thanks for the post. Thanks for LiSe's text, very comforting and good to go by. I do want to say, though, that depression is not something I delve in and enjoy. But it is a symptom and I don't believe in not admitting to it. Not admitting it was part of what was freezing me. It was not a "self pity" trip.
BTW I am taking things in stride. Getting positive feedback from people around me, feeling that I am performing well, is a good thing. I hope to be able to give all of you the outcomes of taking 25 as you have assisted me in interpreting it.

 

[meng]

Hulada,

My comment below has some residual thoughts from another related topic thread. It's not meant too personally toward you, just general thoughts.

It's not self pity, it's that we can grow a morbid attachment to the illness, and to reliving elements of our painful past repeatedly. And it isn't denial of being depressed that's dangerous, but denial of having the capacity to be well again. Becoming well takes a combination of true grit and gentle submission.

 

[hulda]

Thanks, Ming. That's soo true!! Being well is what I'm striving for, and, well, I'm feeling somewhat hopeful because some objectively positive things are happening (the boss giving me a positive sign, someone offering to help me mediate with the angry colleague) and I am somewhat (though not totally) able to carry out the remaining projects. I hope things do get better really, and I am feeling that "disentanglement" is the key here.

 

[meng]

I have to laugh. Funny what a little sleep can do. I just noticed we're both misspelling each others names. That's alright, it's the thoughts that count, right?

Depending on others for our emotional stability and happiness is a mixed blessing. On one hand, receiving recognition affirms our self-worth. On the other hand, not receiving it then feels like we're invisible, or even worse, an obstruction.

So, who makes the first move: the others whom we rely on, or we ourselves? If emotional stability has anything to do with it, it has to come from within ourselves. Then others can rely on us. And that's when good things can happen.

 

[hulda]

mEng,
agreed, I believe too that emotional stability comes from within. But I'm definitely one of those "context dependent" people. I am now becoming more and more aware of the enormous impact I'm having on those around me (for the better). My whole "system" has been falling apart though. In any case, I really appreciate your thoughts! I wish I could contribute to other's concerns. Just don't feel ready yet!