What do humans require to feel spiritually fulfilled?

[susieq777]

Hi all,

I lurk here most of the time, but I so appreciate this forum and refer to it every day for the wisdom that's here.

I've just been reading an article about the creepy cultish religious elements of idenrity politics and got to feeling sorry for us humans. We're in the midst of so much change and turmoil at the very time when the meaningless of modern life is draining us all in some ways. Is it surprising, in an era of devolution, that all our tribes have devolved to cults?

So I asked Yi, "What do humans require to be spiritually fulfilled?" The answer – 23UC – at first disappointed me (I think I wanted something fluffy and inspiring with a three-line answer brilliantly suggesting a three-step process to Nirvana). But the longer I think about it, the more brilliant the answer is (and a little daunting too).

Everything we need is here, where it's always been, under the noise and the tumult. We don't need to go out and get anything. We need to strip ourselves of all the things we use to paper over the void in order to be able to dive in to what feels like loss but is instead a whole world.

At any rate, to gain we must give up, just as the carpenter said. To be re-enchanted we must let go of the things we've gathered round ourselves to placate our disenchantment.

Or something like that anyway

Is there anything anyone else sees here in this 23UC answer?

 

[moss elk]

I think 23 is widely misunderstood.

I'll offer a different take,
one that coincides with the teachings of many traditions.
Look at the Image:
Superiors, accordingly, are generous to subordinates Confirming their positions

We are fufilled by giving to others.
By helping those 'beneath' us.

Stretch this to apply to anyone in need,
who is less fortunate, children, subjects, the elderly, have two legs? help someone with none, someone is ignorant? teach, someone is lonely? give them some of your time...etc

It's not about self destruction or asceticism or self flagellation or destroying a 'false self' one may have built up. (though that last one is a worthy cause for another thread)
The giving up = giving to others.

 

[marybluesky]

Hello;

What an interesting question!

As for 23 in general, I used to think it was scary, however after some experiences I've shared in 23 Unchanging thread, I found that's not always the case- could be somehow the opposite: once I asked if my book would be revealed in an exhibiton, got 23uc and it was.

Back to your question, I read it as when the humans rip the outer layer apart & see what's beneath the sourface.

 

[rosada]

What spiritual obligations are humans required to fulfill?

23. Recycle!

 

[Viru10]

Moss Elk's point about the image fits well here. Hilary's translation is: "With generosity from above, creating tranquil places below". To me suggests decreasing one's excesses to give to the needy.

But along the general idea of the Hexagram, it points to transformation as well. Inner transformations and ego death experiences can create more space inside. Buddha points to "emptiness" which is a mistranslation I think that can make one think being emotionally void or clinically detached is the way to go. But it really is a lack of urgency or an absence of desire. No thoughts pulling the mind here or there is emptiness.

When one is stripped of desires that pull the mind 'outside' then that can lead to Nirvana.

 

[ClavdiaChauchat]

Hi all,

I lurk here most of the time, but I so appreciate this forum and refer to it every day for the wisdom that's here.

I've just been reading an article about the creepy cultish religious elements of idenrity politics and got to feeling sorry for us humans. We're in the midst of so much change and turmoil at the very time when the meaningless of modern life is draining us all in some ways. Is it surprising, in an era of devolution, that all our tribes have devolved to cults?

So I asked Yi, "What do humans require to be spiritually fulfilled?" The answer – 23UC – at first disappointed me (I think I wanted something fluffy and inspiring with a three-line answer brilliantly suggesting a three-step process to Nirvana). But the longer I think about it, the more brilliant the answer is (and a little daunting too).

Everything we need is here, where it's always been, under the noise and the tumult. We don't need to go out and get anything. We need to strip ourselves of all the things we use to paper over the void in order to be able to dive in to what feels like loss but is instead a whole world.

At any rate, to gain we must give up, just as the carpenter said. To be re-enchanted we must let go of the things we've gathered round ourselves to placate our disenchantment.

Or something like that anyway

Is there anything anyone else sees here in this 23UC answer?

Hi, I really like your question.

I'd say: we need, and always have needed one thing: change.

Hi all,

I lurk here most of the time, but I so appreciate this forum and refer to it every day for the wisdom that's here.

I've just been reading an article about the creepy cultish religious elements of idenrity politics and got to feeling sorry for us humans. We're in the midst of so much change and turmoil at the very time when the meaningless of modern life is draining us all in some ways. Is it surprising, in an era of devolution, that all our tribes have devolved to cults?

So I asked Yi, "What do humans require to be spiritually fulfilled?" The answer – 23UC – at first disappointed me (I think I wanted something fluffy and inspiring with a three-line answer brilliantly suggesting a three-step process to Nirvana). But the longer I think about it, the more brilliant the answer is (and a little daunting too).

Everything we need is here, where it's always been, under the noise and the tumult. We don't need to go out and get anything. We need to strip ourselves of all the things we use to paper over the void in order to be able to dive in to what feels like loss but is instead a whole world.

At any rate, to gain we must give up, just as the carpenter said. To be re-enchanted we must let go of the things we've gathered round ourselves to placate our disenchantment.

Or something like that anyway

Is there anything anyone else sees here in this 23UC answer?

I'd say it means: break illusions to find the truth. In every century, this is the key to "evolution": stop being illusioned or prisoned in one's mind and life (so, mentally and physically) , as centuries of slavery actually confirm. But, what I also read is that no violence is needed in this, but only adaptation to what the circumstances offer. This is no human decision, but temporary condition.

 

[susieq777]

I so love these answers. Thank you all for posting

 

[moss elk]

I so love these answers. Thank you all for posting

Susieq,
look at this other 23 thread:

Where should I look for a good job? 23.5>20

I intend to quit my current job for a better one with a regular, preferably higher payment & a better use of my abilities- to say, foreign languages, writing, working with texts. I've been sending my resume to different employers on job searching websites since a few months, and had been...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[radiofreewill]

Hi susieq777,

"What do humans require to feel spiritually fulfilled?"
23uc ~ To transcend Death while still alive.

Speaking spiritually, imho, the imagery of the Hex 23/24 pair revolves around:

23 - Splitting Apart from these Seen conditions for the Unseen (Death)​

~ and ~

24 - Returning from the Unseen into these Seen conditions (Re-Birth)​

We Humans all have the same questions:

23 ~ "Where will I go after I die?"​

~ and ~

24 ~ "Will I return to life?"​

As an inescapable impending event for all of us, Physical Death presents us with a Mystery regarding the meaning and purpose of our lives?

Why am I here?​

And, if all that you believe you are is nothing more than cantankerous Thinking and Feeling Meat, then certainly mortality looks like a hard stop on the you-show?

On the other hand, should you be, instead, the Awareness of the cantankerous Thinking and Feeling Meat, then you introduce the possibility that the 'essential' you, the core you, the primordial you ~ your True Self ~ is actually beyond the distinctions of Birth and Death, Seen and Unseen, Splitting Apart and Returning...

...and, therefore, the primordial you ~ your True Self ~ is immortal, ever present, and whole ~ at One with the Source of Creation for all eternity.

​

When we realize the True Self, we transcend the limitations of separateness ~ Birth and Death and all the Pain, Fear and Doubt in between ~ to rest in the Perfect Peace of Oneness while still alive.

And, the Judgment for Hex 23 gives the guidance on how-to-do-it:

Splitting Apart. It does not further one to go anywhere.

The practitioner is to remain in the witness position and Resist the Temptation to Grasp and Dwell and Story-tell on Objects in the Stream of Their Thoughts...

...in favor of simply being Present to Things as They Are.

When you Grasp/Dwell/Story-tell on Objects in the Stream of Your Thoughts, this is called Splitting Apart, leaving the Seen (Things as They Are) for the Unseen (My Story ~ Things as I Believe Them to Be)...

...and when you release the Objects back into the Stream of Your Thoughts, this is called Returning from the Unseen (My Story ~ Things as I Believe Them to Be) back to the Seen (Things as They Are).

In the absence of Stories, presence realizes its Oneness naturally.

This is the Practice.

So, if a human being experiences the dropping away of mortal Separateness to reveal inherent eternal Oneness, while still alive, then they will feel spiritually fulfilled.

I hope this helps!

 

[Topher]

Split from egoistic desires, what makes humans cling to physical/emotional attachments that isnt what most Iching and taoist answers are about. and hence I refuse to agree with some of the iching's answers(but if you can follow them maybe you can be spiritually fulfilled..). Alternatively you could split from egoism and offer love that is the only thing is not egoist if you are willing to offer everything to some(one) (group of people) but it has to be real

 

[Trojina]

So I asked Yi, "What do humans require to be spiritually fulfilled?" The answer – 23UC – at first disappointed me (I think I wanted something fluffy and inspiring with a three-line answer brilliantly suggesting a three-step process to Nirvana). But the longer I think about it, the more brilliant the answer is (and a little daunting too).

The way you put it almost sounds to me like spiritual fulfillment is something to be gained, as if a product. It isn't something to be gained it's something you lose or it is not quantifiable and it can never be sold.

I like 23 as an answer, losing all you have until you are laid bare to return, 24.

I've just been reading an article about the creepy cultish religious elements of idenrity politics and got to feeling sorry for us humans. We're in the midst of so much change and turmoil at the very time when the meaningless of modern life is draining us all in some ways. Is it surprising, in an era of devolution, that all our tribes have devolved to cults?

But we are in no more turmoil than in any other time in history. That's the lie, people claiming it's so terrible when you could pick any period in history and say the same thing. In many ways we are so much better than we were. There never was a better time or a more perfect time. Life isn't more meaningless than it ever was, indeed the internet means immediate access to meanings we may not have found before.


People say 2020 was a 'bad year' but that doesn't take into account all the personal tragedies one may have had in personally far worse years.

 

[moss elk]

Split from egoistic desires, what makes humans cling to physical/emotional attachments that isnt what most Iching and taoist answers are about. and hence I refuse to agree with some of the iching's answers

Nope, not at all.
You are thinking of Hinduism & it's child Bhuddism perhaps?
(Though if you are possessed by a particularly harmful egotistic desire, or an innocent desire of a harmful thing,
Yi will counsel you to drop it, Because Yi nurtures life. If the desire is a harmless one but maybe bordering on frivolous,
Yi might say, "meh, no blame.")
And having witnessed that you disregard Yi's counsel more often than follow it,
I beg to differ on the reason that you refuse to follow yi's advices. (Being blinded by desire is why)

Yi deals with the real living breathing problems we face
The philosophy/traditions of Taoism are not all the same teachings as in the I Ching.
(Though of course,when the subject is life & reality, there will be some overlap.
Taoism contains many musings of many people.)

The Querents question implies a feeling of emptiness or lack* within them.
When we are engaged in loving work/service to others...
That space (oh let's call it the sacred gland, generator-bladder, a funny name for the heart) is filled with love, there is no longer an emptiness,
as it becomes filled with the greatest joy that the cosmos has seen fit to endow us with.
Make youself like the overflowing well in 48.6, do not cover it up, as it is inexhaustible.
Or look at 42.5;
Be true and kind hearted...
Be assured that kindness is our worth.

The word worth* may be be substitued with value* or even purpose*

 

[Topher]

Nope, not at all.
You are thinking of Hinduism & it's child Bhuddism perhaps?
(Though if you are possessed by a particularly harmful egotistic desire, or an innocent desire of a harmful thing,
Yi will counsel you to drop it, Because Yi nurtures life. If the desire is a harmless one but maybe bordering on frivolous,
Yi might say, "meh, no blame.")
And having witnessed that you disregard Yi's counsel more often than follow it,
I beg to differ on the reason that you refuse to follow yi's advices. (Being blinded by desire is why)

Yi deals with the real living breathing problems we face
The philosophy/traditions of Taoism are not all the same teachings as in the I Ching.
(Though of course,when the subject is life & reality, there will be some overlap.
Taoism contains many musings of many people.)

The Querents question implies a feeling of emptiness or lack* within them.
When we are engaged in loving work/service to others...
That space (oh let's call it the sacred gland, generator-bladder, a funny name for the heart) is filled with love, there is no longer an emptiness,
as it becomes filled with the greatest joy that the cosmos has seen fit to endow us with.
Make youself like the overflowing well in 48.6, do not cover it up, as it is inexhaustible.
Or look at 42.5;
Be true and kind hearted...
Be assured that kindness is our worth.

The word worth* may be be substitued with value* or even purpose*

I don't know what IChing is giving you advices but to me it is telling me to things without caring what I want just giving me the solution with workarounds I dont like follow.I dont want to be or accept to be 54.

---

The Querents question implies a feeling of emptiness or lack* within them.

I have so much experience with this I dont know if should answer this question but. the lack of fulfillment i your life is because you miss something in your life, love could fill it. but other stuff like goods, pleasures, or just short lived experiences is the way the human ego seeks for fulfillment, as ego itself is either part of our spirit or merely a deep layer in our subconcious

 

[dfreed]

NOTE 2/13: I have edited my post here to make it more clear.

Richard Rutt (my current favorite translation) calls Hex. 23 'Flaying' and the hexagram statement is:

"Not favorable when there is somewhere to go."​

I sense a 'spiritual' message here - or a reminder perhaps, that we don't only need Earth's kindness, caring, and the ability to manifest things (lower trigram), but we also need to be still (trigram Mountain above) - that it is not always about doing ('somewhere to go'). And also ....

Here, Earth's caring and manifestations are being held in stillness by Mountain.

And finally, Rutt's title for Hex. 23, "Flaying" reminds me of something the Tibetan Buddhist teacher Chogyan Trungpa Rinpoche once said:

At the beginning meditation [or spirituality] could be regarded as an intrusion, as an extremely painful thing to do, because it takes you away from your habitual dwelling. All kinds of painful situations churn out because for the first time, you create another relative situation, other than your dwelling. Gradually, you gain a new perspective, new ideas from the meditation experience, which show you another living situation other than your own.

So, ... a spiritual path may not be about getting more comfortable, but at times it 'flays' us, splits us open, makes us step outside of ourselves ....

Best, D

 

[moss elk]

but we also need to be still (trigram Mountain above) - that it is not always about doing.

True,
but in 23 the mountain is actively giving
(or perhaps passively allowing, that seems more correct. ) to the Earth/people below according to their need. (as a mothers milk is willingly stripped by her baby)

The benevolent nobles are doing the same in line 5. (where the Images are drawn from) Line 5's are generally like the heart /spirit/essence of our hexagrams.


Another lesson in this thread is about the fundemental difference between asking how to do something, and asking for a judgement to see if it is a good idea.
The querent did not seek a judgement here, she sought a 'modality' 'how to' or 'path',
and the path is seen in the Image,
therefore the judgement in this instance should be disregarded.

 

[dfreed]

True, but in 23 the mountain is actively giving (or perhaps passively allowing, that seems more correct. ) to the Earth

The benevolent nobles are doing the same in line 5. (where the Images are drawn from) Line 5's are generally like the heart /spirit/essence of our hexagrams.

Another lesson in this thread is about the fundemental difference between asking how to do something, and asking for a judgement to see if it is a good idea.

If I were to think of Mountain as 'actively giving' I'd say it is giving stillness, or perhaps the 'gift' of stopping processes, and this is what is needed for a spiritual journey: it is a part of what "humans require to feel spiritually fulfilled" (which was the query).

As to Mountain being 'active', I'm not sure what you mean? My sense is that all the trigrams that are part of the Yi's response - in this case it's Hex 23's Mountain and Earth - are actively participating as part of the reading. Do you perhaps mean something else?

Since this is an unmoving / unchanging Hexagram, I do not usually read the line text, so I did not look at the Line 5 verse. You may approach it differently. Also, in Rutt's translation, 23.5 reads:

"Strings of fish. Palace concubines will be favored. Unfavorable for nothing."​

... and here I don't get a sense from this line of mountain's stillness (or of giving a gift of stillness). Again, this is not a line I'd consider as part of an unchanging hexagram. My sense is, the moving lines are the ones that apply, and they are in my view what I think of as the "heart / spirit / essence" of the reading. And if it is an unmoving / unchanging hexagram, then the hexagrams text - or judgement - fulfills the same purpose.

I'm not sensing a 'fundamental difference' (or what that means really?) - I'm only trying to address what was asked: "What do humans require to feel spiritually fulfilled?" I may not have always stated my response as such, but in looking back, I think all that I've shared is in service to - and hopefully addresses - the question that was asked.

Also, I don't know what you mean, that Line 5 line is "where the Images are drawn from"? Are you talking only about this hexagram, or this query in particular? or about all line 5s? I've never heard of Line 5 in particular being the 'source' of images, aside from my understanding that all the applicable lines and text, and the hexagrams and trigrams can be sources of imagery - that's sort of what oracles do, they speak to us through xiang - the images and imagery ....

And it's through our query, reading, and casting that we know which of these images, text, etc. apply - and are applicable - to our reading.

The querent did not seek a judgement here, she sought a 'modality' 'how to' or 'path',

and the path is seen in the Image,
therefore the judgement in this instance should be disregarded.

I'm not sure what you mean, that the judgement in this instance should be disregarded? By 'judgement' do you mean the verses/text associated with the Hexagram (I offered Rutt's translation)? If so ... since this is an unmoving / unchanging hexagram, that's exactly the text I look at for meaning. So, I don't know why I would ignore that?

Regards, David

 

[moss elk]

I'm not sure what you mean, that the judgement in this instance should be disregarded? By 'judgement' do you mean the verses/text associated with the Hexagram (I offered Rutt's translation)? If so ... since this is an unmoving / unchanging hexagram, that's exactly the text I look at for meaning. So, I don't know why I would ignore that?

Regards, David

The main point of the text below is to stress the fundemental need to distinguish if you are seeking an auspice/judgement/evaluation
or a picture of something.
In this thread, the querent asked for a how/what/way/picture, not an auspice.


1-There is no need to read the Oracle text when you get a reading with a single changing line, because the auspice of the single line overrides the main Oracle text.
(at times completely contradicting)

I assume you are with me on this point.
It establishes the fact that times exist to ignore the words in the Oracle.

2-Always and ever we have to stretch the answer to wrap around our question.

I assume you are with me still.

3-There is no need to read the Oracle text in an unchanging answer when you aren't specifically seeking an auspice or judgement, perfect real experience to highlight this:

A community had a problem with the way something was being handled.
(let's say it was heart surgery performed on a public sidewalk)
A solution was proposed that would move this problem *out of public view*, and then out of public view the actual work on the problem would be done, instead of in the open attracting gawkers who interfered.

A debate started among the decision makers.
position 1-keep doing the work in the open for all eyes to see.
position 2-hide the work out of public view.

A reading was done, what if we hide the work? (actually this is a not a great question, because it borders between wanting a picture of and an auspice)
36 unchanging was received.

Bradford
Image:
The noble young one, accordingly, manages the multitude using darkness, but with intelligence
Oracle:
Warranting difficult persistence

In this example, to move the work out of public view would be to *manage the multitudes using darkness*
This was then done.
It was the correct decision,
it solved the problem without attracting gawkers to interfere. (the people were already inside of a *warranting difficult persistence* thing)

Had the Oracle been used as the deciding factor here: it would have been a message to dissuade from this course of action.
The answer would have said, "doing it that way will be very difficult"
It wasn't dificult, it was as easy as pie and it solved the problem.

So, it is of fundamental importance to be clear in your mind if you are seeking an auspice or if you are seeking a 'how' or 'what' or 'way'.

-Here is another easy place to see my point: Hex 20 un
Image: The early sovereigns, accordingly, examined the regions And comprehended their societies To establish their doctrines
Oracle: A cleansing but not a sacrifice Being true is as good as majestic

If you ask *how* to do something:
the answer is in the Title +Image:
Go Look, understand, then decide.
It's definitely not in the Oracle, the actionable intelligence is not present.

See why I say there is a fundemental distinction between asking for an auspice/judgement/evaluation or picture of a path/thing? Our minds must be clear on this.

 

[dfreed]

1-There is no need to read the Oracle text when you get a reading with a single changing line, because the auspice of the single line overrides the main Oracle text. (at times completely contradicting)

I assume you are with me on this point. It establishes the fact that times exist to ignore the words in the Oracle.

I am not necessarily with you here. If I am looking at a response from the Yi that has moving lines (which is not the case here) I usually let the moving line verse or verses take precedence over the Hexagram statement, but this is not a hard and fast rule for me. If there's something of interest or of importance in the 'judgement' text, then I'll consider it.

2 - Always and ever we have to stretch the answer to wrap around our question. I assume you are with me still.

I sort of, kind'a get what you're saying. My understanding of 'stretching' the answer would preclude the sort of rules you're using in points 1 and 3 (above and below), but that's just my way of seeing. It seems a bit contradictory to me to talk about 'stretching' but then talk about rules (made up by who? when? why?) that must be followed - one precludes the other.

3-There is no need to read the Oracle text in an unchanging answer when you aren't specifically seeking an auspice or judgement, perfect real experience to highlight this:

I do not agree. If I am looking at the text / words of the Yi, I don't feel that it matters what the nature of the question, or query is: regardless if it's an augury (omen), a question (even a yes-no question), a statement, or an exclamation, I'd read the Hexagram's judgement / statement / text if it's an unchanging hexagram.

(It would be a different matter if I was looking only at the hexagams' / trigrams' imagery and not at the text -- taking a non-textural approach -- but I didn't do that here.)

I have never heard of any rule or guideline that tells me to ignore the hexagram judgement for an unchanging hexagram - based on the nature of the query. If you have a source for that rule, I'd certainly like to see it.

Overall, I get a sense that you are finding fault or having difficultly with how I did this reading -- perhaps the 'way' I did it -- but not necessarily with what I said? That I looked at this differently than you is obvious, but I don't see where I did something in error. Therefore, I'm a bit baffled by your posts here about my reading.

As an afterthought, to keep this thread focused on susieq's question, would you consider introduction a topic in Exploring Divination about ??? Rules for reading UC hexagrams, or rules for reading questions vs omens, or ??? (I'm not sure what the topic would be, but maybe you have a better idea about that.)

Regards, D

 

[moss elk]

Oh David,
nothing I said was directed at you
it was all about what I see and what I gleen.


You don't have to understand or agree with anything I wrote at this moment.

But, if you look long enough at the example experience I wrote,
it will sink in.

Happy Friday

About 23, I just noticed something that most people seem to ignore or pass their eyes right over (perhaps Stripping strikes a primitive defense cord in many, "don't strip me, ah!" When in actuality there are occasions of Stripping/giving&taking that we should engage in: mothers milk, welcome & reward able people to help your palace....etc)

but it's right there in the Image and line 5 and it is the essence of hex 23. Any description that misses this is missing the essential meaning of 23.


As far as a thread, it would be titled something like: The most commonly misunderstood hexagrams.
24 & 42 would also make the list.....

 

[moss elk]

I have never heard of any guideline that tells me to ignore the hexagram judgement for an unchanging hexagram - based on the nature of the query.

You have now,
(though I'd say 'disregard' due to irrelevance, rather than ignore)

 

[dfreed]

Moss Elk

David, nothing I said was directed at you -- it was all about what I see and what I gleen ....

Okay, that's good to know. As I was reading your posts, I thought you were finding fault with my method or in what I said in my interpretation. But I gather from your response here that you are only sharing how you approached this reading. Good to know.

Any description that misses this is missing the essential meaning of 23.

This is your opinion (as you said, what you have gleaned), which is fine, but I do not agree. I did my interpretation without looking at line 5, and I think it holds up - it is informative and addresses the question asked.

You have now ....
(in response to me saying: "I have never heard of any guideline that tells me to ignore the hexagram judgement for an unchanging hexagram - based on the nature of the query.")

Okay, ... and I also asked above, "If you have a source for that rule (or this way of approaching UC hexagrams), I'd certainly like to see it." And that's still true.

From Bradford Hatcher:
If a Hexagram had been composed only of Sevens and Eights (e.g. it's Unchanging), this would be the only chapter you would read, and .... You would not be referred to any of the ... Changing Line texts.

That's the general guideline I follow when looking at the Yi's text, and I've heard other authors and teachers say the same thing. But I'm gleaning that you have a different approach if you're looking at UC Hexagrams 23, 24, and 42. If that's your approach, that's fine, but it's not how I approach a reading and certainly not this reading.

And perhaps a thread in Exploring Divination titled 'The most commonly misunderstood hexagrams' would be a good place to explore your idea further.

Regards ....

 

[moss elk]

Okay, ... and I also asked above, "If you have a source for (this way of approaching UC hexagrams),

You sure have a lot of questions,
huh?

My only source is my observation and reflection of my experiences related to Readings.

If someone feels that I misjudged
what Yi was saying in the example,
or can point out a flaw in my thinking
(notice no one has done),
my ears are open.
But, it looks extremely clear to me.

Best,
~m.e.

 

[radiofreewill]

From the glossary in the Huainanzi (Major, et al):

Wu Wei

 

[Viru10]

From the glossary in the Huainanzi (Major, et al):

Wu Wei

That sounds like Advaita/Buddhism

 

[dfreed]

My only source is my observation and reflection of my experiences related to Readings.

Okay, that's all I needed. I have no more questions for you about this.

 

[dfreed]

From the glossary in the Huainanzi (Major, et al): Wu Wei

Thanks. I have never heard of the Huainanzi before. It looks interesting but I'm afraid it will have to go way to the bottom of my Yi reading bucket list.

I'm curious, do you see Hex. 23 as an example of Wu Wei? Or does Wu Wei exemplify Hex. 23? Or is it a bit of both? Or none of the above?

Regards, D.

 

[radiofreewill]

Hi Viro10 and dfreed,

The Huainanzi (-139BCE) is generally considered a syncretist work that draws from Confucian (Analects), Daoist (Laozi and Zhuangzi) and Legalist (Hanfeizi) texts to create an "Encyclopedia of Statecraft" in 21 Volumes, with an intended audience of one ~ the Emperor.

It's a long book, but a good look at a system designed for a new 'modern' China ~ unified for the first time after the state of Qin emerged as the last Kingdom standing from the Warring States Period (475 BCE - 210 BCE).

On a side note: During that 265-year long stretch ~ about the same length of time that the USA has been around ~ 52 Kingdoms were destroyed, including 35 regicides!

The Cosmology the Huainanzi gives in Chapter 2, imho, is very non-dual, much like Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism?

On Wu Wei:

If you were to fan out the 32 pairs of the KWS, in order, with the odd numbered Hexagram of each pair arranged on top of its even numbered partner Hexagram, and draw a line through the mid-points between each pair of the Hexagrams...

...then the trace of that line, imho, would follow the high ground ~ aka, the witness position ~ through Life and be called Dao ~ and its natural action Wu Wei.

So, for instance, let's take the Hex 23/24 pair?

The Unseen (23) and the Seen (24) are alternating with each other through a balanced inversion ~ 23 and 24 are mirror inverses of each other.

Whereas, ego is completely biased towards the Seen, it treats only the Seen as Real, while discounting the Unseen as Unreal, thereby introducing it's own self-interested (desire-based) action into the mix?

The corrective for this bias is the witness position ~ the home of Wu Wei ~ because it treats both the Seen and the Unseen as equally Real, and is therefore dynamically suspended in Stillness with a commanding view of Things as They Are, as a result?

It is from the witness position, imho, that the Oracle's omens are seen as the trail markers of the Way through your life?

I hope this helps!

 

[radiofreewill]

Here's an example from daily life of the Seen and the Unseen being equally Real, but we have trouble trusting it?

David Whyte: Life at the Frontier ~ The Conversational Nature of Reality

The whole video is good...

 

[cyclops]

This is such an interesting reading. Obviously your question, "What do humans require to be spiritually fulfilled?", is the primary frame for the answer. But the situation that prompted the question -- the "creepy cultish religious elements of identity politics" -- is an essential part of the enquiry. I came across an incredibly fitting interpretation of the Judgment of # 23 in R. G. H Siu's marvelous I Ching anthology, "The Man of Many Qualities" : "The decay of the body politic has set in. Inferior men are on the aggressive rise. The time is not favorable for the lonely superior man to undertake anything. The law of heaven dictates cycles of rise and fall, fullness and emptiness. It cannot be countermanded. It is prudent to submit and wait." One of the three quotations G. H. Siu chose to illustrate the Judgment is a statement by the Spanish philosopher José Ortega y Gasset (1883-1955): "That is why I speak of hyperdemocracy . . . The characteristic of the hour is that the commonplace mind, knowing itself to be commonplace, has the assurance to proclaim the rights of the commonplace and to impose them wherever it will."